NY State may require nurses to obtain 4-year degrees - page 36

But some worry that an already severe shortage will become worse. New York is mulling over a requirement that would force all RNs to earn a bachelor's degree in order to keep their RN... Read More

  1. by   1brosnst
    Hi my name is Stephen . I hope I have rexieved a nurcing degree under the allnurses account prohram and if this counts towords college nursing credirs to graduate through the school of nursing through your school please PM me.

    thanks Stephen

    personal email and full name edited out of message. Per Terms of Service, we may not use full names or email addresses, for security reasons. Thank you.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on May 11, '06
  2. by   tookewlandy
    If there already is a nursing shortage why in the world would they think it is smart to make BSN a requirement to practice nursing as an RN. It doesn't seem that many nurses these days want to stay at the bedside with all the programs that take people who have no health care background and make them an MSN or Nurse Practitioner in a year or 2. So cut out the ADN and you really got yourself a nursing shortage worse than any kind of shortage we have today.

    Earning a BSN or any kind of Bachelors is a big deal, you should be proud of that you worked hard for it and deserve to hold your head up high. But the same is true for people who earn an Associates whether it be ADN or Associate of Animal technology or whatever.In fact, Anyone who goes to college and earns a degree, diploma,certificate, no matter what it is should be proud and know one should try to tear it down cause maybe it did not take as long as theirs did, or because they don't offer certain classes that another one may make mandatory.

    I am going to start an ADN program in the fall. I really don't have a desire to get a BSN and if an ADN can teach me what all the things it takes to become a nurse then why should we have to go back and GET BSN. it makes no sense at all.
  3. by   zenman
    Quote from tookewlandy
    If there already is a nursing shortage why in the world would they think it is smart to make BSN a requirement to practice nursing as an RN. It doesn't seem that many nurses these days want to stay at the bedside with all the programs that take people who have no health care background and make them an MSN or Nurse Practitioner in a year or 2. So cut out the ADN and you really got yourself a nursing shortage worse than any kind of shortage we have today.

    I am going to start an ADN program in the fall. I really don't have a desire to get a BSN and if an ADN can teach me what all the things it takes to become a nurse then why should we have to go back and GET BSN. it makes no sense at all.
    If there is a life threatening shortage of nurses, the appropriate corrective measure is not to shorten the length of training. That is exactly why the ADN nurse was created and it has been one of the worst decisions ever made by the profession, and one nurse in particular. There should not be an "us vs them" type of mentality. If there is a shortage of other professions do you see them cutting their education? No. If there is a teacher shortage, let's shorten their education. I'm sure your kid will still be able to catch up some day...with experience. Requiring one level of entry is, or should be mandatory to place nursing in the same ballpark with other professions. Many of you guys are lacking in those liberal arts courses that make you really "educated and smart" about what's really going on, LOL!
  4. by   tookewlandy
    Quote from zenman
    If there is a life threatening shortage of nurses, the appropriate corrective measure is not to shorten the length of training. That is exactly why the ADN nurse was created and it has been one of the worst decisions ever made by the profession, and one nurse in particular. There should not be an "us vs them" type of mentality. If there is a shortage of other professions do you see them cutting their education? No. If there is a teacher shortage, let's shorten their education. I'm sure your kid will still be able to catch up some day...with experience. Requiring one level of entry is, or should be mandatory to place nursing in the same ballpark with other professions. Many of you guys are lacking in those liberal arts courses that make you really "educated and smart" about what's really going on, LOL!

    But not everyone cares if nursing is in the same ballpark as every other profession. Nursing is in its own ballpark, and if the ballpark was doing so bad , then why are sooooo many people who already have bachelors and masters going to nursing school. Another thing, liberal arts courses may make you more Educated in a certain area, but its not what makes ANYONE SMART.
  5. by   leslie :-D
    even with nsg in the same ballpark as others, it still won't change the harrowing work conditions. this is a serious consideration for those who wish to remain at the bedside.
    there are more pertinent issues at hand.

    leslie
  6. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from earle58
    there are more pertinent issues at hand.

    leslie
    YOU said it girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  7. by   zenman
    Quote from tookewlandy
    But not everyone cares if nursing is in the same ballpark as every other profession. Nursing is in its own ballpark, and if the ballpark was doing so bad , then why are sooooo many people who already have bachelors and masters going to nursing school. Another thing, liberal arts courses may make you more Educated in a certain area, but its not what makes ANYONE SMART.
    I know a lot of nurses don't care about having the same minimal level of education as other professions. Now you see the results...the outcomes are staring you in the face. We're fighting and saying that we can have less education in spite of the fact we have your life in our hands while the person teaching your kids has to have a BA or even more. Do you see the logic in that?

    Liberal art courses provide education in a broad area and liberal arts grads are prized by companies with effective management.
  8. by   NephroBSN
    ....................
    Last edit by NephroBSN on May 22, '06
  9. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Asked this in another thread......

    In countries where BSN is the one point of entry, how is it, nursing is still not respected as it should be, as a profession overall, and why are so many clamoring to practice here in the USA where ADN is the major point of entry to RN practice?

    Have YET to hear anyone respond to this one.
  10. by   lindarn
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    Asked this in another thread......

    In countries where BSN is the one point of entry, how is it, nursing is still not respected as it should be, as a profession overall, and why are so many clamoring to practice here in the USA where ADN is the major point of entry to RN practice?

    Have YET to hear anyone respond to this one.
    I would say that it has more to do with the culture of the country, and its male dominated heirarchy. In other words, nurses are women and women are not respected as part of their culture, regardless of what they do. Women are less equal than men, when it comes to respect, and the impact and control that they are allowed to have. In other words, women are treated like dirt, regardless of how much or little education they have. Nursing is not respected because it is a female dominated profession. Period. It doesn't matter how much education they have. Women in these countries have no power when they are in female dominated professions, just like here.

    But it doesn't have to be like that in this country. It has become like that because nurses have been slow to unionize and take control of their profession. Without a union contract, they are afraid to complain, and bring their concerns to the public. They would be, and are, being fired, in retaliatory discharges. They are made the "example", for everyone to see what happens when you complain.

    In this country, it has more to do with our socialization as less worthy than physicians, and the culture that grew up around nursing, as being subservient handmaidens to physicians, who until recently, were mostly men. It is not like that in other professions, and it doesn't have to be like that in nursing.

    The women in these countries in female dominated professions are VERY subservient to men and authority in general, and it shows in the way they are so easily intimidated by the hospital administration. That is why hospitals like to being them over here. They are so easily pushed around, and threatened with being sent back to their own country in disgrace if they don't do what they are told.

    It doesn't have to be like that here. I cannot believe how naive nurses are. WHO is tellling you that a BSN is not important? Who refuses to recognize and reward nurses with BSNs? Who, in general, treats you like crap? Who lies to you, and continuously works at making your contributions to patient care and outcomes invisible? And now you believe them when they say that "a nurse is a nurse is a nurse" regardless of how much education they have? I have a bridge in Brooklyn I will be happy to sell you, along with the beachfront property in the Arizona desert.

    In other words, the ADNs and diploma nurses need to validate their self worth and self importance, and the best way to do that is to believe the administration when they tell them these things. Administration then doesn't have to be the bad guy, and make a big thing out depriving nurses with a higher degree a higher rate of pay. They just tell the ADNs and Diploma nurses, "WELL, those nurses with those BSNs. THEY WANT TO MAKE MORE MONEY THAN YOU BECAUSE THEY HAVE A MEASLY PIECE OF PAPER!!! IMAGINE THAT!!! And the ADNs and Diploma nurses do their dirty work for them in contract negotiations. And they come out smelling like a rose.

    And the ADNs and Diploma nurses fall for it hook, line and sinker. And the administration is laughing all the way to their board room meetings.
    JMHO.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
    Last edit by lindarn on May 13, '06
  11. by   NephroBSN
    ..............................
    Last edit by NephroBSN on May 22, '06
  12. by   NephroBSN
    ................
    Last edit by NephroBSN on May 22, '06
  13. by   DusktilDawn
    In other words, the ADNs and diploma nurses need to validate their self worth and self importance, and the best way to do that is to believe the administration when they tell them these things. Administration then doesn't have to be the bad guy, and make a big thing out depriving nurses with a higher degree a higher rate of pay. They just tell the ADNs and Diploma nurses, "WELL, those nurses with those BSNs. THEY WANT TO MAKE MORE MONEY THAN YOU BECAUSE THEY HAVE A MEASLY PIECE OF PAPER!!! IMAGINE THAT!!! And the ADNs and Diploma nurses do their dirty work for them in contract negotiations. And they come out smelling like a rose.

    And the ADNs and Diploma nurses fall for it hook, line and sinker. And the administration is laughing all the way to their board room meetings.
    JMHO.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
    Seems more like some BSNs are buying this crap hook, line and sinker, and using it as a battle cry. Since there usually is not a difference (or very little) in pay why would Diploma or ADNs be complaining? Seems to me this is something that would be told to a BSN inquiring why they are not making more than a Diploma or ADN. In fact I've yet to hear an administrator even PROVIDE a reason why BSNs are not compensated more monetarily, never mind bothering to soothe any nurse's bruised ego about ANYTHING. BSNs aren't getting recognized and paid because administration doesn't want to hurt the feelings of Diploma and ADNs, PUUULLLEEAASSE, if anything that would be incentive for them to pay BSNs substantially more and create further division among the ranks if this was actually true. If administrators actually valued nurses and their education, they would pay a BSN substantially more, at the very least as an incentive to obtain a BSN. Who's really validating their self worth here?

    You dismiss BSN entry level doing nothing for nurses in those countries because of "culture" and how they view women and female dominated professions, however this is not true of all countries that require a BSN entry level. BSN has been an entry level in Ontario (Canada) since 2005, no changes yet, and if things continue the way they have, I don't see changes happening in 10, 20, or 30 years in regards to respect, value, and montetary compensation. You went on to state how "socialization" impacts nurses in this country, and it does to a point. In general, nurses are not valued in this country (or Canada for that matter), but then again neither are teachers who do have a BSN entry level and in fact if I'm not mistaken at least 40% of teachers have their Masters. Elementary school teachers, the very teachers who teach our children, the children who will be the next generation of doctors, lawyers, engineers, NURSES, etc, and can we honestly say they are being paid what they are worth considering their educational requirements: http://www.dcjobsource.com/2004teachersalaries.html

    You can argue lack of unions, in fact the vast majority of nurses in Canada are unionized, yet still very little to show for it. I'm personally not against unions per se, however I will say any union will only be as strong as it's members, because a union IS it's members. It requires participation, it's not about waiting for someone or something to make it better for you, it's about YOU making it better.

    The biggest problem with the nursing profession is the lack of cohesion amongst nurses, ALL NURSES. If nurses stuck together on one unit in one hospital they could change things on their unit. If nurses in one hospital stuck together they could change things for that hospital. If nurses banned together throughout a state, they could change legislature in that state.
    Last edit by DusktilDawn on May 14, '06

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