SICK of BSN Pedestal - page 19

by DUDERNGUY 31,249 Views | 215 Comments

Get off the Pedestal with the whole BSN vs ADN thing. A fact this is overlooked is that ADN does the same job as BSN and passes the NCLEX. Everyone then cried ADN is uneducated blah blah. WHY dont we look at the 4 year... Read More


  1. 1
    Quote from NurseGuyBri
    MOM To 4 - I completely agree with you, well said! I do want to add a few things to this discussion. I'm concerned that people are too stuck on the letters. LET IT GO. RN is the only set of letters that matters right now. That being said, the different programs were created for reasons, and now it's time to consolidate. There is nothing wrong with anyone in the field right now who has their RN to be an RN. But, going forward, things need to change. Why? Because nurses are being popped out like pills in a LTC Med cart... I mean for real, all over the place. POP. pop. PoP. pOp. Nurse nurse nurse nurse nurse nurse. It's time to realign ourselves. We *CANNOT* leave our fellows behind, however. We have to allow those who are experience to continue to be experienced, no matter how they obtained their nursing IN THE PAST. Change is about moving forward. From here on out, we have to go FORWARD. Stop going back!! My old boss is an ADN. So what? She was great and she works as a consultant AND SHE DESERVES IT!! :-) My new boss is a BSN. He's great. He makes good money and? HE DESERVES IT. I'm a DIPLOMA RN with a degree in something non-nursing. I'm great. Guess what, I DESERVE IT. I am in a BSN program. Not because I want to outshine the ADN or Diploma- it's because I want to learn more. That is it!
    All of this being said, compared to other professions, we have to change if we want to stay up. A 2 year degree is a vocational degree. It's a practical degree - An associate of a professional. I'm not putting any ADN's down, I'm saying that is what an Associates Degree is designed for. That's why it's an ASSOCIATES. Can't change that, it is what it is... Bachelor's degree is an entry-level BACHELOR - one who is ready to run, wet behind the ears but full of base theory. A starting professional. That's why it's a BACHELOR's degree. Masters- You've mastered your subject. I could keep going. So, why is the associate degree- the vocational school prepared degree, not for a LPN? The bachelor, the professional, an RN? Makes sense to me. Coming from someone who is a diploma RN, you have to know that I'm not about being better or worse than anyone who IS ALREADY A NURSE. I think we need to stop going back and start going forward. Sorry about the long winded message, I hope the idea gets through.
    Boom! Agreed and well articulated.
    sallyrnrrt likes this.
  2. 1
    Quote from subee
    Oh Geez. Here we go again. A college education is fluffy and extraneous.
    It is. I can't believe anyone who went to college would disagree that they took fluffy and extraneous courses. Like I needed fine arts to be a paralegal, lawyer, accountant, doctor? Please argue that I needed it so that I could "talk up" with similarly educated people, so I can show you a whole butt ton of people who seem to be doing just fine without it.
    sallyrnrrt likes this.
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    When you obtain a baccalaureate degree in whatever you study it's about balance and being well rounded.....that's what you call fluff....I actually enjoyed my classes that were off my major....life isn't one sided and neither should education....

    Sent from my iPhone using allnurses.com
    Laurie52, Tina, RN, and sallyrnrrt like this.
  4. 1
    Quote from redhead_NURSE98!

    It is. I can't believe anyone who went to college would disagree that they took fluffy and extraneous courses. Like I needed fine arts to be a paralegal, lawyer, accountant, doctor? Please argue that I needed it so that I could "talk up" with similarly educated people, so I can show you a whole butt ton of people who seem to be doing just fine without it.
    ^I can disagree...learning and knowing a foreign language allows me to communicate with individuals with various backgrounds, so does history, including art history, allows for examination of cultural backgrounds; Philosophy allowed for the ear of learning rationales and critical thinking. English and Public Speaking allowed me to learn ways to communicate. Abnormal Psych prepared me for Mental Health nursing, and assess how and why my peers and clients utilize certain behaviors....EACH of those "Arts" and "Sciences" courses are the BASE of what you are going to get, the ability up understand the WHY, and that KNOWLEDGE is power.

    I respect the route of ANY education, BTW...my degree is far from "fluff," thank you, and so do most ADN programs as well have said "fluff;"; you still need those courses PRIOR to entering the nursing program or taken concurrently, so each course is REQUIRED. And I started at an ADN program, so the same prerequisites were required, while the ADN program required 200- level courses in about 4 subjects, the BSN covered more 200-level courses in all subjects, and each pathway was beneficial. When I did not succeed the first time due to test anxiety, they welcomed me back, however, I would've ended up doing 4 years and coming out of school with an Associates; for me, it made more sense to me, to get my Bachelors. I had to get my LPN first, which I did; when I returned to school I did two years to get my BSN.

    So to assume that college is "fluff" is missing the point and reeks of ignorance...If one didn't take ANYTHING away from their Bachelors education, that is relative to that person...But for ME, and the nurses I work with, we see the INVESTMENT we made, and utilize each part of it. And there is NOTHING wrong with that.

    Nursing is a profession that has CONSTANT education, regardless of which path. Our scope is changing as far as more complex and sicker patients are in our hospital and our community. It behooves one to be receptive to that education to be able to take on our patients, to care for them, provide resource, educate, and empower them. If one wants to continue to invest academically and professionally in their education, by all means they can do so, it's beneficial for the nurse and the community as a whole.
    sallyrnrrt likes this.
  5. 0
    Quote from LadyFree28

    ^I can disagree...learning and knowing a foreign language allows me to communicate with individuals with various backgrounds, so does history, including art history, allows for examination of cultural backgrounds; Philosophy allowed for the ear of learning rationales and critical thinking. English and Public Speaking allowed me to learn ways to communicate. Abnormal Psych prepared me for Mental Health nursing, and assess how and why my peers and clients utilize certain behaviors....EACH of those "Arts" and "Sciences" courses are the BASE of what you are going to get, the ability up understand the WHY, and that KNOWLEDGE is power.

    I respect the route of ANY education, BTW...my degree is far from "fluff," thank you, and so do most ADN programs as well have said "fluff;"; you still need those courses PRIOR to entering the nursing program or taken concurrently, so each course is REQUIRED. And I started at an ADN program, so the same prerequisites were required, while the ADN program required 200- level courses in about 4 subjects, the BSN covered more 200-level courses in all subjects, and each pathway was beneficial. When I did not succeed the first time due to test anxiety, they welcomed me back, however, I would've ended up doing 4 years and coming out of school with an Associates; for me, it made more sense to me, to get my Bachelors. I had to get my LPN first, which I did; when I returned to school I did two years to get my BSN.

    So to assume that college is "fluff" is missing the point and reeks of ignorance...If one didn't take ANYTHING away from their Bachelors education, that is relative to that person...But for ME, and the nurses I work with, we see the INVESTMENT we made, and utilize each part of it. And there is NOTHING wrong with that.

    Nursing is a profession that has CONSTANT education, regardless of which path. Our scope is changing as far as more complex and sicker patients are in our hospital and our community. It behooves one to be receptive to that education to be able to take on our patients, to care for them, provide resource, educate, and empower them. If one wants to continue to invest academically and professionally in their education, by all means they can do so, it's beneficial for the nurse and the community as a whole.
    Well said!

    Sent from my iPhone using allnurses.com
  6. 0
    Quote from alicia125

    Well said!

    Sent from my iPhone using allnurses.com
    Thanks, so was your post!
  7. 1
    Quote from LadyFree28
    So to assume that college is "fluff" is missing the point and reeks of ignorance...
    Yes, because that's exactly what I said, that "college is fluff." Except it wasn't. And I have an associates, bachelor's and a doctorate degree. And there was plenty o fluff. It's so funny how we all "need" these classes that weren't "needed" 20 years ago! But no, no unnecessary classes in there at all.
    Nurse Leigh likes this.
  8. 0
    Healthcare /nursing/medicine hasn't changed at al in the past 20 years.
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    While I agree that the future of nursing entry should be a BSN, to remain competitive. I do not agree that the ADN is an inferior education...in most cases. The economy has produced inferior for profit schools (I know your for profit school is excellent) that are all about the money and could care less about the education....in my honest opinion have single handedly dumbed down the nursing curriculum and requirements....all for the mighty dollar.

    My college ADN program......from a long time ago.....was BRUTAL. I went to school from sun up to sun down. I had micro, biochem, pharmacology, ethics and legalities (all separate classes). Today......They have dropped the ADN program all together. It is now....the accelerated BSN program...... class per class. This is my personal experience.

    I have a BSN. But it didn't make me a better nurse.....per se. I tire of this argument/debate time and time again for the las t 34 years....over and over again...it drive me NUTS!!!!!!!!! This is why I should just stay out of the conversation.....

    I don't know why we as a profession must constantly bicker and brow beat each other with this nonsense. If the BSN edcuation is so superior then we as nurses should do the right thing and stop the ADN and diploma point of entry education (even though we all take the same exam) and protect the patients. Obviously it can't be that detrimental for there are diploma RN schools still open and yes they get jobs (I know of one in Indiana) ADN's graduate and pass boards every day.

    If the profession as a whole decides to leave it alone then we need to be respectful of one another and appreciate each other for who we are and what we bring to the profession....and stop with the my education is better than yours.....

    Time to step away from the keyboard.....I just can't stay objective.

    Lets just treat each other as we would wish to be treated.
    redhead_NURSE98! likes this.
  10. 1
    I agree that the direction our education system, in general, is headed is deplorable. The argument about for-profit schools is another debate in entirety, and one that involves all of us.

    As for the BSN-entry, I think that people are fixated on looking at the past when arguing this issue. For me, it's a debate about future not the past.

    Medicine and nursing are changing with more drugs, more complexity, and shorter inpatient stays, demanding more of nurses to practice at the full extent of nursing scope. This includes nurses at the bedside but extends to nurses in educator, research, outpatient, home, and community roles.
    mariebailey likes this.


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