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This is a discussion on Entry all RN's be BSN's in Registered Nurses: Diploma / ADN / BSN, part of General Nursing ... :smilecoffeecup: hey fellow nurses... i am in my masters of nursing education program and one...by nursebrandie28 Feb 7, '07:smilecoffeecup: hey fellow nurses...
i am in my masters of nursing education program and one of the assignments is to write about the pro's and con's of entry level rn education. there is (and has been) talk about making a bsn a requirement to sit for boards and making lpns an associate degree. north dakota made this a state law in 1986 and it was over rided in 1992.
as a lpn instructor, we rush all these classes in 11 months and all the students are so overwhelmed, that maybe expanding the program will be better
as a con, will people still go into nursing if it took 4 years to become a rn and 2 years for lpn? how will it affect the nursing shortage?
any inputs. i remain neutral on the topic, i can see both sides of the fence. i myself obtained my asn, then my bsn and now obtaining my masters.....
and one last question, has any hospitals been pushing for rns to obtain bsns, i know in st louis at barnes jewish hospitals (the largest hospital in the area) they are pushing all rn's to go back to school!!! anybody else encounter this?
thanks in advance for your postings!!
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- Feb 7, '07 by TweetyIt's such a hot topic we have a whole forum dedicated to it. Take the time to read some of the threads on this forum, as well as the "stickey's" at the top.
Where I work there is no push toward getting the BSN.
Good luck on your project.
- Feb 12, '07 by GrnHonu99In my hospital there is a push for us to get our BSNs as well as where I worked in Ohio/NKY. In the ohio hospitlas local /universities would send in professors to the actual hospital and would offer the bridge classes..paid for by the hospital...so quite a few ADN nurses took adv of that.
Here in PHX we do a sort of similar thing.
Im not sure if there is a monetary reward for a higher degree. I know what I get paid but I dont know what ADNs or BSNs get paid.
I think as time goes on this discrepancy will get even larger, bc now you not only have diplomas/ADNs/BSNs as entry level but now you are gettting entry level masters degree nurses. I, myself am one. I have a masters in nursing yet im sure i dont get paid more for it as i have 0 experience. I expect my degree to help me advance in the future but for now i have to do exactly what I am doing, working, working, and getting experience. Its a tough debate.
- Feb 16, '07 by jamato8I have seen no push at all. I have an associates and after one year was asked if I would become a charge nurse in a cardiac critical care unit. I knew I needed more experience but ADN or BSN was not of concern, ability was.
- Feb 16, '07 by nurse4theplanetI understand the push for BSN. I do agree that it would bring the profession more benefits in terms of pay, respect, etc. However, I do not believe that it is appropriate to establish these standards during this time.
We are definitely in a nursing shortage. Not a shortage of nurses in general, but a shortage of nurses at the bedside.
ADNs usually work at the bedside because there are few other alternatives. Once you achieve your BSN, you have more opportunities to move into leadership roles and other extensions of nursing. These areas often bring a higher rate of pay as well. Most of the motivation to achieve a Bachelor's degree for an ADN graduate is to achieve this opportunity and move away from bedside nursing. In addition, there is not a significant difference in competence or pay between the two degrees. Therefore, if current ADNs were required to achieve their BSN to remain at the bedside performing the same duties for the same rate of pay, I think it would increase the bedside nursing shortage. I think most of these nurses would look for other ways to capitalize on the higher level degree. This would not be good for the immediate shortage.
I also think that nursing is struggling as an attractive career for various reasons and that a huge draw to the profession is the time it takes to require the initial degree vs. the pay rate when entering into practice. For example, I went to school for two years at a community college and I now make more than some students in different feilds that hold a bachelor's degree. That was definitely a deciding factor when I was considering majors. If the requirement for entry into practice was raised then I think you would see a drop in applicants. Again, not good for the immediate shortage.
Finally, I feel that the ADN adequately prepares the nurse for bedside nursing. I think the focus of a BSN education is on leadership/research with little advanced clinical practice that actually influences bedside practice. If we are in a bedside shortage, and the current standards are adequate to meet needs that already exceed demands, why then would you increase standards and reduce the number of nurses available at the bedside?
Instituting a BSN entry to practice during a bedside nursing shortage would compound the problem. The remaining nurses at the bedside would then face harsher working conditions, which will only increase the number of nurses who leave the profession in search of other opportunities.
Eventually, as the baby boomer generation begins to dwindle and the bedside care demands decrease the shortage will decrease (if not correct itself completely) and then I will consider the "BSN entry to practice" argument appropriate.
As an ADN grad seeking my BSN in the fall, I am not partial to one degree over the other. This is just my honest opinion of the situation at hand.Last edit by nurse4theplanet on Feb 16, '07
- Feb 16, '07 by caliotter3I remember reading as part of my studies approximately 15 yrs ago that it was proposed that BSN would be entry level professional nursing and ASN would be considered technical nursing. LPN role was to be eliminated (or upgraded to ASN, if you want to look at it that way). I also remember being ridiculed in front of a group of my colleagues by an RN (supervisory role no less) because I was pursuing my BSN. I have enough experience in this line of work now to have decided that facets of the health care system sounds great in textbook theories only. It already takes the better part of two yrs for some to even achieve an LPN license with corresponding waits for other programs. Nobody should be looking at a decade to achieve entry level credentials for a profession unless it is par for the course, like medicine. What do you do while you are waiting if you are unable to work at a lower level or even in health care at all? Some people get pushed out of health care before they even get started. It is not the fault of the potential students, they did not create the health care crisis in this country.
Added thought: Am seeking employment and have noticed in job openings/announcements for acute care hosp, next to nothing or nothing for LPNs; hosp stating that LPN required to be pursuing RN (i.e, that institution in process of phasing out LPN role); most openings for RNs do not specify distinction between levels of education.Last edit by caliotter3 on Feb 16, '07 : Reason: Addition to post
- Feb 16, '07 by GIRNeditedLast edit by GIRN on May 25, '07
- Feb 16, '07 by RNsRWeAs you can see from the size of this forum, there are MANY opinions on this subject
Mine is, in a nutshell, that until we have enough working RNs to fill the current vacancies the industry cannot even consider making it more difficult to obtain this license. Until there aren't a multitude of openings for every nurse out there willing to apply, this just isn't feasible.
More years of education will eliminate those who haven't got enough time or resources to make it possible or practical. More years of education also eliminates smaller schools, 2-year schools, and waiting lists for universities grow out of proportion.
I like the idea of greater education in general. I also like the idea of more difficult licensure, as it improves the standard of the profession as a whole, no argument there. But at this time my hospital (a very typical one) is unable to fill all its staffing needs as it is; waiting more years for fewer graduates is hardly the answer.
- Feb 16, '07 by irishroverI am an ADN student - hopefully I will graduate in May (Ugh!)
I recently quit my full time job (in an unrelated field) and acquired a part-time position in a hospital for the experience. It is already paying off!
I plan on continuing my education. I was going to go for my BSN, but was recently advised to just go straight for the MSN. How does everyone else feel about that? I was told that it was worth the little extra effort! I know that everyone else is in the same boat as I - overworked and underpaid - and very tired.
Any support or responses greatly appreciated. Strength to all!
- Feb 17, '07 by Mimi2RNIf you are interested in a management position, then go for your BSN/MSN. If you have no desire to do so, don't bother. I have no desire to be management. A BSN makes absolutely no difference to your paycheck in most places. At our hospital there is more of a push to get your Certification than a BSN.