All of a sudden an ASN is no good anymore - page 2
by pattyslattery 17,215 Views | 93 Comments
I worked my behind off for this ASN. I'd been in college for years until then with the usual useless liberal arts degree because "if I did what I loved I'd never work a day in my life" and was completely useless when it came to... Read More
- 0Aug 30, '12 by Cold StethoscopeQuote from pattyslatteryI don't understand that statement. Are you too old for your continuing education classes?And I'm too darn old to go back to school.
And yet, many ADN RNs have jobs, and many will in the future, especially those with experience. You may run into discrimination based on your age, which is common in many professions; I hope you'll not tell a hiring manager that you're too old to go back to school, and that you're in that place where you want to enjoy life.
There's no doubt that you have plenty of experience, but don't you have to regularly learn new things, such as the effects and side effects of new drugs, etc.? If you haven't taken a nutrition class, it's something I'd highly recommend, even if you're pretty old.
- 1Aug 30, '12 by metal_m0nkQuote from fakebeeDepends on why they're clueless (if they are). If it's because of the way they were educated, then there may be some weight behind that common conception. If they are clueless despite their education, then the point is moot. In either case, I guess that stats course didn't really mean a whole lot.I'm pretty sure most of those nurses got an advanced degree so they don't have to hold anyone's penlight, and possibly some body parts. I have to agree that the constant bashing of BSN prepared nurses is becoming irritating- they can't all be clueless can they- that's statistically impossible. Oops I forgot you didn't take statistics...and yes that is a very bad attempt at a joke. Hope life gets better.Last edit by metal_m0nk on Aug 30, '12
- 3Aug 30, '12 by anabellatx1I understand some of your frustration because I've talked to RN's who have had their Associate and work with it for years with no problem. I'm talking about nurses with 15 + yrs of experience who never saw the need of going back to school.
Most hospitals here in TX are requiring their nurses to complete their BSN if they don't have it. It's just how it is now and is probably for our own good. That's going to push me to eventually get my Master's degree and possibly teach
Good luck and i hope you see the positive side to the new requirements.
- 5Aug 30, '12 by anotheroneUgh. I have a BSN. I am a good student so it wasn't that difficult at all. I chose a BSN because I was young, wanted a college degree from a 4 year school. A Bachelors not an associates. Because I had scholarships to many 4 year schools it was just as costly, it would/will be easier to transition to another field/second degree if I have a bachelors already. It only took 4 years a asn would take 2-3. I was super young so didn't see the rush. Also where I lived at the time, MANY hospitals did not hire non BSNs, experience or not. Once one big hospital starts that, all of them will. Even some of the LTCs require it in that area. They can do that. IF the public thinks it's better, administration will do what they want. I CAN irrigate a foley, place an ng tube. Where I work now we have many people with BSNs and they are not worse nurses than the ASNs. Not at all. I have only been working as a nurse for few years and have helped insert many NG tubes, foleys, troubleshoot vacs. The people I helped were new grads, 20 year veterans, bsns and asns, diplomas etc. Only our manager has a MSN , I believe. Of course anyone with experience in these TASKS will be better able to them, as they should. My teachers all had at least MSNs and most still practiced in the fields they taught, many at the bedside. A few of the med surg instructors worked in ICU or med surg, peds worked in peds, ob in in LD . etc. They were VERY educated on pharm/patho in those fields and knew how to do any procedures any nurse in those areas is excpected to know how to do. I also don't think experience always equals expertese. for some it is just more time doing the wrong thing.Last edit by anotherone on Aug 30, '12
- 4Aug 30, '12 by SL2014Your frustration is duly noted and understandable. To answer your question: Change. The world is in a constant state of change. You can choose to be bitter and angry or you can change with the world. See it in a positive way; it gives you a reason to go back to school, learn more and be a better nurse. Not saying that ADNs are lacking in education but you will undoubtably learn SOMETHING gaining a BSN.Also, having BSN nurses statistically makes a facility look better, I believe this is something that is looked at when trying for MAGNET status.I wish you well and hope that you see this as an incentive to improve.Sincerely, a BSN new grad that couldn't hold your penlight.
- 9Aug 30, '12 by whatdoIdonow?I'm an ADN nurse who was also annoyed to find through job hunting that I would need to get my BSN if I want to get into the hospitals. I have kids in college right now, and a BA of my own in a social science field, so I had not intended of going this route. But, once I got over it, I realized its for my own good. I don't want to be limited in my future by my education. I'm no spring chicken, either! But, who knows how long I will live or need to stay on the job???
I think there is value in an advanced degree. I think the subject matter of nursing is covered more thoroughly. For example, my BSN program will require a 3 credit nutrition course (my adn program gave us 2 weeks). My BSN program also requires two separate assessment courses for 6 credit hours (my ADN had assessment mixed in the curriculum and since that was always in fast forward, 7 weeks segments, there was little time to focus on it). I find it very telling that the subjects covered more in depth in the BSN program are the exact topics I feel shaky on from my ADN program. As for statistics, I was required to take it for my ADN program. Chemistry is NOT required in either program, and I think it should be so I plan to do that on my own.
The way I see it, any BSN who is lacking in hands on skills (NG tubes, foleys etc) will pick that up quick on the job. Then, they will surpass those with only ADN education (like myself) because of the more indepth nature of their education. Can an ADN educate themselves further to be competitive? Sure. But, why not get the official credit for it by earning the degree?
"Life's about changing, nothing ever stays the same..."
- 13Aug 30, '12 by Paco-RNThe problem I have with your post is that you have generalized all BSNs and higher as being inferior to you. It's quite possible that *gasp* there may be one or two BSNs out there that are the exceptions to your rule? I can bet top dollar that there are.
Quote from pattyslatteryI graduated from my BSN program with a 62-year-old woman who runs circles around the 20-somethings. She obviously was not too old to go back to school. And she was a summa cum laude I might add. Clearly, age is just a number for the lucky ones.And I'm too darn old to go back to school.Last edit by Paco-RN on Aug 31, '12
- 5Aug 31, '12 by kcmylornI have to agree with where Patty is coming from. i too am a diploma/ADN RN, and an older experienced nurses- The discrimination didn't start with the ADN/Diploma Nurse, It started with the BSN's
It started when the BSN's first started coming into the hospital areas for jobs- that way way way back for me back into the early 1980's. I used to say to other ADN'diploma nurses I worked with- didn't their motheres ever teach them how to behave in some one else's living room? At that time there were very very few BSN's in the hospital- even amongst the managers. The BSN's even though out numbered, came in with superiority attitudes. Then gradually the managers were required to have BSN's and with that came strenght in discriminatory and derrogatory remards toward the ADN/diploma nurses; .to the point where it was done openly and meant to exclude the ADN/diploma nurse because "we were beneath" them/the BSN's- they let you know it also. But we, ADN's/diplomas, were the ones who were the skill and critical thinking backbones of those floors because we were taught it from jump street. The BSN's were funmbling and litterly tripping over their own 2 feet.
So you take years of this as a older nurse who has paid their dues and gathered their experience and then you come accross not only this superiority attutude but now there is wide spread age discrimination and the retoric "MUST have a BSN", BSN required' on 99% of all the job postings, Then you find that age is now a factor. I have even had this godd awful BSN co-worker talk down and demean me in front of others-I personally had this occur: I was verbally hammered one day by a co-worker BSN That's Nursing 101 sweetie, you know sweety- a BSN who is have my ages with only 1/3 of my years of experience. My only reply was: oh yes oh great one, I am a old nurse and now I all of a sudden know nothing" as she was now inventing her own chemotherapy- calling 5-FU--- 4 FU I didn't know whether to laugh in her face or spit in it. That is the feelings and reaction this kind of blind arrogance inspires in me.
So yes, I can appreciate from a very personal level - where patty is coming from. It is not us older nurses with experience that do not have the communication skills, it's these younger generation of BSN's who have no manners,no learned socialization process, no respect for ANYbody- including their patients. and especially the patient's families. I have many a time had to bail them out of something they said to a family member that offended.