CNO refuse to take CRNE. - page 2
I am a nurse in the philippines. I also have experience. Im also registered nurse in NEW York City. Before I move here in Canada, I send my credentials to CNO including endorsement of license from... Read More
Oct 21, '12 by ceridwyn GuideIf you are not a good communicator in the country you are working, you are not a competent nurse.
Not only do you need to communicate well with your patients - and they can have all types of accents speaking english (if we are discussing english speaking country) but you need to speak clearly and precise to all colleagues and medical staff - and this means on the phone as well, which is where many fall down, in non and emergency conditions as well as the natives, even if you are from the Phillipines.!!
Been there, done that, been in coroners court with overseas educated nurse that had no idea, in emergency situation, what anybody was talking about and took no responsiblity because they were proud of where they came from professional....not.
I can speak french, very well, but would not think myself a competent nurse, in any french speaking country. As i have never had a french test.
I can be as proud to be as I like....I tend to think Australian Nurses are best and proud of it......but if they cannot speak the overseas country's language, fluently and pass language tests for said country they want to work, then they are not competent.
They may just be great in all nursing skills only - and thats being task orientated not giving holistic care and dangerous with misscommunication.Last edit by ceridwyn on Oct 21, '12
Oct 22, '12 by Fiona59Aw shucks, we're not back to 2007/08 again are we? The entire "bestest nurses in the world" speech!
Oct 23, '12 by vaio.I beg to differ from your point of view about the competency in language,to practice nursing.To me,one has to be competent in the given language,in which they practice nursing.It is vital to communicate effectively and clearly with clients and other members of health team.Last edit by Silverdragon102 on Oct 23, '12 : Reason: TOS see next post
Oct 23, '12 by Silverdragon102, RN AdminOK enough guys. Personal attacks will not be tolerated and several posts were deleted due to personal attacks and members have been here long enough to know that. You are certainly OK to disagree with what people post just do it in a constructive manner and not attack each other.
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Oct 25, '12 by RL657The ability to communicate using the English language is truly essential if we want to deliver patient-focused care.I looked at communication skills as an ingredient in providing safe care to all patients.I have dealt with so much issues from patients and family members about nurses not being able to communicate the right message to them. The patient becomes frustrated because he did not get what the staff was trying to say and it will trigger an atmosphere of mistrust which we would like to avoid.Not to mention ,I have to deal with my physician who is the first to knock at my door if during a family meeting the nurse uttered or used an inappropriate word or term. I made it a point to sit down and coach my staff before any meeting. I inherited nurses from diffferent backgrounds from previous patient care manager.I work with them in improving their confidence and ability to deliver key messages during rounds,meetings and other interactions. Communication is indeed a big issue and though we are not expecting staff to have perfect command in English ,it is an expectation that as nurses we deliver the right information and accurate key messages to the patient,the family and the interprofessional team that we working with.
As we all know,we have geared away from thinking that nursing competency is all about our skills in doing nursing procedures. Nursing has evolved and so as professionals we are expected to participate in on-going team meetings,family meetings,rounds and etc..Nurses need to speak up,voice their concerns and be the patient adovocate.Indeed with all these things going on,a nurse must have certain level of English fluency to successfully integrate in the healthcare environment and work with patient,family and the team.
Nevertheless, IEN's do not despair that English is not our first language. It may take time and lots of effort but it is doable. Take time to listen to shows that are in English,converse in English as much as possble or ask help from your former professors who are willing to help you on this quest. It is not going to be easy but be positive about it. If there is the will to do it,then there will always be a way.
Oct 25, '12 by Clyde027The issue here is not about who is the best nurse, but that someone has just ridiculed and judged an IEN because that person cannot communicate in perfect English. While communication is important, it is not the end all and be all. It may be the most obvious skill you must have as a nurse, but you have to have the knowledge and physical skills to be competent. That's why all the licensing bodies don't tell IENs, "okay, as long as you can speak in English, you can be a licensed nurse." No, they have standards that you must meet, often more stringent than what local nurses go through. Let me ask you this, "Has anyone ever died because of frustration? Has anyone ever lost a limb because they were told an inappropriate word?" I can understand that nurses have greater roles now beyond hardcore skills, but to pick on those who cannot speak English perfectly is idiotic and asinine.
Oct 25, '12 by loriangel14 GuideI disagree. Being able to communicate is a safety issue.Giving instructions to someone or trying to provide information or education to a patient is ineffective if they can't understand you. I once was receiving report from a nurse from another facility over the phone and I literally could not understand a word she was saying.I felt terrible but I had to ask her to put someone else on the phone. What would happen if it was an emergency position and there was no one else to communicate with but a nurse you couldn't understand?
I agree we shouldn't be mean and launch personal attacks on people but I feel it is wrong to suggest that being able to speak and understood in English is not required.
Oct 26, '12 by Mewsin, LPNAs an aide I have to say, it is really important for a nurse to be able to speak English. We have IEN who are nurses here and we have walked out of report trying to piece together what we just heard. Report is important, we need to have that information to give the proper care to our clients. We have IEN who are aides and can not understand what is being said, this has put patients at risk in our facility. Yes, you may be a cardiac nurse, you may be great at that job, but if you walk in on a client who is sitting in mid air between her wheelchair and her bed and you just stand there.......or when your partner comes to get the client at least onto the bed so she doesn't fall and your partner has to ask for a lift 4 times before you understand what she is saying, all the education you have does not count.
It might hurt to hear what is being said here but it is true. We are all part of a team and we all need to be able to communicate in order for our patients to have the quality of care we would all want for our own loved ones.
We are also all proud of our education. I am proud of our Canadian education system, the length of time for the aide course, the amount of information that is covered(10 months not 10 weeks), the lpn course being our old 2 year RN course, our RNs being so educated that we all can have confidence in them.
So please don't take what is being said the wrong way. The more information you have to get licensed the better, right? If it means taking an ESL class that doesn't mean you're not a good nurse, it means you're willing to give every chance to our patients to ensure they have the care that you want to give them.
*disclaimer* this was written after a 12hr night shift so may not be as eloquent as I'd like it to be.
Dec 5, '12 by ultrarunnerGosh this argument is just plain silly. Any idea why CNO require IEN to pass an English Proficiency Exam? of course we all know the reason right? If we go back and forth about this argument, might as well debate why the need for CNO to have that requirement. As long as you have a passable english and you don't compromise the safety of the patients, I'm fine. We don't need to set a very high standard on this.
Dec 5, '12 by loriangel14 GuideI disagree. We do need to set a high standard on the ability to communicate.
Dec 5, '12 by NotReady4PrimeTime, RN Senior ModeratorI beg to differ. It's an absolute necessity that nurses who wish to work in Canada are able to communicate clearly, concisely and accurately in English. And not only must the standard be high, it must be universal. I work in an ICU in a teaching hospital. We have a large number of physicians from other countries who are doing fellowships here and the variability in their English language skills is huge. Because they're here as "students" their English proficiency isn't considered important. I've listened to reports from surgery fellows that I could barely piece together and I've been asked questions by them where I had no clue what they wanted to know. Other times I've tried to explain changes in a patient's condition that require intervention and had the fellow look at me with no comprehension at all. When a patient is dying in front of me, I have to trust that the physician making the medical decisions will communicate those to me in a language I understand. Anything less compromises the safety of the patient. Why should it be different for nurses? And who decides "passability"? There are strong reasons for every requirement the Colleges have in place for registration.Last edit by NotReady4PrimeTime on Jun 15, '14
Dec 9, '12 by Prairienurse1989I have no idea why you are bickering over English requirements. The OP never once said she was refused due to English inefficiency. I, in fact, found her English quite understandable, she asked for advice.
Dec 19, '12 by avhiecasisHaven't been on this site for awhile, I myself is a nurse from the Philippines and now a RN here in Ontario. Some of you guys are totally not helping at all. I thought this site is made to help out nurses who needs advice. I myself did seek advice when I am in the process of getting my license here. I must say, I AM NOT GOOD IN ENGLISH but my english is good enough for my patients to understand and for me to understand them. And I believe that is enough. I am commended of being the best nurse on all my jobs, In spite of a little language barrier. She is just asking for some advise. and yes as PRAIRIENURSE1989 says she didn't say that she was denied of pursuing her RN career here in ON because of english inefficiency. You don't solely need to be fluent in english but you have to have the knowledge and skills of a NURSE. You are not english teachers or professors to be so flawless on your grammar.
To iamdi, College must have a reason for the refusal. I myself is a RN in the Philippines and NY as well.. As others have said, I completed the BET as well and that helped me to get their permission for me to take the CRNE. I took the CRNE after that and passed it the first time. I am now practicing here in Ontario for 2 years now. Wish you all the best. PM me if I could help you on your journey.
Quote from Prairienurse1989I have no idea why you are bickering over English requirements. The OP never once said she was refused due to English inefficiency. I, in fact, found her English quite understandable, she asked for advice.