Any ADN-BSN programs without ridiculous papers?

[adnrnstudent]

Taking my 1st ADN-BSN class. Thinking of dropping it with only 1 week left.

1st class and already a 6 to 8 page paper. A concept analysis of 1 of the following 4 words: Caring, Hope, Trust, or Fear.

This is absolutely ridiculous. I have absolutely no idea what to say.

The structure of these programs MUST change.

I don't want to write papers every 5 weeks. I want to read a book and take a test.

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

^^^^agreed. Go for it. Or nuclear engineering, or join the merchant marines, or become the next great opera tenor. I'm sure those are all going to be far simpler than these arduous, petty Nursing assignments.

Don't want to do it, don't do it. Little do we care. You can spend the rest of your career at "Shady Lawn About to Lose Our Certification Old Folks Home" telling every one who will listen how smart you were not to waste time on that BSN nonsense. The sycophants in the same crappy situation will all nod in collective agreement.

However, you will never convince those of us that know better.

Putting aside the actual topic at hand, I think it's pretty unfair that you're implying that LTC little more than a last resort for the undereducated.

Hospital jobs aren't some sort of mystical pinnacle of nursing that LTC nurses can only dream about.

As for the actual topic here, well, I agree that any BSN level curriculum will have plenty of papers to write and anyone who really wants their BSN will just have to p*** or get off the pot.

But, c'mon, a "concept analysis about what trust means to you" or whatever it was is just foo-foo nonsense and we all know it.

[dirtyhippiegirl, BSN, RN]

I suppose it's a matter of philosophy and what constitutes sufficient foundational education.

Much of education in many fields isn't strictly needed in order to practice the vocation. However, foundational education does allow one to more easily understand the systems or situations that they are studying.

So what makes having to write a five page paper on a word any less different than any other piece of foundational education?

[dirtyhippiegirl, BSN, RN]

I would submit that the BSN is quite possibly obsolete. We know that it is not required for good, safe, and competent bedside nursing practice. With the advent of direct RN to MSN programs that can be earned by the RN with an ADN is the same, or only slightly more, time than the RN to BSN programs, and the fact that a very large percentage of ADN students enter their associates RN program already holding BS and MS degrees, what is the purpose of a BSN?

The only purpose I can see for the BSN is for the new high school grad who wants to be a nurse AND wants to have the whole "college experience" at a university, parties and social life included.

Except for the whole host of new grad jobs that require a BSN, rightly or wrongly, to even apply. Unless this was some random attempt at satire on your part. In which case, I strongly agree that a MMSN should be the base entry degree for new nurses. That only gets us closer to kinda being like docs!

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Except for the whole host of new grad jobs that require a BSN, rightly or wrongly, to even apply. Unless this was some random attempt at satire on your part. In which case, I strongly agree that a MMSN should be the base entry degree for new nurses. That only gets us closer to kinda being like docs!

*** There are not new grads jobs that require a BSN. True there are certain hospitals what "require" a BSN but they can (and very often have) changed their mind about this. This jobs could easily be done but ADN or direct entry MSN prepared nurses. The "BSN required" is only a fad that has come and gone several times in my career already.

MSN for entry degree for RN!? LOL, not likely. In our current crappy economy you might find a FEW people willing to invest the time and money into graduate education in order to get a job that pays $20-$25 and hour, requires punching a time clock, is hard physical labor, expected to work nights, weekends and holidays and exposure to various body fluids, but ONLY a few would be willing. I would question the judgement of those who did. After all if one is willing to invest the vast amount of money and time required for graduate education then one cam become qualified for a much better paying and less risky job where you get your weekends and holidays off.

[ixchel]

I thought the ADN bashing was pretty bad but after reading this thread..... WOW.

It would seem that (anecdotally, anyway) the primary differences between ADN and BSN would exist in skills vs. theory/research. You're getting your BSN, so now you're going to focus more on theory, leadership and research. These concepts are more abstract, and so the classes will focus a lot on abstract concepts. Love it or leave it. Not to sound uncaring, but it is what it is. You've already read the textbooks and taken the tests for your ADN. Now you're moving on to other things. There is no point in going back to college if it doesn't challenge you to learn more and occasionally leave your academic comfort zone.

So many comments in the last couple of pages here are really below the belt. The degree that I'm working my butt off for right now is not obsolete. It is valuable to me, and to the countless other people who are taking the time to earn theirs. I am 32 years old, I have a husband and kids, and I do not go and party each weekend with my sorority sisters. You need to leave your assumptions at the door. I study in the free time that I have (I believe the rest of you call that "the hours when you sleep"), I write a crap ton of care plans, assignments, you name it. I am learning about the research process (a topic I have discovered I love), leadership and about the emotional needs of patients in addition to the medical ones. Don't tell me for a second that my degree is pointless, a bad choice, obsolete, whatever. Choosing ADN vs. BSN is a personal choice that we all make, and to tell someone how their choice was wrong is ... well, wrong. You will NEVER convince me that choosing MORE education is a bad or obsolete thing. Never.

It shocks me to hear nurses of all people say that learning more about their world is actually obsolete. Maybe you think the assignments listed by the OP are ridiculous, but clearly the professor who assigned them found value in them and the learning they would induce. How about instead of fighting the system and its "BS" requirements, you step back, look at the bigger picture, and ask yourself what it is you are supposed to be gaining from this experience. If you don't know what that is yet, do some reading in different places (google those words, for instance, and see what variety comes up - and hey! You can share that experience for a page or two of the paper!), and when you complete the assignment, reflect on it. Did you gain something from it? If not, oh, well. Chances are you have classmates who did, though. Not every assignment will be an amazing experience for you, but there is a REASON why your professor found value in it.

P.S. to the person annoyed by the requirement to take physical assessment again - just because you've been doing physical assessments forever, it doesn't mean that the school is going to be willing to give you a degree that says you can do them RIGHT. By that, I don't mean that you are doing them incorrectly, but you have to understand that when a university gives you a degree, they are saying you have a standard minimum skill set. They can't just say, "Oh, you've done that before, so you're okay..."

.......climbing down from my soap box now...........

[macawake, MSN]

Putting aside the actual topic at hand, I think it's pretty unfair that you're implying that LTC little more than a last resort for the undereducated.

Hospital jobs aren't some sort of mystical pinnacle of nursing that LTC nurses can only dream about.

As for the actual topic here, well, I agree that any BSN level curriculum will have plenty of papers to write and anyone who really wants their BSN will just have to p*** or get off the pot.

But, c'mon, a "concept analysis about what trust means to you" or whatever it was is just foo-foo nonsense and we all know it.

I respectfully disagree. I don't know it. My bachelors degree was obtained in Sweden and consists of 180 points or credits, 7,5 of those where "Nursing theory". Not a big part but I found it useful.

If I would have been given the assignment to write a paper about one of the words/concepts hope, trust, fear or caring it wouldn't have been a paper about what the word means to me. Quite frankly, my teachers didn't give a .. about my personal opinion or experiences. What I was required to do was research the word/concept and how it affects patient care.

For example "trust" wouldn't be: "I think trust is such a good thing to have with your patient because I think it gives both me and my patient such a warm fuzzy feeling and warm and fuzzy is sooo nice when your feeling sick blah-blah yadda yadda..".

There is no I in any of the papers I've ever written.

It would likely be something along the lines of: "Patients who lack continuity in their nurse-patient relationship are more likely to exhibit a low level of trust towards their caregiver, resulting in a lower likelihood of disclosing private and sensitive information to their caregiver (Nurse, Caregiver, Superdupernurse & Teflonnurse, 2010). This is further supported by the findings of Scarynurse, Lackadaisicalnurse and Ohsomotivated, 2011. blah-blah"

Whatever one might think of the four chosen words for OP's assignment, it is a good opportunity to practise writing skills, presentation in a correct format and above all improving one's ability to be a critical research consumer. Writing a paper like this involves searching for relevant research on the subject and reading many, many abstracts and articles trying to determine the quality of the research.

I don't understand why some people in this thread are so against the BSN. How can education ever be a bad thing? Personally I find that a good understanding of theory and evidence-based practice helps me with my bedside decisions and it improves my ability to articulate patients needs based on research to the physicians I work with.

[ixchel]

I'd like to vote for macawake's post for "best sources ever".

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

I respectfully disagree. I don't know it. My bachelors degree was obtained in Sweden and consists of 180 points or credits, 7,5 of those where "Nursing theory". Not a big part but I found it useful.

If I would have been given the assignment to write a paper about one of the words/concepts hope, trust, fear or caring it wouldn't have been a paper about what the word means to me. Quite

frankly, my teachers didn't give a .. about my personal opinion or experiences. What I was required to do was research the word/concept and how it affects patient care.

For example "trust" wouldn't be: "I think trust is such a good thing to have with your patient because I think it gives both me and my patient such a warm fuzzy feeling and warm and fuzzy is sooo nice when your feeling sick blah-blah yadda yadda..".

There is no I in any of the papers I've ever written.

It would likely be something along the lines of: "Patients who lack continuity in their nurse-patient relationship are more likely to exhibit a low level of trust towards their caregiver, resulting in a lower

likelihood of disclosing private and sensitive information to their caregiver (Nurse, Caregiver, Superdupernurse & Teflonnurse, 2010). This is further supported by the findings of Scarynurse, Lackadaisicalnurse and Ohsomotivated, 2011. blah-blah"

Whatever one might think of the four chosen words for OP's assignment, it is a good opportunity to

practise writing skills, presentation in a correct format and above all improving one's ability to be a critical research consumer. Writing a paper like this involves searching for relevant research on the subject and reading many, many abstracts and articles trying to determine the quality of the research.

I don't understand why some people in this thread are so against the BSN. How can education ever be a bad thing? Personally I find that a good understanding of theory and evidence-based practice helps

me with my bedside decisions and it improves my ability to articulate patients needs based on research to the physicians I work with.

Well, maybe it was the wording of the assignment more than anything else that set me against it. Buzz words like "concept analysis" just send my BS meter into high gear.

I still think this kind of a paper is more appropriate in a creative writing and/or composition class.

Don't get me wrong, the borderline illiteracy of the general public has me convinced ALL licensed nurses should have a through course in English composition before hitting the floor. But two semesters of Eng. composition ARE part of the perquisites for entry to every ADN and BSN program Ive ever heard of.

Once one hits the actual nursing program itself, shouldn't such assignments be more of the hard science variety? Presumably any one taking honest to god RN classes has already HAD a thorough foundation in the writing process, right?

To put an assignment like this into a sky high priced nursing class just seems like tuition building filler to me.

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

Double post

[ixchel]

Well, maybe it was the wording of the assignment more than anything else that set me against it. Buzz words like "concept analysis" just send my BS meter into high gear.

I still think this kind of a paper is more appropriate in a creative writing and/or composition class.

Don't get me wrong, the borderline illiteracy of the general public has me convinced ALL licensed nurses should have a through course in English composition before hitting the floor. But two semesters of Eng. composition ARE part of the perquisites for entry to every ADN and BSN program Ive ever heard of.

Once one hits the actual nursing program itself, shouldn't such assignments be more of the hard science variety? Presumably any one taking honest to god RN classes has already HAD a thorough foundation in the writing process, right?

To put an assignment like this into a sky high priced nursing class just seems like tuition building filler to me.

The english classes for our local ADN program are one composition class and one literature class. The composition class really doesn't teach grammar and spelling. You figure, we have autocorrect and word fixing everything for us. Then the literature class is making sure we understand stuff OTHER people write. Not that that is the point of what you're saying, but I wanted to mention that english classes aren't necessarily going to help people engage in what should be college-level writing.

If you have your RN, in my opinion you have completed the hard science classes. As noted in a previous post, the difference between ADN and BSN isn't the science, it's everything else. Concept analysis can be an important tool. Research and analysis is a huge component of BSN programs. If you can't properly analyze a concept, you aren't prepared at the baccalaureate level. Some people may be perfectly able to do that at the associates level, and if they are, power to them. They'd do well on an assignment like this without as much effort, probably.

[nursel56]

It' very possible for someone to graduate from a BSN program and not be able to write, use words properly or spell. I know that because I've seen it many times. If "auto-correct" is that program people are always apologizing for when they send stuff on an iphone maybe it would be better to just turn it off.

Even one composition class and one literature class should be enough to at least give people a clue when a word or phrase might be wrong so they can look it up. I've never been a stickler for perfection but I can't help reacting negatively when someone who trumpets their education has horrible written language skills.

Maybe it's a generational thing.

[nursel56]

I do not think its non sense those 4 words are meant to make you think and strengthen you mentally and spiritually as a nurse. Nursing is about more then clinical knowledge. I expect to write papers all the way to my my masters and I have not started my BSN yet. All I can say is keep your Associates Degree, and it will ease the competition for people like me who will get a BSN then my masters. You will be limited in your nursing career, viewed in a not so good like, you will be viewed as complacent, not interested in bettering yourself. While others will have higher degrees then you and move on to management. With your thought process of things that "you" view as ridiculous holding you back and you digging your feet in the sand you will just be stuck as a floor nurse with very little opportunity for movement. I am fresh out of nursing school with an Associates at my hospital I would say over half if not 75 percent of the nurses are pursuing higher degrees because our hospital encourages it. We are a Magnet hospital.

First, I agree that all education has value, and that what you get from a course aside from a grade (which can usually be had by learning what the teacher wants and spitting it back without understanding it) largely depends on what you put into it and keeping an open mind.

Earning a degree tells the world that you can set a goal and achieve it, and in the case of a BSN that you are reaching beyond the minumum formal education required (ADN or diploma). One may rightly assume you have the personal characteristics of self-discipline and persistence to varying degrees (not all of us start with the same resources).

I do have to say though, that it is wrong to assume that your ADN colleague who chooses not to go that route should or will be "viewed in a not so good like, complacent, not interested in bettering yourself. While others will have higher degrees then you and move on to management. With your thought process of things that "you" view as ridiculous holding you back and you digging your feet in the sand you will just be stuck as a floor nurse . . . "

If education broadens you then you can well imagine the possible things someone might choose to do while away from the workplace that are just as significant as taking classes and certainly fall under the category of bettering yourself (or bettering others). They may be doing things that make taking classes look complacent by comparison.

When you disparage floor nursing by saying someone is "stuck" there, it's going to negatively affect your ability to be their manager, and someone who does not want to be a manager is in no way less a nurse than one who does.