BSN the only "professional"??

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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Hi everyone!! I have a question. I have a AS in nursing (for the last 2 months, yeah!) and I took my son to an urgent care center for a sinus infection yesterday. I was talking with the intake nurse and she came across the point on my sons intake form that I am a RN. We spoke for a while, and she told my son that I am not a "professional" nurse, because a "professional" nurse has a BSN. She, of course, has a BSN. She said the ANA supports that the lowest level of education to be considered a professional is a BS in nursing. I brought up the fact that we all pass the same NCLEX, but I didn't say to much because I wasn't sure if ANA really says this. Is this true??

Specializes in Diabetes ED, (CDE), CCU, Pulmonary/HIV.
Actually this nurse was technically correct...not to hurt and feelings or anything.

"In 1965, the ANA adopted a resolution proposing that minimum preparation for beginning professional practice should be a baccalaureate degree in nursing and that minimum preparation for technical practice should be an associate degree in nursing. The ANA's 1965 resolution also prompted the 1985 ANA statement adopting the titles of associate nurse (a nurse prepared in an associate degree program) and a professional nurse (a nurse possessing he baccalaureate degree in nursing)" (Craven & Hirnle, 2007, 45).

"Initially developed in response to a nursing shortage, ADN education thrives today. Students pursing this degree attend a junior college for 2 years receiving college credit for all courses and clinical experience in nursing. The goal of this program is to prepare technical nurses who are capable of functioning as quality practitioners under the supervision of professional nurses" (Craven & Hirnle, 2007, 46).

"The baccalaureate degree in nursing offers students full college or university education with a background in liberal arts. The programs are rigorous and provide students with credits for nursing courses and clinical experience in all areas of nursing practice. Baccalaureate degree programs in nursing emphasize community health, research, leadership, and management"(Craven & Hirnle, 2007, 46).

Info taken from:

Craven, R. F., & Hirnle, C. J. (2007). Fundamentals of nursing human health and function (5th ed.). Philadelphia, PA: Lippincott Williams & Wilkins.

Bolded areas my emphases

Again, all of these things are proposals, opinions, positions. Nothing has been done to put these proposals, opinions, or positions into effect. The nursing profession is still regulated by the individual states (not the ANA). I am a registered nurse, not an associate nurse, not a professional nurse.

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Actually this nurse was technically correct...not to hurt and feelings or anything.

"In 1965, the ANA adopted a resolution proposing that minimum preparation for beginning professional practice should be a baccalaureate degree in nursing and that minimum preparation for technical practice should be an associate degree in nursing. The ANA's 1965 resolution also prompted the 1985 ANA statement adopting the titles of associate nurse (a nurse prepared in an associate degree program) and a professional nurse (a nurse possessing he baccalaureate degree in nursing)" (Craven & Hirnle, 2007, 45).

Actually, this nurse was not correct, technically or otherwise.

The quote you are using here to support her "correctness" merely states that the ANA made a proposal....and in 1965, at that. In the 42 years since that proposal was made, it is still not fact.

The nurse in question told a child, in front of his mother, that his mother was not a professional nurse. That nurse was completely INcorrect, as the license that mother holds is of a Registered Professional Nurse.

Symantics aside, playing power games with a small patient's mother under the guise of "explaining" something to the child was completely out of line.

I'd have her explain her "professional" conduct to the DON, personally.

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I am a registered nurse, not an associate nurse, not a professional nurse.

This just struck a curiosity chord in me: does your license not say Registered Professional Nurse? Is the actual title dictated by individual States? I would be interested to know if the title of the license varies...?

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Yes, it is quite ironic.

This is why I will never become a member of the ANA. Not now, and not when I get my BSN.

:yeahthat:

Elitist ideology annoys me.

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I would report her to the director or the urgent care.(or what ever big wig you can find !) I would go as far as expecting an appology . Maybe she could us a little humble -pie. Seems she missed the classes on professionalism and nursing ettiquette. Prob. too busy writting down how important she is to this world and woundering how has nursing ever survived this many years without her. :flamesonb

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Specializes in ortho(med surg) and OB, mostly L&D.

as nurses we are all professionals because we save people's lives...that ANA stuff is a bunch of hooey...she should not have said that right in front of your son, that was UNprofessional!

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Specializes in ICU, School Nurse, Med/Surg, Psych.

A Registered Nurse is a nursing PROFESSIONAL, an LPN is a technical nurse as they must be supervised. A professional has earned the privilage of autonomy. :balloons:

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Specializes in ob/gyn med /surg.

how rude of her. i would of told i wasn't there for a lecture. as far as i am concerned a RN is a professional ADN or BSN.. there's no difference in the pay or the job. she's uncouth.. grrrrr

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Specializes in Emergency & Trauma/Adult ICU.

"Initially developed in response to a nursing shortage, ADN education thrives today. Students pursing this degree attend a junior college for 2 years receiving college credit for all courses and clinical experience in nursing. The goal of this program is to prepare technical nurses who are capable of functioning as quality practitioners under the supervision of professional nurses" (Craven & Hirnle, 2007, 46).

Info taken from:

Craven, R. F., & Hirnle, C. J. (2007). Fundamentals of nursing human health and function (5th ed.). Philadelphia, PA: Lippincott Williams & Wilkins.

From a new edition of a nursing fundamentals textbook ... :uhoh3:

Does it knock the socks off of the readers of this text when they begin clinicals and/or begin working as nurses and find department managers, educators, supervisors and others who are RNs without a BSN? Or even (gasp) LPNs?

That this is printed in a fundamentals textbook goes a long way toward explaining the annual round of posts from BSN new grads who are shocked to find that they are competing for the same jobs, with the same job descriptions, and often for the same pay with ADN and diploma new grads.

I'm a diploma RN enrolled in an RN-BSN program. If I were not already 40, I'd strongly consider completing my MSN. But misinformation such as this is unworthy of inclusion in texts -- it simply has no basis in reality.

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The intake nurse is certainly entitled to her opinions, as ignorant as they may be. But why she would even talk about that subject with your son during the conduct of her duties is beyond me. A short letter to her employer might be in order. If she says things like this to your underage son, who knows what other demonstrations of her "professionalism" are happening with other patients. She is not representing her employer, herself, or her BSN education well at all. I would feel uncomfortable talking to her in the future.

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I have read so many views on the AD, BSN, Diploma issue that I am dizzy. All RNs regardless of education are professional nurses or should be!

I attended a Hospital Nursing School in England (we did not call them "Diploma" programmes) and have now been an RN for almost 40 years. I have worked in the USA since 1972 and am still working.

During the 1960s in the UK there were no university degrees for nursing students. You had two choices, become a State Enrolled Nurse (LPN/LVN in the US) which was 2 years of study, or a State Registered Nurse (SRN) which was 3 years. There were very few degree programs in the USA at that time too, but there were many Diploma programs.

We worked long hours in every department of the hospital including outpatient clinics and surgery in order to gain experience, but contrary to what many people think, we also attended classes. My school used the block system, 4 weeks in class 8am-5pm Monday through Friday, a month or two on the wards (9 hour days and 10 hour nights), 3 to 8 weeks back in class and so on, for 3 years. Other than the basic nursing courses all our lectures were given by Physicians and Surgeons of different specialties, many of whom taught in the nearby Medical School. As long as we did not fail any exams along the way, we were eligible to take the State Final Exam (State Boards in the US) at the end of the 3 years. Qualification as a Registered Nurse while not a degree, was considered equal but different.

It is apparent to me that the first 2 years of a BSN program here in the USA is spent doing the same courses that students in the UK complete in their last 2 years of high school. Then and now, most Bachelor degrees in the UK take 3 years to complete, because many subjects required for the students' chosen field have to be taken and exams passed, prior to being accepted into the degree program.

When I came to the US in 1972 a Diploma RN seemed to be considered about the same as a BSN/RN and a little more qualified than an ADN; however, as Diploma schools closed and more RNs graduated with Associate Degrees and BSN degrees, Diploma nurses were considered "beneath" ADNs. I mention this only because I am sick and tired of being treated as an oddity! I have worked in almost every specialty through the years and have seen so many changes; not always for the better. In the US, employers and colleges act as though Diploma nurses obtained no education after High School, just look at the average employment application under education level, the choices are, graduated High School, Associates Degree, Bachelors Degree, Masters Degree etc.

I know that the education I received in Nursing School was equal to or better than many degree programs around in the 1970s. Of course BSN/RNs learn more in 2007 than I did in the 1960s just as MDs learn more in medical school now than in the 1960s but we all continue to learn and gain experience, knowledge does not remain static. I have worked with many BSN/RNs even recently, who can quote all kinds of available research but cannot explain a procedure to a patient or even adequately perform that procedure. A patient requiring wound care needs a nurse who is capable, caring and knowledgeable to perform that care, whether the nurse has a degree or not is of no concern to the patient. Not everyone can apply knowledge learned, to the workplace and many BSN nurses do not want to apply it. They do not want to be around patients. My niece who has a BSN and has been an ER nurse for 4 years told me that she learned nothing useful until she was actually working in the ER, and she loves it. However, many of her college friends worked for a year or less and then went straight back to school for advanced degrees. One friend told her "I don't want to mess with patients, I would rather do research or management so I can tell others what to do." It is quite frightening that these young men and women are the future managers, directors and educators of our profession. In my opinion all new RNs should have to work in a hospital environment for at least 5 years before going back to school.

I predict that 40 years from now most RNs will have MSN degrees and will do no hands on nursing. The BSN degrees of today will be considered next to useless and there will be no LPNs. AD nurses will be considered "technical" and will do all the hands on care with the help of nursing aides/assistants . I hope I am wrong in my predictions but lets face it there would probably not be a nursing shortage if all the BSN/RNs and MSN/RNs went back to direct patient care. Then again, would we want them to?

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From a new edition of a nursing fundamentals textbook ... :uhoh3:

Does it knock the socks off of the readers of this text when they begin clinicals and/or begin working as nurses and find department managers, educators, supervisors and others who are RNs without a BSN? Or even (gasp) LPNs?

That this is printed in a fundamentals textbook goes a long way toward explaining the annual round of posts from BSN new grads who are shocked to find that they are competing for the same jobs, with the same job descriptions, and often for the same pay with ADN and diploma new grads.

I'm a diploma RN enrolled in an RN-BSN program. If I were not already 40, I'd strongly consider completing my MSN. But misinformation such as this is unworthy of inclusion in texts -- it simply has no basis in reality.

I AM shocked to read that this is in a current-edition nursing textbook! I wonder how such misinformation gets passed through the proofreaders and fact-checkers? No wonder BSN grads (reading this ridiculous text) believe they are going to "supervise" ADN RNs? How funny! Perhaps the editors of this text would be interested in seeing a copy of my NYS license that reads "Registered Professional Nurse"?

That passage you quoted gives the impression that the two-year degree alone is what entitles someone to become a "junior" RN....and forgets to mention the fact that the EXACT SAME NCLEX is required for the ADN and the BSN to pass.

How incredibly insulting.

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