ADN's being pushed out - page 10

I work for a large Magnet hospital. As nursing becomes more popular, and nurses not in short supply, I have noticed something ominous has being going on lately. Several of our older and very seasoned... Read More

  1. Visit  Laurie52 profile page
    3
    Quote from avengingspirit1
    Had Stat., quantitative analysis, calculus and other high level math courses over and above that in other RN-BSN Program. Also community & public health clinical rotations well as surgery and psych. There is nothing an RN-BSN program would give me that I don't already have; except of course $20,000 of debt. You seem to have a hard time believing what just about everyone else knows is a reality. That higher education is a business. And just like any other business they say it is in one's best interest necessity to purchase their products and services.

    As I've always said, I think it's great if a nurse chooses to further their education. But for an accomplished nurse with years of experience who has proven the ability to acquire knowledge in other ways besides spending another $20,000-$30,000 at Joe's University to be forced to go back to school is stupid, narrow-minded and probably one of the best ways to lose our most experienced nurses.

    I'm sure there are some RN-BSN programs out there that may give nurses without a degree in another area something they could use in the field. But they are few and far in between. I have to go by what nurses have said who have already went through it: That it was a big waste of time and money. When there was talk of making a Bachelor's Degree 3 years instead of 4, the colleges and universities screamed bloody murder because of all the money they would lose. Now it's being talked about again. They're also talking about making a law degree two years instead of three.

    The so-called nursing leaders ( I say that because I don't consider them my leaders) are trying pushing this higher education garbage at a time when people can't afford it and the student loan debt has reached over 1 trillion dollars with enormous default rates, topping that of credit card debt. It just shows you how out of touch nursing elitists are. What they're trying to do is kind of sleazy. And with a news station now possibly interested, I'm going try to make it kind of over.
    If nursing wants to be in an equal partnership with the rest of health care professionals, then the entry level into practice simply has to change. Why is it that physical therapists, occupational therapists, pharmacists and dietitians have all scene the handwriting on the wall but nursing continues to bury its head in the sand about its own future? Denial ain't just a river in Egypt!
  2. Visit  netglow profile page
    4
    "physical therapists, occupational therapists, pharmacists and dietitians"

    Don't understand your reliance on higher education helping the nursing profession get "equal partnership"

    -None of the providers listed above are employed in large numbers like nurses are. The push to reduce numbers dramatically does not apply to those professions as it does nursing. Hospitals work to find a way to reduce nursing census constantly.

    -None of the above professionals, are routinely being replaced in practice with uneducated/unlicensed personnel. Nursing suffers greatly from reduced opportunities to practice due to the replacement by non-nursing staff. This replacement or substitution has been an economic positive for healthcare business and will continue to broaden.
  3. Visit  BostonFNP profile page
    1
    Quote from netglow
    "physical therapists, occupational therapists, pharmacists and dietitians"

    Don't understand your reliance on higher education helping the nursing profession get "equal partnership"

    -None of the providers listed above are employed in large numbers like nurses are. The push to reduce numbers dramatically does not apply to those professions as it does nursing. Hospitals work to find a way to reduce nursing census constantly.

    -None of the above professionals, are routinely being replaced in practice with uneducated/unlicensed personnel. Nursing suffers greatly from reduced opportunities to practice due to the replacement by non-nursing staff. This replacement or substitution has been an economic positive for healthcare business and will continue to broaden.
    Playing a bit of devil's advocate here but if education isn't important to nursing why not replace nurses with certificate-level unlicensed personnel?
    Nurse_Diane likes this.
  4. Visit  Orca profile page
    2
    Quote from kcmylorn
    They want nurses to gain advanced degrees then they don't want to pay wage compensation deserving of that advanced degree. I notice that is what the CEO's cry baby about when they defend their high salaries.
    This is nothing more than a talking point for CEOs. They want to be able to tell the public that their nurses have the best training available (although that is debatable, IMO). It's like the CEOs who throw around the phrase "quality care", while doing everything they can to ensure that it is impossible for us to deliver it.
    brandy1017 and gummi bear like this.
  5. Visit  netglow profile page
    3
    Quote from BostonFNP
    Playing a bit of devil's advocate here but if education isn't important to nursing why not replace nurses with certificate-level unlicensed personnel?
    Boston, that is exactly what has been happening for a few years now. Where have you been hiding yourself?
  6. Visit  avengingspirit1 profile page
    8
    Just had this conversation with a pharmacist who gave credence to what I've said all along. That this degree elevation is all just a dog and pony show. He told me a doctorate level pharmacist has no more pharmacy knowledge than a master's level pharmacist. Every healthcare profession has been trying to raise their statuses to being almost doctor-like in an effort to vie for a higher pay scale. It hasn't worked. They thought they would be able to bill insurance companies more for services performed by doctorate level PTs and OTs but insurance companies are paying the same for services rendered by PTs and OTS whether they have a master's or a doctorate. The only thing they cared about was that the person providing the services was licensed. I remember when Hahnemann University first changed its physical therapy program from an entry-level master's to a doctorate. It was still a three program but now you graduate with a doctorate instead of a master's.

    Wake up nurses! You're being fed a lot of garbage by those who stand to benefit by having you run back to school. Those are mainly the colleges and universities, the loan lending companies and the healthcare facilities who now try to say that they provide better care because more of their nurses have BSNs by writing a few more papers in APA format on current nursing issues and because they paid thew ANA thousands or dollars for what just about all nurses say is a fake seal of approval called "Magnet Recognition".

    And by the way, there is every indication that facilities will start using more certified med techs. These people don't care whether or not you took out a second mortgage on your house or tapped into your nest egg to pay for that BSN. If they can find a way to try to provide care more cheaply, they'll do it. School districts are already firing school nurses and having teachers and administrators dispense medications to students. Is is right, safe or legal? Who knows. Is it being done? Absolutely.
    Zellena, HazelLPN, brandy1017, and 5 others like this.
  7. Visit  BostonFNP profile page
    0
    Avenging, how long have you been an RN?
  8. Visit  Susie2310 profile page
    0
    Quote from Susie2310
    avengingspirit1, if you truly believe you have fulfilled all the coursework for an RN-BSN, have you contacted a university/nursing program etc. to ask how someone in your position should proceed? If you have done so, did the nursing program concede that you had completed all the coursework for an RN-BSN? What was their response? If you weren't happy with the nursing program's response did you take your concerns to the highest levels of university administration?
    avengingspirit1, I'm still hoping you will answer my question. I don't believe you have addressed this question previously.
  9. Visit  BlueDevil,DNP profile page
    5
    So, Avengingspirit is going to put an article on The Smoking Gun and bring down nursing education all by him or herself simply because s/he doesn't want to bother getting a BSN. The righteous indignation in those posts is amusing. (LOVED the bit quoting Nursing Spectrum as if it were a credible source, loved it. Priceless.) I doubt the officials at Schools of Nursing at Yale, Penn, Duke, etc have detectives trying desperately trying to determine whom Avenging is so that s/he may be stopped/silenced. Nor are all the others shaking in their boots fearing this hard hitting expos on the nursing education "scam."

    Bruce almightly, some people are thick. It is an exquisitely simply proposition folks: complete your BSN/DNP/Master of Letters in advanced Dog Whispering or not. It is up to you, but for the love of all that is holy, quit whining about it. The decision and consequences are yours. Time to grow up, make a choice, and move on. Good grief.
    subee, Overland1, sallyrnrrt, and 2 others like this.
  10. Visit  avengingspirit1 profile page
    3
    It's always amazing that when someone disagrees with the propaganda academic elitists try to postulate, they call it whining. To be honest, do you really think I care about whether or not they can figure out who am? I have said the same things on other sites and have given my full name and soon they know who I am here also.

    I don't have have to do this all by myself anymore. A major station is interested in the story because many others have started to realize that degree inflation is the biggest racket going today. And no, I don't think I'll go out and spend $20,000 for a BSN after earning a business degree and a 3 yr nursing diploma just to keep college professors employed in their fantasy world of academia so they can be spared the experience of having to work in the real world.

    As I said before, if some people want to spend the rest of their lives earning alphabet letters after their name and probably having it paid for by the universities they work for, that's fine. But don't push it on the rest of us. Because now we're starting to push back.

    At a time when all you hear on the news is the record amount of student loan debt along with record numbers of those defaulting on those loans, the so-called nursing leaders (I say that because they are not my leaders) want to push their higher degree agenda. Talk about being out of touch with reality!

    To all academic elitists who I must say are the most venal, prevaricating bunch of people I have ever known to exist, enjoy those nice cushy positions for now. Soon you may be needing to polish up those resumes.

    And the Aiken study that nursing leaders love to trumpet as being the Holy Grail of explanations as to why nursing should run back to four year schools; to believe that was not flawed or biased, now that's a reason to laugh.
  11. Visit  avengingspirit1 profile page
    1
    I've been an RN for nine years now. Nowhere near as long as many of the great nurses who are still out there treating patients on the floor after 20 and 30 years. They have my utmost respect. After earning my degree in business, the more I learned about the corporate world. the less I wanted to be a part of it. I came to nursing to help people, not to increase shareholders wealth. I find it a shame that self-serving nursing elitists don't think that way.
    brandy1017 likes this.
  12. Visit  CrunchRN profile page
    2
    Avengingspirit1 may be a little bit passionate in her attitude, but she makes some very good points that I think are worth considering. Change the entry into nursing if you wish, but leave all of us who jumped through the hoops and are experienced alone. If we choose to acquire further degrees because that is what we want to do then that is fine, but do not force it unless you want to pay for it.

    I became an RN 20 years ago. I met all the requirements and have kept my license current. I should not have to do anything further.
    Conqueror+ and brandy1017 like this.
  13. Visit  BostonFNP profile page
    3
    Quote from CrunchRN
    Avengingspirit1 may be a little bit passionate in her attitude, but she makes some very good points that I think are worth considering. Change the entry into nursing if you wish, but leave all of us who jumped through the hoops and are experienced alone. If we choose to acquire further degrees because that is what we want to do then that is fine, but do not force it unless you want to pay for it.

    I became an RN 20 years ago. I met all the requirements and have kept my license current. I should not have to do anything further.
    Absolutely.

    The BSN push should be a conversation about the future not the past.
    Conqueror+, brandy1017, and sallyrnrrt like this.

Need Help Searching For Someone's Comment? Enter your keywords in the box below and we will display any comment that matches your keywords.



Nursing Jobs in every specialty and state. Visit today and find your dream job.

Top
close
close