BSN does not mean better... Sometimes education is overrated!

santhony44, MSN, RN, NP · May 17, 2007

I wish I worked with you! There's an experienced nurse I work with from time to time who makes me nuts by saying how such-and-such was done wrong, or this-and-that was charted right when I know it to be the opposite BECAUSE I'm only out of school a year. Specifically on legal issues, the newest information was given to us as we were leaving, so I'd trust that over her info (which is 12 years old and she doesn't believe in continuing education, so I know she's not kept up on it).
/rant :)

I read something once I think is very true: Some people have twenty years' experience. Others have one years' experience, twenty times! I think your co-worker fits into that category. :lol2:

Experience is great! But things do change, and we do need to at least attempt to keep up.

Someone mentioned BSN grads not being able to start IV's, or some such. I was an LPN and then ADN. I never once started an IV or did any venipuncture in school. Maybe it was the time- back in the early to mid 1980's. At that time, most hospitals in my area had IV teams, so floor nurses didn't commonly do those, and the phelbotomists did most blood draws. Eventually I learned those OJT.

Knowing skills is good but there is no way everyone can learn everything in school!

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · May 18, 2007

That's true. I've been a nurse for a long long time. I learn so much from new grads. Plus , I feel if I'm open to hearing new things, asking questions of new grads that they will feel more free about asking questions of more experienced nurses.(even those that "eat their young". I do hope since you are a fairly new nurse that many of us "older nurses" keep up on our education too,we also have alot of experience so tap in on it.

Oh, I never go a day without tapping into that knowledge which experience has brought (wrought?). Goes without saying, or it should, as it's usually the more experienced teaching those of us with less. But in this one example, imagine the frustration of the newbie who IS frequently relying on those with more experience and yet finds that they often don't know when reciprocation is good for them :)

I have no experience to offer them (longtime nurses) but I sure do know the latest techniques or legal bits to be aware of because I'm new. Shame there aren't more like you, who know that having become a nurse XX years ago doesn't equal keeping themselves current. You have to go out of your way for that :)

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · May 18, 2007

Someone mentioned BSN grads not being able to start IV's, or some such. I was an LPN and then ADN. I never once started an IV or did any venipuncture in school. Maybe it was the time- back in the early to mid 1980's. At that time, most hospitals in my area had IV teams, so floor nurses didn't commonly do those, and the phelbotomists did most blood draws. Eventually I learned those OJT.
Knowing skills is good but there is no way everyone can learn everything in school!

I didn't comment on that original quote, but yes, I too graduated from an excellent ADN program that did NOT include IV starts as part of its curriculum. Why? Wasn't time! Instructors knew that we'd all learn it OTJ at every facility that employed us, so hardly an issue. And I am pleased to say I'm quite competent at it now, when not a single minute was spent on it in school (graduated 5/06)!

I_am_Julia · May 18, 2007

education is never overrated.

HeartsOpenWide, RN · May 18, 2007

I am in a BSN program. My med/surg instructor this year (who also teaches at the JC that has an ADN) told us that we were getting a better education than the student nurses at the JC she teaches at because we are taught more critical thinking skills. Some one argued that those at the JC get more clinical time so have more hands on experience. She said you can teach a monkey to do technical skills. That doing I.V.s, and the such, are things you can learn with practice (although we ARE getting this stuff in clinical so I am not sure what the concern is) she said that the critical thinking skills are more important. I am not saying that one is better than the other. This is just what my teacher told me and something some one said reminded me of it.

You say that you are tired of BSN nurses on here saying they should make more or that they are better or whatever. Well I am tired of ADN nurses discrediting my education, saying I am wasting my time or that I am no more deserving of a quarter more an hour, or that ADN nurses have better technical skills or that WHATEVER. A nurse is a nurse is a nurse. I am tired of the bickering. When I was medical assisting no one said, I am better because I have an AS in medical assisting and you only have a certificate of competion. I do not understand the bickerng that goes on between nurses. My class gets along great, although I see the upper classes argue like cats and dogs, and I had a bad clinical experience this year (of which if I was nasty could blame say that it was because a majority of them were ADN nurses and they felt threatened, this were just nastyunhappy people, so sad)

I could argue that BSN nurses are better simply because at my school you are chosen by grades, all of us that got in this year all had all As in our pre-requs with high overall GPAs. And it is a holistic program so we are not all just brains with no bedside mannor. The JC puts names into a hat, requiring only to pass pre-requs with a C. No one has failed out of my class. My friend who is at the JC said at least 4 have already failed out of his. The talk use to be that the JC turned out better nurses, but now that they are using the lotto system, our school is in favor. HOWEVER, I am not saying one is better than the other. Just pointing out that any side can make an argument. I am not getting my BSN because I think it is better. If I wanted to be a bed side nurse I would get my ASN, so much quicker and you learn the same skills as a BSN and the pay is the same. But I want to get my masters and work as a practitioner. But there are definitely perks to having a BSN vs an ASN; and I don't mean money; that is not why I am going into this anyway!

Don' bash me I am just throwing ideas out there. I think both sides are great and that if nurses do not learn how to come together instead of tear eachother appart we are all going to be in a world of hurt. I am appauled. period.

fakebee · May 18, 2007

As a bedside ICU/CVICU nurse for 12 years I have never asked my

coworkers about their credentialing. My years in the Army taught me to judge people on their performance, not their rank, their educational status, their

appearance or their hair color,etc. The bottom line is that I could care less if you are BSN,ADN, Diploma, work release or home schooled. All I care about is that you are safe,competent, a team player, and an Atlanta Braves fan. Well, actually 3 out of those 4 are mandatory. There's a reason we're called a health care team-our strengths and weaknesses balance themselves out collectively so we can do the impossible on a routine basis. Give everyone the benefit of the doubt until there is no doubt. Why make a tough job harder! :lol2: :balloons:

KsEDRN · May 18, 2007

As a bedside ICU/CVICU nurse for 12 years I have never asked my
coworkers about their credentialing. My years in the Army taught me to judge people on their performance, not their rank, their educational status, their
appearance or their hair color,etc. The bottom line is that I could care less if you are BSN,ADN, Diploma, work release or home schooled. All I care about is that you are safe,competent, a team player, and an Atlanta Braves fan. Well, actually 3 out of those 4 are mandatory. There's a reason we're called a health care team-our strengths and weaknesses balance themselves out collectively so we can do the impossible on a routine basis. Give everyone the benefit of the doubt until there is no doubt. Why make a tough job harder! :balloons:

I too was military for 20 years and agree. I chose an ADN program for several reasons.

1. The ADN program in my area had the best NCLEX pass rate.

2. I needed to finish school and start earning before my VA education benefits ran out.

3. I was not interested in a leadership roll. Had enough of that.

Our instructors were great and worked hard on our critical thinking skills and I think it made me a great nurse. I have only been an RN for 2 years, but have only seen 2 nurses fail there NCLEX, both from BSN programs... go figure.

My husband is now going to nursing school and chose a BSN program because it was the program that accepted the most of his prior credits and he wants to go on to a Masters program after completion.

Integrity, work ethic, team work, compassion & ability to learn from anyone are the qualities I look for in a coworker.

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · May 18, 2007

I am in a BSN program. My med/surg instructor this year (who also teaches at the JC that has an ADN) told us that we were getting a better education than the student nurses at the JC she teaches at because we are taught more critical thinking skills. Some one argued that those at the JC get more clinical time so have more hands on experience. She said you can teach a monkey to do technical skills.

Tell your instructor to kiss me where the sun don't shine.

Monkey, indeed.

And I don't need a nursing instructor to teach me critical thinking. My parents and grammar school teachers started me along that road, thank you very much.

That's why I declined the second year for the RN and have chosen to do it through Excelsior.

(BTW, this isn't directed at you, just know-it-all arrogant asshat instructors.)

RNDreamer · May 18, 2007

OMG! That was too funny! Wow! I didn't know that there was even an issue about the different nursing programs until I found this forum..my baby sister is taking prereqs for an ADN program at a comm col. ...if I find out that any nurse is putting her down because her degree isn't enough, I will hunt them down with my BSN!!!! but seriously, suesquatch your post caught me by surprise, I just had to post

Tell your instructor to kiss me where the sun don't shine.
Monkey, indeed.

Kelly_the_Great · May 18, 2007

You know, I love nurses and value each of them, their contributions and their perspectives. I think we all have something of great value to offer.

Unfortunately, we don't seem to believe we, ourselves, are worthy of the offer, I guess. We don't value and offer respect to one another.

This more than anything, the lack of respect, concern and devaluing of one another disheartens me the most about the profession of nursing and its future.

How will we ever conquer the challenges before us without eachother's help? We are our own worst enemies.

HeartsOpenWide, RN · May 19, 2007

Tell your instructor to kiss me where the sun don't shine.
Monkey, indeed.
And I don't need a nursing instructor to teach me critical thinking. My parents and grammar school teachers started me along that road, thank you very much.
That's why I declined the second year for the RN and have chosen to do it through Excelsior.
(BTW, this isn't directed at you, just know-it-all arrogant asshat instructors.)

Oh I agree. I was just stating what she said to us. Point being that if my instructor is sayying this others may too. And they wonder why there is diversity/

msdobson · May 19, 2007

Aids don't realize how busy we really are.

You are now officially treading into the circular argument minefield.