BSN as entry into practice; why we decided against it. - page 6

by MunoRN

25,553 Views | 240 Comments

While hopefully avoiding stoking the ADN - BSN debate unnecessarily, I thought I'd share my experience with my state's consideration of BSN as entry into practice, as well as the BSN-in-10 initiative. About 3 years ago I sat... Read More


  1. 0
    The last paragraph in quote box in my post above should actually have been outside the box as part of my post. Sorry for the confusion.
  2. 0
    Quote from trueblue2000
    Right about the first part. As of now the BSN requirement applies only to nurse managers.

    From the ANCC website:

    Effective 1/1/2011 (at time of application) – 75% Nurse Managers must have a degree in nursing
    (baccalaureate or graduate degree)
    Effective 1/1/2013 (at time of application) – 100% Nurse Managers must have a degree in nursing
    (baccalaureate or graduate degree)


    But after 2013 magnet hospitals will have to present a plan to have 80% of all RNs with BSNs.

    Organizations submitting documentation anytime on or after June 1, 2013, regardless of the application date, will be expected to address the new education SOE: "Provide an action plan and set a target, which demonstrates evidence of progress toward having 80% of registered nurses obtain a degree in nursing (baccalaureate or graduate degree)by 2020."

    Source: Magnet Recognition Program® FAQ: Data and Expected Outcomes - American Nurses Credentialing Center - ANCC

    *** Ya I know. It's why I said "Magnet HAS NOT required required BSN staff". My point that if Magnet hospitals have lower mortality in surgical patients, as the Medscape aricle is reported to say, it's an unrelated issue to the one being disccused here. The Medscape article can't be used as evidence that BSN prepared staff reduce mortality.
  3. 7
    The same people who will defend associate's degrees to the death are often the same people who gripe about not being seen as a "professional."

    *** Interesting. I have not observed that, either in person or here on all nurses.

    So, you want to be seen as a professional,

    *** No, not really. I don't concern myself much with how nurses are "seen". i am perfectly comfortable with being skilled labor. After all it's hard to feel anything else when punching a time clock like your average factory worker.

    but you want to keep the training at the technical school level?

    *** YES!


    Most of the people who go to the community college around here are going to be some sort of tech/assistant, or to be a welder, auto repairman, or just as a stepping stone to the University.

    *** Or nurses!

    I don't really care what path anyone chooses, but until we are on the same playing field with other professions (which require at LEAST a bachelor's degree)

    *** I don't see the benifit of being on the same playing field as other health care workers. I like our nitch. In my opinion nursing is made much stronger by the high level of diversity we have. A diversity made possible by the local community college nursing program.

    then it's really pointless to complain about or demand more wages (notice I didn't say salary), respect, etc.

    *** Wages are much preferable to salary.
    Kandy83, B in the USA, nursel56, and 4 others like this.
  4. 4
    Quote from Ntheboat2
    Most baristas already have a bachelor's degree? We're talking a coffee server, right?
    They do where I live. Some of them have masters degrees.
    tewdles, tokmom, BrandonLPN, and 1 other like this.
  5. 2
    Quote from brandy1017
    Not to rain on your parade but an ADN RN is done with school and working sooner than the BSN RN, gaining real life work experience which is obviously superior to clinicals, plus making money sooner and carrying less student loan debt.

    Instead of making this a contest about who is the better nurse one needs to think about what the best course of action is for themself and their family
    Then, in the name of financial and personal success, consider this:

    In my state and many many others, the average job search time for ASN NG RNs is twice as long, a year or more, vs BSN new grads. That and the jobs available for ASN NGs are usually not higher paying hospital jobs. It may take many ASN NGs 2-3 years to get into a hospital job. Many more ASN NGs become unhirable "stale grads" than do BSN grads.

    It isn't because ASN grads are unworthy, it is simple competition in a competitive labor market. Please consider that when talking about what is best.
    anggelRN and llg like this.
  6. 0
    Quote from MunoRN
    I'm skeptical of the idea that changing the level of entry will affect pay. If Baristas decide they're going to all get PhD's, it's unlikely that will improve their pay; it's market driven.
    I could ask you if you understand labor supply vs employer demand for employees?
    Or the idea of value adding requirements for professionals vs the unskilled labor in your example?

    If shifting to a BSN increased pay, then we should have already seen an increase relative to other healthcare specialties. Instead, Nursing salary growth has lagged behind other specialties for which the educational requirement have remained a 1 or 2 year program, even though the number of BSN Nurses has significantly increased.
    Now I will ask you I could ask you if you understand labor supply vs employer demand. With expanding nursing programs everywhere for the last decade and everyone running to nursing because of the false "shortage," it is easy to understand. Making over half of the NG RN production BSNs while total NG production exceeds demand by 25% simply lets the employers demand desperate new BSNs work for ADN pay while telling a bunch of ADNs (and BSNs) that they are qualified, but not needed. Further, lifetime pay increases slow as there are plenty of desperate unemployed nurses available on the market to replace experienced nurses if they become too expensive.

    If the barrier to entry increases through increased educational demands (value added) and thus new-professional production is slowed, the nursing labor supply will stop exploding allowing for increases in salary that reflect the professional and educational status of the labor pool.

    Now, I'd ask you, what labor and statistics data are you reading??????????

    What Allied Healthcare professions that are still 1 year programs do you want to compare nursing too? Paramedics making $14/hr? Scrub techs? MAs making $12/hr?

    If nursing is a vocation, compare us to career certificate programs that require a GED to get in. If nurses are medical professionals, why don't you look at what happened with increased requirements and pay for PT, OT, Pharmacy, etc.
  7. 4
    Why can't there be a third level of licnesure? The ADN can still result in sitting for the NCLEX-RN, and grads of a BSN can sit for.... Something else. A scope of practice higher than the current RN? In any case, having multiple educational pathways for the *exact* same licensure is illogical and confusing.
    subee, PRICHARILLAisMISSED, Altra, and 1 other like this.
  8. 3
    The real bottom line is: Is raising the entry to practice going to raise the pay scale? As someone aptly pointed out, grad students working at Starbucks still make nine bucks an hour. BSN nurses here make $0.50 more an hour than ADN nurses. ADN nurses can still find a job easily where I live. If employers want BSNs so badly, why aren't they paying them accordingly?
    Kandy83, PMFB-RN, and tokmom like this.
  9. 3
    Quote from brandy1017
    Not to rain on your parade but an ADN RN is done with school and working sooner than the BSN RN, gaining real life work experience which is obviously superior to clinicals, plus making money sooner and carrying less student loan debt. What's not to like about this scenario? In this day and age of shrinking benefits, pensions, health insurance, it's a very smart decision to keep costs low and maximize income!
    ADNs have a much harder time finding employment, especially hospital employment, in my neck of the woods than BSNs do. The largest academic hospital in the area won't be hiring ADNs at all starting in January.
    Kandy83, hiddencatRN, and SummitRN like this.
  10. 2
    Quote from Ntheboat2
    Most baristas already have a bachelor's degree? We're talking a coffee server, right?
    Yeah. A coffee server with a history, English, philosophy etc. degree that is underemployed. They weren't saying that it was required to be a barista!
    nursel56 and SummitRN like this.


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