Do you think nursing programs can benefit from more rigorous prerequisites?

[richardgecko]

That is, more sciences/maths in addition to the microbiology/college algebra that is required of us to take to enter most nursing programs?

I find that nursing tends to be very easy to get into in terms of prerequisites and the laxity of GPA requirements. The problem with that is that we find that nursing programs don't necessarily attract the "cream of the crop"...it's almost like anyone can get into it (might not finish/may struggle to get through, but at the very least you can get in)

Another concern is that many nursing students struggle with basic math. So many nursing students don't understand dosage calculations...we were taught dosage under the dimensional analysis model. I took chemistry before changing my major to nursing and took AP chem in high school so dosage problems were a piece of cake to me because I already understood dimensional analysis and conversion. So many of my classmates (and many of the students that come to AllNurses for help) genuinely don't understand unit conversion and it's very telling. For many nursing students, their first exposure to unit conversion and long format calculations is through dosage calc.

One could even say that requiring chemistry/biology prior to nursing can foster a more thorough understanding of pharmacology and cellular function? Not saying we need to have physician-level knowledge of these subjects, but requiring a little more of nursing students can't hurt.

[dcwang]

I can understand about "watered down" classes. I'm in California too, so it's ultra competitive. Basically everyone is pre nursing in my science class. However, what I think is unfair is sometimes schools prefer a 4.0 from CC than a 3.5 from UCLA or UC Berkeley. The classes at UCs are definitely more competitive.

[andrew522]

I don't think taking premed courses are necessary for nursing school to become an RN, but I do think it's essential for NPs who work independently like MDs.

[GoodnessFlows]

I don't understand the big deal about struggling to learn something. I believe we set ourselves up for failure when we believe that concepts should always come easy. How boring is that? The people that believe there shouldn't be a struggle every once in awhile are truly setting themselves up for failure down the road, because obviously as humans we are NOT all knowing. How often have I had to sit with a concept for awhile, before the light bulb turned on and how amazing I felt after. Every time that I struggle just a bit, and then finally master a concept using sheer grit and determination, I grow to know that with enough effort I can do just about anything. I have instilled this type of mindset in my own children and it has profoundly changed them as students.

That said, it doesn't have to be a horrific struggle, and if a student sits with a counselor they should be given a road map that charts a path of courses, that if taken in order will unfold beautifully, with each course/concept building on the prior concept. In California, most programs expect, biology, chemistry, algebra, statistics and then anatomy, physiology, and microbiology on top of all the numerous co-requirements. So, if taken in order, yes, it helps dramatically, however it does not guarantee that a student will skate through a program. A little struggle every once in awhile is perfectly fine in my book! :)

[SopranoKris, MSN, RN, NP]

Considering many of our pre-req courses have pre-reqs themselves (e.g. Biology before Anatomy or Micro), I think our program has just the right amount. The only course I would say that should be required that isn't (it's optional) is Chemistry. I think it's essential to become familiar with dimensional analysis. I pass my med math tests with 100% because I'm not confused by dimensional analysis and I owe that to Chemistry.

While we're allowed to take co-requisite courses during the nursing program, there's really no way you'd have the time to do these in addition to the nursing curriculum. So, everyone completes the pre-reqs & co-reqs before applying to the program. Plus, completion of co-reqs gives you bonus points on your application.

Pre-reqs are: English/Writing, Intermediate Algebra, Anatomy (which has a Biology pre-req), Intro to Psych, Healthy Lifestyles & BLS certification

Co-reqs are: Physiology, Microbiology (lab is option, but required if you're going for BSN), Human Growth & Development, Pharmacology, Humanities credit & Communication credit.

If you're going on to BSN after ADN, then the prudent student would also complete History, Organic Chem (requires Gen Chem first) and a 200-level Sociology course, too.

I think we have a very well-rounded requirements list. I think requiring Chem is the only thing that's missing.

[AspiringNurseMW]

I understand where OP is coming from. In NY, even for the community colleges Bio and/or chem was a required pre-req for A&P which was a pre-req for entry into the nursing program. AND you had to already be enrolled in the school for at least a semester, you couldn't transfer into the nursing program directly.

However I moved to PA this year. The pre-requisites to get into the nursing program is PAX RN & Math 101. That's it. So technically you can complete A&P & Micro DURING the nursing program. What the likelihood of that is I am unsure. As a result the program has 1500 applicants for 150. They do give priorities for higher GPA & Pax RN score and I'm sure the nursing board prefers students who will have A& 1 & 2 complete before they begin the program. You can't really succeed in the program if you don't understand A&P.

I think part of the reason is to encourage enrollment. ALOT of people enroll with the idea that they are going to complete the pre-requisites and begin nursing the following year, and when you don't get in on your first try you keep taking more pre-reqs and then transfer to a BSN program or you switch majors. Its probably set up that way to encourage a large amount of students to enroll. But the program is also very sought after around here and the graduates have a high rate of employment. Of the 150 in the last few years the lowest number of NCLEX test-takers I have seen is 129. And the pass rate has been 85%, 82%, 94%, 92%.

But this past week we began the chapter on Chemistry/Bio chemistry in A&P. Chem or Bio is NOT a pre-requisite at my school. I could feel the way the majority of my class was at a COMPLETE loss. The last time I took Chem was 10 years ago, and with a bad/lazy teacher. So I remembered NOTHING. But as a result I made sure to read the chapter and take notes BEFORE class. And use all the resources that came with my book to understand the concepts. So I, unlike of the majority of the class, was not lost.

My point being.... i think the written minimum to apply is lower to encourage enrollment in the school but the actual students who get accepted are top of the class. But again this is a community college.... Im sure what you are describing is a lot more common in for-profit schools

[GoodnessFlows]

I agree. It truly depends where you are applying. I had no clue that some schools have such minimal requirements, and so I would agree they should definitely be more rigorous. A working knowledge of chem definitely helps with so many other subjects, specifically anatomy, but especially physiology. I always thought that algebra, stats, chem, anatomy, physio, and micro were the weed out courses. Where I go to school, there is no skating through!