masters degrees without ever working at the bedside?!

  1. 0 Just found out in my state that anyone....lawyer, baker, housewife...etc; may complete a quick, streamline program which makes them a Master Of Nursing Sciences without ever having been a bedside RN. Does this mean that there will be nursing professors who have no idea what it means to be a real nurse?! Just a bunch of book-schooled people who have no calling, love, nor understanding of patient populations and real time experience?! I am appalled and wondering how this is allowed by any nursing board. As well, this "Master" could go right on to become a PHD in nursing, practice as a nurse practioner without ever working at the bedside. Please comment on how you all think about this. I don't think anyone who has not been a real nurse at the bedside should be teaching nursing. I am appalled!!!!!!!! Help me understand the logic of this beyond the colleges wanting more money in any way they can get it.
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  3. Visit  nightengalegoddess profile page

    About nightengalegoddess

    Joined Feb '11; Posts: 306; Likes: 349.

    38 Comments so far...

  4. Visit  traumaRUs profile page
    4
    This isn't something new - been going on for many years. There are several sides to this: many of us who were very experienced nurses prior to becoming APNs feel that direct-entry APNs might be lacking.

    However, others feel that there is no relationship between being a nurse and being an APN.
    VICEDRN, nursel56, ckh23, and 1 other like this.
  5. Visit  sirI profile page
    1
    Agree with traumaRUs. This is not new. You will find a lot of discussion on this topic in the NP forum.
    Esme12 likes this.
  6. Visit  llg profile page
    6
    This has been the case for decades. It's nothing new. Also, remember that physicians graduate from medical school, PA's graduate, etc. without having practiced at the bedside all the time -- except for the experience they get as a student. So do airline pilots, attorneys, etc. You go to school, you join the workforce as a novice.

    Your worries about such people practicing in advanced roles are grounded in the belief that such new grads are immediately given advanced positions -- without any supervision -- immediately after graduation. That is not the intention of such direct-entry master's programs and it rarely happens in real life. Such nurses do not enter a world of independent practice. They work for employers ... and it is the employer's responsibility to assure that the people they hire are appropriate for the responsibilities they are being given. A responsible employer will choose to hire someone appropriate for the job and provide sufficient resources/supervision of those employees.

    No reputable school would hire a new grad (regardless of their academic preparation) as a clinical instructor. No decent hospital would hire one as a manager, CNS, etc. Those graduates usually get jobs appropriate for their level of experience (often as staff nurses or in some other role where they will have the resources & supervision necessary to support their role transition) ... but move quickly into more advanced positions once they successfully make that transition. Their advanced education streamlines their career progression, but it does not eliminate the need for them to get some experience before they are ready to lead.
    Benedina, lovedijah, MedChica, and 3 others like this.
  7. Visit  nightengalegoddess profile page
    1
    Thank you for clarification. I work at bedside in ICU and not pursuing degrees....rather pursuing advancement through certifications and employment at Level 1 hospitals. So when I found this out I was floored. Just not in the degree loop. Thanks!
    Esme12 likes this.
  8. Visit  dirtyhippiegirl profile page
    1
    I think the issue of direct entry Masters holders who end up going into teaching or management is a more interesting issue, myself.

    I went to school (BSN) with a second career woman who then directly went into a Masters program upon graduation. She had stated to our clinical group several times that her only intention was to go into management, without bedside experience, that she had "already done [her] time" in a previous job and that she was "too old to work from the ground up."

    I do wonder where she is now, what she is doing, and if that management job will ever materialize given her complete lack of bedside experience. On the other hand, I had friends who went into LTC and we being promoted to ADON within six months of being hired...
    Fiona59 likes this.
  9. Visit  GrnTea profile page
    3
    Also, I would be astonished if a nursing school hired a MN with no bedside experience to be a clinical instructor. I mean, come on. You might not have thought that much of your faculty, but they get audited by the accrediting agencies and they aren't that dumb. OTOH, I have known nursing management people with MNs who are excellent, excellent nursing managers. They'd be lousy at the bedside, and would be the first to tell you that, but "calling and love" don't have that much to do with it.
    nursel56, llg, and Altra like this.
  10. Visit  classicdame profile page
    3
    don't you think the employer will ask about experience as well as education?
    gummi bear, klone, and GrnTea like this.
  11. Visit  Altra profile page
    1
    I think you are confusing academic degree, professional licensure, and suitability for a particular position/employment. These are 3 different things.
    llg likes this.
  12. Visit  2dogsandaguy profile page
    1
    I have a question for you....what did you do before applying to nursing school?

    2daag
    Altra likes this.
  13. Visit  SNB1014 profile page
    4
    i think of this as a similar story line to many of my (relatively) new graduates from my undergrad college....many of my friends who couldn't get jobs upon graduation or at graduation still didn't know what they wanted to be when they grew up decided to enroll in their MBA/MPH/masters of the universe program.

    the joke is my husband got a job immediately after graduation for a national defense contractor and has been working there since 2009. apparently, a new MBA grad got the next level position he applied for because my husband doesn't have "the necessary education". what a crock of crayons!!! how can you be a "master" of a field you have never worked in??
    Fiona59, lovedijah, Szasz_is_Right, and 1 other like this.
  14. Visit  mclennan profile page
    5
    Ohhhhhh @llg, I beg to differ about "no reputable" places would hire new grads into management or teaching! I worked for a year for one of the largest, most "reputable," well-known, high profile Magnet-status, Joint Commission-accredited hospitals in the country and you bet I had a 36 year old manager, in charge of 20 other nurses, many with decades more experience than she. She had BSN, RN, MBA AND MHA! But no bedside other than her clinicals and probably some CNA when she was a teenager. She was *awful*. Universally despised by every nurse on the unit and not favorably viewed by other management either. When we'd complain about her GLARING lack of experience, the familiar old refrain went "Joint Commission and Magnet want MBA/MHA degreed managers, that is the top priority." The unit morale and quality of care crumbled under her pitifully inadequate management, drama blossomed, and after she fired some EXCELLENT crusty old bats, I jumped ship.

    Accreditation and Magnet status are making healthcare and nursing into a numbers game and acronym contest. It's forcing the focus onto maximum reimbursement and marketing and away from quality care.
  15. Visit  subee profile page
    3
    Quote from llg
    This has been the case for decades. It's nothing new. Also, remember that physicians graduate from medical school, PA's graduate, etc. without having practiced at the bedside all the time -- except for the experience they get as a student. So do airline pilots, attorneys, etc. You go to school, you join the workforce as a novice.

    Your worries about such people practicing in advanced roles are grounded in the belief that such new grads are immediately given advanced positions -- without any supervision -- immediately after graduation. That is not the intention of such direct-entry master's programs and it rarely happens in real life. Such nurses do not enter a world of independent practice. They work for employers ... and it is the employer's responsibility to assure that the people they hire are appropriate for the responsibilities they are being given. A responsible employer will choose to hire someone appropriate for the job and provide sufficient resources/supervision of those employees.

    No reputable school would hire a new grad (regardless of their academic preparation) as a clinical instructor. No decent hospital would hire one as a manager, CNS, etc. Those graduates usually get jobs appropriate for their level of experience (often as staff nurses or in some other role where they will have the resources & supervision necessary to support their role transition) ... but move quickly into more advanced positions once they successfully make that transition. Their advanced education streamlines their career progression, but it does not eliminate the need for them to get some experience before they

    are ready to lead.
    MD's just out of medschool are not analagous to graduates of direct-entry NP programs. A new doc grad can do NOTHING without internship and residency. Our "residencies" are the years we spent practicing nursing before we enter school to become an "advanced practice" nurse. How can you be an advanced practice nurse without the opportunity to learn that enormous body of knowledge we learn on the job(called "the basics").I have no respect for direct-entry programs I see an NP for my regular medical care (doctor doesn't see healthy patients. She takes my BP, 12-lead EKG, gets useless blood work but the only really useful thing she does that I like, is take the wax out of my ears. Is this ADVANCED practice? This is all stuff I can do myself but to get prescriptions filled I have to do this dance once a year.


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