SICK of BSN Pedestal - page 10
by DUDERNGUY | 33,225 Views | 215 Comments
Get off the Pedestal with the whole BSN vs ADN thing. A fact this is overlooked is that ADN does the same job as BSN and passes the NCLEX. Everyone then cried ADN is uneducated blah blah. WHY dont we look at the 4 year... Read More
- 3Jan 16, '13 by happyinillinoisI was an ADN with a previous B.A. That B.A. was a walk in the park compared t my ADN nursing school, and was from our state's Premier public university! Anyway, with all the BSN hoopla going around, I went through WGU and did the RN-BSN program for $4750.00. Do I feel an smarter? No. Does it help my practice working in ER? No. No more clinical hours, no disease processes you didn't cover. It is leadership, theory and public health. But at least now I am a BSN.
- 1Jan 17, '13 by Vines812Quote from sapphire18I studied this in my RN-BSN program. If you read up on the Institute of Medicine's report of the Future of Healthcare, there are certain goals that have been set (along with the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation) to change the face of nursing to be prepared to beter serve the needs of the public in the future. One of the 'goals' or 'recommendations' is that a certain amount (I believe 80%..correct me if I'm wrong it's been awhile since I read the report..) of RNs have BSNs by 2020 (again, if I have the year wrong, correct me.) Other goals in this report include that nurses are actively involved in decision making when it comes to healthcare policies, as well as are able to practice to their full extent of training and knowledge. With this said, this is why they are pushing for more nurses to have higher education- to be forefront leaders in healthcare in the future.Could not have said it better myself, wooh.
I think we have to remember the reason why there are ADN programs. ADN programs were created when there was a severe shortage of nurses in the US. This was made so that the shortage could be easily "fixed" and students could get in and out of school as quickly as possible to work. Now with the over flow of new grads and economy limiting available job opportuntiies, hospitals can be picky.
I think now that there is a preference for BSNs at most hospitals, and the "future of healthcare" is pushing for higher education - one major FLAW in the world of nursing is that there is no streamlined education to become an RN. With LVN-RN, ADN, ADN-BSN, ETC...it was helpful in the past, but now maybe they should fix that. If they are going to require nurses to have BSNS in the future, and if htey are NOT going to hire ADNS, then nursing needs to provide ADN nurses with enough RN-BSN programs that are affordable and available OR provide more BSN programs as a whole.
I am currently in an RN-BSN program. From what I've learned during my program search, they are just as impacted as other nursing programs. Most of the nurses in the US are ADN nurses..we need more programs/space available/financial support..if there's going to be this expectation to return to school. Programs are limited and financial resources to return to school.
I think ADN programs should inform their students of all this info...so they know where they will stand ahead of time after graduation.
- 0Jan 17, '13 by NurseGuyBriI'm sorry, but I don't have a BSN. I have a diploma RN. I have a BA Social Science. The prerequisites, for me, were ensuring I knew how to write like a professional, read like a professional, be inquisitive, truly critically think, and other real-world necessary knowledge. I'm not saying that just because you don't have a bachelors that you cannot do the same, that depends on the person. Isn't a bit harsh, though, to rant about the prerequisites and classes if you haven't taken them? I am a better nurse for it, trust me, read my notes. Again, do not take this wrong- it does NOT in any way make me BETTER than ANYONE or ANYTHING. It's just the way it happens, and everyone should be allowed their own way.
I just dont think you can really pick on BSN's and their "stupid pre-reqs" if your complaint is that they pick on Diplomas/ADN's....
- 0Jan 17, '13 by BeentheredonethatRNSo far , I have been taking classes for my BSN and now have about three classes left. On that note, none of the classes have made me a better nurse-just going through the motions. Also, nurses that are able- couldn't ask for a better time to go back to school- why ? Well, schools are following the business model- " Give the people what they want and they will come ." With the help of Artifical Intelligence software, editors, English major friends , Google, ... none of it is hard. Matter of fact, I am just writting this post without any help -but if I did use my resources -Trust me , this post would sound like something from Duke,Yale, lol. So far , no grades less than A's.
Lastly, school is so easy most of my friends are going for their MSNs. Really ! So many of these schools just want to see you successful ,and make a few dollars along the way. Look at all the advertisements. Trust me , the day is going to come that entry level into a Magnet hospital is going to be MSN. For a few dollars you can do anything. Checkout this article:How the American Who Outsourced His Own Job to China So He Could Watch Cat Videos Could Have Gotten Away With It, According to the Man Who Caught Him
- 0Jan 17, '13 by SRNA4UAs a profession, a bachelors degree has always been the foundation for a discipline to be called a profession. I went through an ADN program and our first day of class. we were told ADNs are considered "technical nurses" and the BSN is the "professional" nurse. ADNs were produced back in the day strictly for bedside nursing while the BSN prepared nurse did all of the health teaching, care plans, etc. I finished my ADN in 1998 and my BSN in 2000 and it's true that the BSN makes you a well rounded person as compared to other programs that offer BS/BA degrees. In our profession, BSN nurses receive nursing research, leadership/management training, and communithy health, which ADN nurses do not receive. ADN education is geared towards immediate clinical application whereas BSN nurses are prepared for more of a generalist role.
- 0Jan 18, '13 by nursel56 GuideQuote from Vines812That document is a great reference source, but their recommendations were a foregone conclusion if you look at who the members of the Committee were and their affiliations to organizations whose stated goal is to require a BSN for entry to practice as an RN.I studied this in my RN-BSN program. If you read up on the Institute of Medicine's report of the Future of Healthcare, there are certain goals that have been set (along with the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation) to change the face of nursing to be prepared to beter serve the needs of the public in the future. One of the 'goals' or 'recommendations' is that a certain amount (I believe 80%..correct me if I'm wrong it's been awhile since I read the report..) of RNs have BSNs by 2020 (again, if I have the year wrong, correct me.) Other goals in this report include that nurses are actively involved in decision making when it comes to healthcare policies, as well as are able to practice to their full extent of training and knowledge. With this said, this is why they are pushing for more nurses to have higher education- to be forefront leaders in healthcare in the future.
What it does in my mind is answer the questions people ask about the "why" and the "what" do BSN programs coursework offer that makes them eligible to be called professional nurses while they believe the ADN and diploma nurses were not. People might take issue with the position that a formal bachelor's program is the only place to learn about what they feel differently educated RNs lack, but they are outlined in this excerpt from the first page (bolding added):
The ways in which nurses were educated during the 20th century are no longer adequate for dealing with the realities of health care in the 21st century. As patient needs and care environments have become more complex, nurses need to attain requisite competencies to deliver high-quality care. These competencies include leadership, health policy, system improvement, research and evidence-based practice, and teamwork and collaboration, as well as competency in specific content areas such as community and public health and geriatrics. Nurses also are being called upon to fill expanding roles and to master technological tools and information management systems while collaborating and coordinating care across teams of health professionals.
I don't think those qualify as fluff, though I don't see ADN nurses needing a BSN nurse to explain technological tools to them very often. To their credit they do talk about the "seamless track" of nursing education, but they just don't elaborate with too much detail or are they exploring concrete ways to help current community college based nursing programs transition to BSN programs. I really wish they would, but right now they are more interested in funding current BSN nurses to go back for advanced-practice degrees.
Here's a link to the The Future of Nursing: Focus on Education section of the IOM report in case anyone wants to read the whole thing.Last edit by nursel56 on Jan 18, '13 : Reason: failed at typo-free post
- 1Jan 18, '13 by mariebailey, MSN, RNThis is a generalization, but I feel like you don't fully appreciate an education unless you have it, and you are demonstrating that in your post. I can think of more noble battles to fight than attacking people for pursuing a higher level of education.
- 2Jan 18, '13 by ERloverRNI just finished my ADN to RN. I do not regret it. BSN takes you on up the chain an if your like me you want your MSN. Having more education is never ever a dumb thing! The way I think is totally different now as opposed to two years ago. I don't make rash decisions, I research, and I am a better critical thinker. I am better suited for a leadership role. As far as pre reqs the only ones I had to take we're stats, economics, Vietnam war, creative writing, and cultural diversity. All these classes make me a better nurse and a better thinker.
There is nothing wrong with getting your ADN but go for the gold because you want to be a more well rounded person.
- 2Jan 18, '13 by BrandonLPNQuote from SRNA4UI agree with this post. So I hope you realize nursing will always need a class of nurses whose education is geared toward immediate clinical application. Call it "tasky", or whatever dirty word you want, but the bedside nursing will always be a largely technical, hands on occupation. That's why there is a need for LPNs and ADNs. Unless you want to just abandon the bedside role completely to UAP? There seems to be this idea that we can raise our status and pay and still continue doing bedside care. That's not how these things work. You'll find yourself working with more and more techs because you've priced yourself right out of the market. And if we raise the level of entry but RNs still make what they make now, then what was the point?? Raising educational standards without an increase in pay is a complete waste of time and effort.As a profession, a bachelors degree has always been the foundation for a discipline to be called a profession. I went through an ADN program and our first day of class. we were told ADNs are considered "technical nurses" and the BSN is the "professional" nurse. ADNs were produced back in the day strictly for bedside nursing while the BSN prepared nurse did all of the health teaching, care plans, etc. I finished my ADN in 1998 and my BSN in 2000 and it's true that the BSN makes you a well rounded person as compared to other programs that offer BS/BA degrees. In our profession, BSN nurses receive nursing research, leadership/management training, and communithy health, which ADN nurses do not receive. ADN education is geared towards immediate clinical application whereas BSN nurses are prepared for more of a generalist role.
- 1Jan 20, '13 by SleeepyRNQuote from christy1229I feel the same towards the LPN/RN debate. I don't look down on LPNs but I'm sure as heck proud of my RN! HOWEVER. I am with the OP on this one. Maybe I wouldn't be if I didn't already have 94 credits from a university before even taking my pre-reqs for nursing. So I do believe my education is higher than that of many BSNs. And I most certainly have been looked down upon for "only" having an ADN. You apparently are not one of them, but it happens. I'll have my BSN soon (I only had to take 9 more classes because all my pre-reqs had previously been completed) and sooo many of the classes descriptions are exactly what some of my classes in my ADN program already covered. I will admit though, that all ADN programs are different, and mine just happened to be well rounded, including community/public health, professionial issues in nursing, leadership and management...that many ADN programs do not emphasize.Wow... Bitter much?? I'm sorry - but I'm tired of people trying to dumb down the BSN. How can more education be a bad thing?? Do I think having a BSN makes me a better nurse than an ADN? NO! I was trained by an AMAZING ADN preceptor & work alongside many fantastic ADN nurses. But am I proud of earning my bachelor degree? HELL YES! It makes me angry that this is always such a hot topic for debate. Why judge someone for continuing their own education? And for the record - it was not just "an extra PE class" that earned me that degree! That's just an ignorant statement to make & it's offensive. I have yet to hear a BSN nurse make derogatory comments toward ADN nurses...because quite honestly, I don't believe that most BSN nurses consider it an issue, but damned if I don't constantly see a new thread on AN nearly every week bashing nurses who went for their BSN. It's all so petty and not conducive to the work environment at all! Sorry to come across harsh - it's just frustrating to be made to feel like I need to constantly defend my hard earned degree. I am proud of it, just as an ADN should be proud of theirs.
Honestly the biggest thing that bothers me is calling an ADN a 2 year degree. 4 science classes, nutrition, 2 psych classes, 2 English classes, humanities, PLUS 2 years including summer of nursing classes is NOT a 2 year degree. I just so happened to have already taken all those except nutrition and 1 psych class before I decided to pursue nursing.
Also keep in mind that not all BSN's are equal either. Most BSNs only require Inorganic chemistry I, while Lewis University for example requires both I and II and Organic Chem. Having already taken those classes because I am a double major in Biology, I can honestly say having to take Inorganic Chem 2, and Organic chem I to receive a BSN is RIDICULOUS.