BSN as entry into practice; why we decided against it.

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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While hopefully avoiding stoking the ADN - BSN debate unnecessarily, I thought I'd share my experience with my state's consideration of BSN as entry into practice, as well as the BSN-in-10 initiative.

About 3 years ago I sat on a council charged with evaluating and making recommendations on the educational requirements for Nursing. We worked closely with both employers and schools of Nursing to evaluate needs and capabilities and to coordinate the two.

We initially reviewed the evidence, most notably Linda Aiken's work on the relationship between educational level and quality of Nursing care. On the surface her work seems to clearly support the BSN model, however upon closer inspection we could not show that improved Nursing specific outcomes were due to higher proportions of BSN nurses, at least in terms of a BSN being causative rather than just correlative. While her studies did show a relationship between better outcomes and Hospitals with a higher proportion of BSN Nurses, she failed to adequately account for the fact that Hospitals with higher proportions of BSN nurses also have many factors that would be likely to contribute to better outcomes. For instance, predominately BSN hospitals (teaching hospitals) tend to have better staffing ratios, better support systems, better funding, and are more likely to be "early adopters" of practice improvements. Aiken's accounting for the effects of these differences were grossly inadequate. When her data was properly corrected for these differences, there was no clear difference between ADN and BSN prepared Nurses in areas examined.

We then looked at differences in curriculum between ADN and BSN programs and found surprisingly few differences. Pre-requisites varied among both ADN and BSN programs, with the only consistent difference being that BSN programs required a Nutrition class. We had assumed that the Statistics requirement was also a universal difference, but what we found was that this was only different in older ADN programs, newer ADN programs carried the same statistics requirement with some requiring a higher level of statistics than even the top BSN program in the state. In the program itself, the curriculum is closely regulated by both accreditation groups and the State Board, both of which hold the curriculum of both types of program to the same standards, minus the BSN program's additional leadership and community health classes.

Considering the minimal differences between ADN and BSN curriculum, we questioned whether there might be differences related to the 'caliber' of student admitted to each type of program, we were particularly surprised by what we found. Two of the ADN programs in the state required a previous bachelor's degree to even apply, more were considering this. The typical minimum GPA in core prerequisites for competitive entry ADN programs was 3.8, for BSN programs it was 3.6.

The biggest factor was what we would need to do to move to only BSN programs. Our current BSN programs already have a shortage of clinical spots, so expanding our current BSN programs was not an option. The only viable option was to take our ADN programs and simply start calling them BSN programs by adding community health and leadership classes and requiring the additional "general" credits needed to fulfill the credit requirements of a bachelors. To do this, community colleges would have to partner with Universities who would then grant BSN's for a (large) fee. This would essentially mean the only difference between an ADN and BSN would be 8 core credits, about 35 general credits, and about $18,000.

The other concern with limiting RN education opportunities to BSN programs by expanding BSN programs was the demographic makeup of Nursing students. More than half of those currently going into Nursing are "second career" students. These students typically are not in positions where attending a direct BSN program is feasible. In my state, BSN programs are only available in two urban areas. It's much easier for an 18 year old to drop everything and move to one of these two areas than it is for someone who has kids in school, owns a home, has a spouse with an immovable job, etc. As a result we were concerned about the effect such a drastic change in Nursing student demographics might have.

A survey of employers found no glaring preference for BSN prepared Nurses in my state, in fact we were surprised at the number of Hospitals that expressed a preference for ADN new grads as they found their bedside training requirements were less, this was likely due to the limitations in clinical experience in BSN programs. Only one hospital in the state expressed a preference for BSN graduates, although they did not require a BSN, this was the Hospital associated with the state's largest BSN program. They did express that their preference for BSN's was somewhat self-serving; when part of the job market is "BSN-only", it helps maintain demand for a degree that's fairly similar yet typically 400% more expensive than the ADN option. This would seem to shed some light on why "BSN-only" employers are primarily hospitals associated with Universities.

In the end we determined that we could not support the goal of BSN as entry to practice at this time. We did however endorse the concept of BSN-in-10 through ADN to BSN programs. Although we didn't go so far as to advocate BSN-in-10 as a requirement. This was partly due to reviewing North Dakota's failed BSN-in-10 attempt, as well as the demographics involved in the Nursing workforce. The number of experienced Nurses who leave the workforce is a real problem. This attrition often occurs between 5 and 10 years. Adding a requirement that will take additional time as well as cost, in many cases, up to half of their yearly salary would too often serve as the primary factor in a decision to leave Nursing. There are huge advantages to additional schooling after a period of time in the workforce, one could argue advantages that exceed that of direct BSN programs, however it was not felt that the loss of experienced Nurses outweighed those advantages. But when feasible, all ADN Nurses should be actively encouraged to pursue an ADN to BSN.

As a BSN prepared Nurse, I was expecting confirmation that my money was spell spent, and I'm not saying it necessarily wasn't, however many of the assumptions I held may have been overstated or just incorrect. For many, direct BSN programs are worth the expense, for other's it's not. What's most important is that students can make an informed decision.

Most baristas already have a bachelor's degree? We're talking a coffee server, right?

The same people who will defend associate's degrees to the death are often the same people who gripe about not being seen as a "professional."

So, you want to be seen as a professional, but you want to keep the training at the technical school level? How many professionals go to community college?

Most of the people who go to the community college around here are going to be some sort of tech/assistant, or to be a welder, auto repairman, or just as a stepping stone to the University.

What you are saying is TECHNICALLY true, Ntheboat2, but that just doesn't matter. It is also technically true that motorcycles are generally quicker than cars, and that statement has just as much relevance to this discussion as your above statement "I don't really care what path anyone chooses, but until we are on the same playing field with other professions (which require at LEAST a bachelor's degree) then it's really pointless to complain about or demand more wages (notice I didn't say salary), respect, etc.

."

I say this because, "So what if those other professionals all have to have a Bachelor degree as an entry requirement." This is because the education and skills covered in those Bachelor degree programs in their entirety are necessary to do the job. But if there is decade upon decade of evidence telling us that ADN grads can carry out the job as well as (or for the sake of argument, in the ballpark of) BSN grads, then the entirety of a BSN curriculum is obviously NOT the necessary entry requirement of the field. You argue that Nurses should get a mandatory BSN for pretty much no other reason than because "They have it, why shouldn't Nurses have it?" I mean if that's the case, why not make a Triple Doctorate the entry level requirement with a "Nobel in 10" to follow as a condition of continued employment? That'll sure show those other professions how seriously they should take Nursing!

BTW, If you are paid hourly, you are a wage earner, It doesn't matter what your employer or anyone else calls it. Salary is a yearly base pay.

Also, I'd like to point out that this post could be taken a bit as an insult for the recipient, so let me add that that is not my intention, but as I lack the ability to get my point across in any other way this is the best I could do.

The last paragraph in quote box in my post above should actually have been outside the box as part of my post. Sorry for the confusion.

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Right about the first part. As of now the BSN requirement applies only to nurse managers.

From the ANCC website:

BlackDot.aspxEffective 1/1/2011 (at time of application) - 75% Nurse Managers must have a degree in nursing

(baccalaureate or graduate degree)

BlackDot.aspxEffective 1/1/2013 (at time of application) - 100% Nurse Managers must have a degree in nursing

(baccalaureate or graduate degree)

But after 2013 magnet hospitals will have to present a plan to have 80% of all RNs with BSNs.

Organizations submitting documentation anytime on or after June 1, 2013, regardless of the application date, will be expected to address the new education SOE: "Provide an action plan and set a target, which demonstrates evidence of progress toward having 80% of registered nurses obtain a degree in nursing (baccalaureate or graduate degree)by 2020."

Source: Magnet Recognition Program® FAQ: Data and Expected Outcomes - American Nurses Credentialing Center - ANCC

*** Ya I know. It's why I said "Magnet HAS NOT required required BSN staff". My point that if Magnet hospitals have lower mortality in surgical patients, as the Medscape aricle is reported to say, it's an unrelated issue to the one being disccused here. The Medscape article can't be used as evidence that BSN prepared staff reduce mortality.

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.

The same people who will defend associate's degrees to the death are often the same people who gripe about not being seen as a "professional."

*** Interesting. I have not observed that, either in person or here on all nurses.

So, you want to be seen as a professional,

*** No, not really. I don't concern myself much with how nurses are "seen". i am perfectly comfortable with being skilled labor. After all it's hard to feel anything else when punching a time clock like your average factory worker.

but you want to keep the training at the technical school level?

*** YES!

Most of the people who go to the community college around here are going to be some sort of tech/assistant, or to be a welder, auto repairman, or just as a stepping stone to the University.

*** Or nurses!

I don't really care what path anyone chooses, but until we are on the same playing field with other professions (which require at LEAST a bachelor's degree)

*** I don't see the benifit of being on the same playing field as other health care workers. I like our nitch. In my opinion nursing is made much stronger by the high level of diversity we have. A diversity made possible by the local community college nursing program.

then it's really pointless to complain about or demand more wages (notice I didn't say salary), respect, etc.

*** Wages are much preferable to salary.

Most baristas already have a bachelor's degree? We're talking a coffee server, right?

They do where I live. Some of them have masters degrees.

Specializes in ICU + Infection Prevention.
Not to rain on your parade but an ADN RN is done with school and working sooner than the BSN RN, gaining real life work experience which is obviously superior to clinicals, plus making money sooner and carrying less student loan debt.

Instead of making this a contest about who is the better nurse one needs to think about what the best course of action is for themself and their family

Then, in the name of financial and personal success, consider this:

In my state and many many others, the average job search time for ASN NG RNs is twice as long, a year or more, vs BSN new grads. That and the jobs available for ASN NGs are usually not higher paying hospital jobs. It may take many ASN NGs 2-3 years to get into a hospital job. Many more ASN NGs become unhirable "stale grads" than do BSN grads.

It isn't because ASN grads are unworthy, it is simple competition in a competitive labor market. Please consider that when talking about what is best.

Specializes in ICU + Infection Prevention.
I'm skeptical of the idea that changing the level of entry will affect pay. If Baristas decide they're going to all get PhD's, it's unlikely that will improve their pay; it's market driven.

I could ask you if you understand labor supply vs employer demand for employees?

Or the idea of value adding requirements for professionals vs the unskilled labor in your example?

If shifting to a BSN increased pay, then we should have already seen an increase relative to other healthcare specialties. Instead, Nursing salary growth has lagged behind other specialties for which the educational requirement have remained a 1 or 2 year program, even though the number of BSN Nurses has significantly increased.

Now I will ask you I could ask you if you understand labor supply vs employer demand. With expanding nursing programs everywhere for the last decade and everyone running to nursing because of the false "shortage," it is easy to understand. Making over half of the NG RN production BSNs while total NG production exceeds demand by 25% simply lets the employers demand desperate new BSNs work for ADN pay while telling a bunch of ADNs (and BSNs) that they are qualified, but not needed. Further, lifetime pay increases slow as there are plenty of desperate unemployed nurses available on the market to replace experienced nurses if they become too expensive.

If the barrier to entry increases through increased educational demands (value added) and thus new-professional production is slowed, the nursing labor supply will stop exploding allowing for increases in salary that reflect the professional and educational status of the labor pool.

Now, I'd ask you, what labor and statistics data are you reading??????????

What Allied Healthcare professions that are still 1 year programs do you want to compare nursing too? Paramedics making $14/hr? Scrub techs? MAs making $12/hr?

If nursing is a vocation, compare us to career certificate programs that require a GED to get in. If nurses are medical professionals, why don't you look at what happened with increased requirements and pay for PT, OT, Pharmacy, etc.

Why can't there be a third level of licnesure? The ADN can still result in sitting for the NCLEX-RN, and grads of a BSN can sit for.... Something else. A scope of practice higher than the current RN? In any case, having multiple educational pathways for the *exact* same licensure is illogical and confusing.

The real bottom line is: Is raising the entry to practice going to raise the pay scale? As someone aptly pointed out, grad students working at Starbucks still make nine bucks an hour. BSN nurses here make $0.50 more an hour than ADN nurses. ADN nurses can still find a job easily where I live. If employers want BSNs so badly, why aren't they paying them accordingly?

Specializes in PDN; Burn; Phone triage.
Not to rain on your parade but an ADN RN is done with school and working sooner than the BSN RN, gaining real life work experience which is obviously superior to clinicals, plus making money sooner and carrying less student loan debt. What's not to like about this scenario? In this day and age of shrinking benefits, pensions, health insurance, it's a very smart decision to keep costs low and maximize income!

ADNs have a much harder time finding employment, especially hospital employment, in my neck of the woods than BSNs do. The largest academic hospital in the area won't be hiring ADNs at all starting in January.

Specializes in Med/surg, Quality & Risk.
Most baristas already have a bachelor's degree? We're talking a coffee server, right?

Yeah. A coffee server with a history, English, philosophy etc. degree that is underemployed. They weren't saying that it was required to be a barista!

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