masters degrees without ever working at the bedside?!

0402 · Nov 14, 2012

I have an MSN and did a MEPN program. I am not an APRN; my MSN program was a CNL program. As a new grad, I did a new grad residency, just like any other new grad. For me, part of the decision was not earning another bachelor's degree, the fact that I had years of management experience and might want to go back into it as an RN (once I had bedside experience) and going to through the best program available to me, at that time. We are military, and I was restricted in where I went to school, location-wise, as well as being able to complete school within the timeframe that we would be at that duty station. Yes, I could have done an accelerated BSN program (ADN was not an option d/t the length of waiting lists where we were stationed), but the quality would have been lower than the program I did (I'm not saying that getting an MSN made it higher quality- it was the actual program, regardless of degree). I don't really see how this is "disgusting," but maybe I would have learned that, if I had gotten a BSN. I have never had a problem getting hired- and yes, I make as much as any other bedside RN with the same amount of experience. I would like to put my MSN to use, through obtaining some post-master's certificate and trying to move "up," but for now, moving every couple of years isn't allowing that to happen. I am getting bedside experience in the meantime.

I have more respect for nurses who've worked as CNAs and NPs who worked as nurses for a couple years before.

See, I have respect for people who have earned it and who are good at their jobs. Do you ask every RN you work with whether or not they were techs/ CNAs before they went to school or do you observe what type of RN they are, and just as importantly how good of a team player they are? I have worked with many RNs who were CNAs or LPNs, and made horrible RNs- and every variation on that statement is true, too- RNs who were CNAs or LPNs and are amazing RNs, as well as both good and bad RNs who had no previous medical experience of any kind. I care more about the person I am working with now, in the role they have now, than what they did before.

ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP · Nov 14, 2012

Experience is worth more than a degree. It proves that you are competent and willing to work your way up and not afraid to get your hands dirty. Can't say that if you have no work experience to back that up.I can't take an NP seriously who has no years at the bedside to back it up.OTE=0402;7030758]I have an MSN and did a MEPN program. I am not an APRN; my MSN program was a CNL program. As a new grad, I did a new grad residency, just like any other new grad. For me, part of the decision was not earning another bachelor's degree, the fact that I had years of management experience and might want to go back into it as an RN (once I had bedside experience) and going to through the best program available to me, at that time. We are military, and I was restricted in where I went to school, location-wise, as well as being able to complete school within the timeframe that we would be at that duty station. Yes, I could have done an accelerated BSN program (ADN was not an option d/t the length of waiting lists where we were stationed), but the quality would have been lower than the program I did (I'm not saying that getting an MSN made it higher quality- it was the actual program, regardless of degree). I don't really see how this is "disgusting," but maybe I would have learned that, if I had gotten a BSN. I have never had a problem getting hired- and yes, I make as much as any other bedside RN with the same amount of experience. I would like to put my MSN to use, through obtaining some post-master's certificate and trying to move "up," but for now, moving every couple of years isn't allowing that to happen. I am getting bedside experience in the meantime.I have more respect for nurses who've worked as CNAs and NPs who worked as nurses for a couple years before.See, I have respect for people who have earned it and who are good at their jobs. Do you ask every RN you work with whether or not they were techs/ CNAs before they went to school or do you observe what type of RN they are, and just as importantly how good of a team player they are? I have worked with many RNs who were CNAs or LPNs, and made horrible RNs- and every variation on that statement is true, too- RNs who were CNAs or LPNs and are amazing RNs, as well as both good and bad RNs who had no previous medical experience of any kind. I care more about the person I am working with now, in the role they have now, than what they did before.

ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP · Nov 14, 2012

Experience is worth more than a degree. It proves that you are competent and willing to work your way up and not afraid to get your hands dirty. Can't say that if you have no work experience to back that up.I can't take an NP seriously who has no years at the bedside to back it up.[OTE=0402;7030758]I have an MSN and did a MEPN program. I am not an APRN; my MSN program was a CNL program. As a new grad, I did a new grad residency, just like any other new grad. For me, part of the decision was not earning another bachelor's degree, the fact that I had years of management experience and might want to go back into it as an RN (once I had bedside experience) and going to through the best program available to me, at that time. We are military, and I was restricted in where I went to school, location-wise, as well as being able to complete school within the timeframe that we would be at that duty station. Yes, I could have done an accelerated BSN program (ADN was not an option d/t the length of waiting lists where we were stationed), but the quality would have been lower than the program I did (I'm not saying that getting an MSN made it higher quality- it was the actual program, regardless of degree). I don't really see how this is "disgusting," but maybe I would have learned that, if I had gotten a BSN. I have never had a problem getting hired- and yes, I make as much as any other bedside RN with the same amount of experience. I would like to put my MSN to use, through obtaining some post-master's certificate and trying to move "up," but for now, moving every couple of years isn't allowing that to happen. I am getting bedside experience in the meantime.I have more respect for nurses who've worked as CNAs and NPs who worked as nurses for a couple years before.See, I have respect for people who have earned it and who are good at their jobs. Do you ask every RN you work with whether or not they were techs/ CNAs before they went to school or do you observe what type of RN they are, and just as importantly how good of a team player they are? I have worked with many RNs who were CNAs or LPNs, and made horrible RNs- and every variation on that statement is true, too- RNs who were CNAs or LPNs and are amazing RNs, as well as both good and bad RNs who had no previous medical experience of any kind. I care more about the person I am working with now, in the role they have now, than what they did before.

0402 · Nov 14, 2012

Experience in no way proves that you are competent- it merely proves that you have experience (in this case, in another role). It's like saying that education makes you smarter- it, alone, only makes you more educated. I guess I could go to work tonight and survey the RNs that I'm working with to find out if they were techs before they became RNs, but really, it's irrelevant, because I can look at the schedule and know whether or not I'm working with good RNs, based on the fact that I have worked with them before, as RNs, regardless of their previous life and work experience.

mariebailey, MSN, RN · Nov 14, 2012

Just found out in my state that anyone....lawyer, baker, housewife...etc; may complete a quick, streamline program which makes them a Master Of Nursing Sciences without ever having been a bedside RN. Does this mean that there will be nursing professors who have no idea what it means to be a real nurse?! Just a bunch of book-schooled people who have no calling, love, nor understanding of patient populations and real time experience?! I am appalled and wondering how this is allowed by any nursing board. As well, this "Master" could go right on to become a PHD in nursing, practice as a nurse practioner without ever working at the bedside. Please comment on how you all think about this. I don't think anyone who has not been a real nurse at the bedside should be teaching nursing. I am appalled!!!!!!!! Help me understand the logic of this beyond the colleges wanting more money in any way they can get it.

I'm just wondering why you didn't look into these programs (the prerequisites, scope of practice, overall intent of the program, etc.) prior to posting all this inaccurate information. A baker cannot be admitted to the program unless the baker happens to have, at a minimum, a bachelor's degree in a non-nursing field. It is not your state that accredited these programs; it is the American Nurses Credentialing Center. This isn't new; these programs have been around since 2005. The assumptions that people in these programs have "no calling, love....want more $ any way they can get it" - you're talking about your fellow nurses, so stop alienating them b/c you're uncomfortable with their educational pathway. Finally, it's spelled "practitioner" & "Nightingale".

elkpark · Nov 15, 2012

This isn't new; these programs have been around since 2005.

(Actually, much longer than that. The graduate program I attended in the early '90s (as a traditional, experienced-RN student) had a direct-entry program that had been around for well over a decade (close to 20 years?) at that time.)

llg, PhD, RN · Nov 15, 2012

I worked with a graduate of one such program back in 1985.

RNperdiem, RN · Nov 15, 2012

Experience is the most useful, merciless and exacting teacher you will ever have.

You can't learn to swim by just reading the swimming manual.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Nov 15, 2012

I was in the direct enty program at Columbia University in NYC. Their position is that being an ARNP had absolutely nothing to do with being a bedside nurse.
To make a long story short....I left the program, am getting a year of bedside exp, and then going to a different school for my ARNP......

I work with some of the Columbia M.S. students and am very disturbed by what a mediocre school it has become.

mariebailey, MSN, RN · Nov 16, 2012

I worked with a graduate of one such program back in 1985.

Really? I stand corrected! The CNL program came around later, but I didn't realize direct-entry MSN programs were around back before Dirty Dancing made it to the big screen.

elkpark · Nov 16, 2012

Really? I stand corrected! The CNL program came around later, but I didn't realize direct-entry MSN programs were around back before Dirty Dancing made it to the big screen.

Yes, the CNL role, specifically, is a fairly recent invention -- but direct entry programs preparing people in advanced practice roles have been aroud for decades.

mariebailey, MSN, RN · Nov 17, 2012

Experience is the most useful, merciless and exacting teacher you will ever have.
You can't learn to swim by just reading the swimming manual.

Of course, nursing is not swimming. It wouldn't hurt to take some initiative & look something up every now & then.