Any ADN-BSN programs without ridiculous papers?

soxgirl2008 · Mar 28, 2013

PFMB- how many of the BSNs in the study left after either starting their ARNP or CRNA programs? I find it implausible there has never been an ADN washout.

I remember reading some posts of PMFB's awhile ago where he did state that many of the BSN grads left the program before their contract was up for CRNA school, and that was why the program preferred ADN grads, because they were more likely to stay and finish out their contracts. This would explain the disparity. I know many BSN grads that enter critical care programs just until they get accepted to CRNA school, and then quit as soon as they get into grad school.

PMFB-RN, RN · Mar 28, 2013

PFMB- how many of the BSNs in the study left after either starting their ARNP or CRNA programs?

*** I don't know for sure since we don't keep track of where they go or what they do when they walk out on the contract. However I know from speaking with them that most go to CRNA school.

I

find it implausible there has never been an ADN washout.

*** Not sure where you are getting that. Sucess and wash out rates are about the same for BSN and ADN grads.

PMFB-RN, RN · Mar 28, 2013

I find the disparity between the success rates of these two groups astounding (unless the sample is very small). Why does one group of people have such a dismal success rate while the other group succeeds 100% of the time? In my opinion these numbers raise the question of confounding factors. Are the two groups offered the same support and opportunities/chances to succeed?

*** There isn't any difference between success rates and wash out rates between ADN and BSN grads. The 25% for BSN and 100% for ADN are contract completion rates after the residency program, not successful competion of the residency rates. Actually I think 25% is a little optomistic for the BSN but I am not at work and don't have the numbers in front of me.

PMFB-RN, RN · Mar 28, 2013

PMFB-RN- if you grind your BSN axe any harder you're going to break the handle. We are painfully aware of your position on this issue so please stop beating this dead horse before the ASPCA becomes involved.

*** I very much doubt you have much of an idea what my position is.

macawake, MSN · Mar 28, 2013

Ya I feel you. I got dumber doing my BSN program at a local state U. The papers were stupid, the level of discourse was pathetic, the learning non-exsistant. You will get many apologists here for the BSN. Most of them have never studied any other field and have no idea how abserd the BSN is. Many will accuse you of being anti education if you recognize the weakness inherent on BSN programs. As far as I am concered the the BSN, as they are now, are a waste of time and resourses.
No way I would have done it except it was free and I got to write most of my papers on paid time.

(I added the underlining)

I thought this was your position? If I have misinterpreted, I apologize.

Seems like I misunderstood what the less than 25% and the 100% were in reference to. You mentioned washout/success and completion rates in the same sentence and I guess for me the water got a bit muddied

Now that you've clarified that I must admit that I don't understand the reason you mentioned the numbers in the first place. I interpret the lower completion rates for BSN graduates as meaning that they have other options available to them and for some reason or other they decided to choose another path instead of completing your residency program. Given that fact I guess it would make sense for you to primarily recruit ADN graduates. Not because one is better than the other but because they seem much more likely to stay in your program.

ixchel · Mar 28, 2013

*** I very much doubt you have much of an idea what my position is.

A thought for you: many, if not most, people only listen in conversations with the intentions of sharing their response. Try, instead, to listen with the intention of listening.

My point..... You've spent pages of this thread telling us what your position is on the most recent change in this topic of discussion. Multiple times you have mis-read what has been shared in response to your posts, and you have responded accordingly.

In this response here, you either thought the poster was insinuating they know what your job position is, or you did actually understand what they were saying and you've forgotten completely that you have shared multiple times that you feel your personal experiences with ADN students vs. BSN students qualifies you to feel ADN students are more reliable, spend their money on their education more wisely, and your opinion/experience/opinion of colleagues trumps any research you have encountered on the validity of these assumptions. There was one point where you said BSNs burned out quicker (75% didn't finish contracts) but then you said you didn't say that.

On that note, do YOU know what your position is?

lawrencencandy · Mar 28, 2013

@PmFB-RN Are you 100% positive sure that LVN 30 unit option and RN CA license will look the same? 30 unit option will not say "39 unit option"? Sorry I know it's not related to the thread

wooh, BSN, RN · Mar 28, 2013

*** Really? Is that true? You had to go to BSN classes to learn that?

Did I need the classes to know it? No. But it was covered there. For someone that spins his anecdotes as if they are data, perhaps you should have paid a bit more attention when that was covered.

*** I very much doubt you have much of an idea what my position is.

In which case, perhaps you should have spent more time writing papers in your BSN classes so that you would be able to share your thoughts more clearly through the written word. Because you've written a lot of words. If they haven't gotten your position across, some writing exercises might be in order.

PMFB-RN, RN · Mar 28, 2013

I thought this was your position? If I have misinterpreted, I apologize.

*** No it's not. My post you quoted was stating my opinion and position on the qualiety of BSN education as it currently is, not a statement on my position of the BSN. That was a complaint about quality (or in my view lack of qualiety).

Seems like I misunderstood what the less than 25% and the 100% were in reference to. You mentioned washout/success and completion rates in the same sentence and I guess for me the water got a bit muddied

*** Sorry about that.

Now that you've clarified that I must admit that I don't understand the reason you mentioned the numbers in the first place.

*** I Mentioned them to further illistrate the differences between them.

I interpret the lower completion rates for BSN graduates as meaning that they have other options available to them and for some reason or other they decided to choose another path instead of completing your residency program.

*** No that is incorrect. the completion rates of the RESIDENCY are the same. The diffeence is in the competion of CONTRACT rates.

Given that fact I guess it would make sense for you to primarily recruit ADN

*** I absolutly agree, howver the nurse managers who hire the residents don't agree and lots of BSN grads are hired. The only exception is th SICU.

PMFB-RN, RN · Mar 28, 2013

In this response here, you either thought the poster was insinuating they know what your job position is, or you did actually understand what they were saying and you've forgotten completely that you have shared multiple times that you feel your personal experiences with ADN students vs. BSN students qualifies you to feel ADN students are more reliable, spend their money on their education more wisely, and your opinion/experience/opinion of colleagues trumps any research you have encountered on the validity of these assumptions.

*** This seems to be another case of wishful reading. That is reading what one wishes to read, reguarless of what was actually written. The quote below illistrates this perfectly. In fact my experiences only entitel me to my wn opinion, as I have made clear. I do not think ADN students are more reliable and didn't say I did. I do not think my experience trumps "any research". I pointed out that such research has not been done by an unbiased party, or of it has been I have not seen it. I do not think AND students have spent their money more wisely. Juts poonted out why the ADN might be a viable option for some.

There was one point where you said BSNs burned out quicker (75% didn't finish contracts) but then you said you didn't say that

*** At no time did I mention ANY reason why contract completion rates might be different and certainly never indicated burnout was the cause. I am confident that is not the case.

On that note, do YOU know what your position is?

duskyjewel · Mar 29, 2013

Ya I feel you. I got dumber doing my BSN program at a local state U. The papers were stupid, the level of discourse was pathetic, the learning non-exsistant. You will get many apologists here for the BSN. Most of them have never studied any other field and have no idea how abserd the BSN is. Many will accuse you of being anti education if you recognize the weakness inherent on BSN programs. As far as I am concered the the BSN, as they are now, are a waste of time and resourses.
No way I would have done it except it was free and I got to write most of my papers on paid time.

When you learn to spell basic English words, I'll take your anti-bachelor's degree opinions a little more seriously.

allnurses Guide · Mar 29, 2013

Well, the OP of this thread only had a week to go in that class so I wonder if he decided to drop the class over the Caring, Hope, Trust, Fear assignment. Hoping he will give us an update!