Unprofessional Nurse

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · Aug 28, 2008

However, when the parent passes away, I wouldn't expect to get anything. Any life insurance and assets will be first applied to creditors, then you get what is left over.

Also, if the parent(s) owned real estate at the time of death, probate court would ensure that any profits from the sale of the house (estate) would go toward paying any outstanding debts. Any heirs would be left with nothing.

MAISY, RN-ER, BSN, RN · Aug 28, 2008

Here's some sad news for those of you who think you will not have to care for irresponsible parents. It's called filial responsibility and it is law in 30 of our states. Though rarely enforced, you will be seeing more and more healthcare facilities looking for money as medicare dollars dry up.

In the past the elderly placed holdings under their children's names and the government footed the bill. This preserved the "inherited" family assets.

Then, it was required that all assets had to be transferred at least 3 years prior to taking benefits as "charity". Now, with Medicare requiring so much of healthcare facilities for payment. I can guarentee this will change. There have already been threads regarding this problem, and some states are already requiring children to pay for their parents. This is regardless of the children's assets, responsibilties or even the fact that they may not be able to plan for their own futures.

Additionally, what about parents who were deadbeats? Can you imagine having to pay for someone who couldn't have given a crap when you were the most vulnerable?

Sorry to go off the thread, but honestly. We can only live our own lives and our own standards. We might like others to do the same, but just because they are family...that doesn't mean they have to. Remember we can pick our friends, but can't pick our families.

Maidy

woody62, RN · Aug 28, 2008

I am sixty-three years old. I have no savings, no retirement, no property, about $30,000 in medical debts that I have been slowly paying off, no credit cards. I live on a fixed income, which after paying all my expenses for the month, generally leaves me with $150 to $200 to spend any way I wish. I treat myself to a dinner out twice a month, go to a movie every two to three months, buy books I enjoy reading. I have a forty-one year old married daughter, whom I do not expect to pay for my future care or any of my debts once I am dead. Since I no longer own any real property, the hospitals I still owe will be out of luck.

Children of irresponsible adult parents, who are adults, can no longer be held responsible for their parent's debt, unless they sign an agreement to accept the responsibility. Those that do own property are subject to their state's laws regarding seizure of such property to pay state debts. Here in Florida, a spouse may obtain medicaid and remain in the home until their death. The property is then sold and money applied to what the state has paid out. Rarely is there anything left over.

For those who have irresponsible parents, that parent is responsible for their own bills. If you do not want to be held responsible, do not sign any agreements that hold you responsible.

A bit of an aside. I had a retirement fund, owned a condo, had bills, which I was paying, had a savings account. A bad accident wiped out my savings, the government took half of my retirement when I cashed it in, in an attempt to save my condo, the bank took my condo. I have not been able to return to work and I have not been able to save anything. I am dependent on Social Security. I don't think I have been irresponsible. Perhaps I could have planned a little better but hindsight is always better then foresight. :banghead:

Woody:twocents:

linzz · Aug 28, 2008

I have a relative like this and future scares me to death. My husband and I have set limits but it is hard if not impossible to really change the situation. I have even tried to convince my spouse to move somewhere really far away. How desperate is that! :banghead:

Katy-NursingStudent · Aug 28, 2008

I am sixty-three years old. I have no savings, no retirement, no property, about $30,000 in medical debts that I have been slowly paying off, no credit cards. I live on a fixed income, which after paying all my expenses for the month, generally leaves me with $150 to $200 to spend any way I wish. I treat myself to a dinner out twice a month, go to a movie every two to three months, buy books I enjoy reading. I have a forty-one year old married daughter, whom I do not expect to pay for my future care or any of my debts once I am dead. Since I no longer own any real property, the hospitals I still owe will be out of luck.
Children of irresponsible adult parents, who are adults, can no longer be held responsible for their parent's debt, unless they sign an agreement to accept the responsibility. Those that do own property are subject to their state's laws regarding seizure of such property to pay state debts. Here in Florida, a spouse may obtain medicaid and remain in the home until their death. The property is then sold and money applied to what the state has paid out. Rarely is there anything left over.
For those who have irresponsible parents, that parent is responsible for their own bills. If you do not want to be held responsible, do not sign any agreements that hold you responsible.
A bit of an aside. I had a retirement fund, owned a condo, had bills, which I was paying, had a savings account. A bad accident wiped out my savings, the government took half of my retirement when I cashed it in, in an attempt to save my condo, the bank took my condo. I have not been able to return to work and I have not been able to save anything. I am dependent on Social Security. I don't think I have been irresponsible. Perhaps I could have planned a little better but hindsight is always better then foresight.
Woody:twocents:

I am very sorry to hear of your bad luck. I hate that you are in debt because of something you where unable to control.

Its sad that I am more empathetic to a complete stranger, than my own mother. After 30 years in the nursing industry she has nothing to show for it and never has... Well I say nothing but the truth is she has a house that she is renting to own. She has had plenty of money where she could have flat out paid for a house, or gotten a traditional loan. And in her house is rooms full of stuff (literally CEILING HIGH). Stuff from garage sales, flea markets, and dollar stores. I dont understand why anyone who makes as much money as her would still CHOOSE to live like a poor person. She HAD a brand new car that she bought about a year ago and then when she, on a whim, decided she was going to quit her job she had no money to pay her bills. She took out a stupid car title loan for $3,000!!! Instead of making the first monthly payment she let them HAVE the car!!!! I mean this woman has NO sense of the value of a dollar. But whats even better is shes broke when she took out the loan, right.... In her mind she decides with part of this money, she needs to go buy a $500 lawn mower!! On top of that, she PAYS someone to mow it for her!! (my thought is, cant they supply a lawn mower if your going to pay them anyway?) Man, what I could do with the money she wastes... Oh and mind you, my mother has never helped me with college (my father was the one that stayed at home with us, so I dont blame him) and I can't get financial aid because she makes too much and until next year I am still considered a dependent on her!! Is it just me, or does she sound like shes a little off her rocker to anyone else?? :confused:

morte, LPN, LVN · Aug 28, 2008

I am sixty-three years old. I have no savings, no retirement, no property, about $30,000 in medical debts that I have been slowly paying off, no credit cards. I live on a fixed income, which after paying all my expenses for the month, generally leaves me with $150 to $200 to spend any way I wish. I treat myself to a dinner out twice a month, go to a movie every two to three months, buy books I enjoy reading. I have a forty-one year old married daughter, whom I do not expect to pay for my future care or any of my debts once I am dead. Since I no longer own any real property, the hospitals I still owe will be out of luck.
Children of irresponsible adult parents, who are adults, can no longer be held responsible for their parent's debt, unless they sign an agreement to accept the responsibility. Those that do own property are subject to their state's laws regarding seizure of such property to pay state debts. Here in Florida, a spouse may obtain medicaid and remain in the home until their death. The property is then sold and money applied to what the state has paid out. Rarely is there anything left over.
For those who have irresponsible parents, that parent is responsible for their own bills. If you do not want to be held responsible, do not sign any agreements that hold you responsible.
A bit of an aside. I had a retirement fund, owned a condo, had bills, which I was paying, had a savings account. A bad accident wiped out my savings, the government took half of my retirement when I cashed it in, in an attempt to save my condo, the bank took my condo. I have not been able to return to work and I have not been able to save anything. I am dependent on Social Security. I don't think I have been irresponsible. Perhaps I could have planned a little better but hindsight is always better then foresight.
Woody:twocents:

i dont know about florida, but as previously stated..there are states where the child would be responsible.....signed papers or not....

linzz · Aug 28, 2008

The situation that the poster Woody62 is in could happen to anyone and I in no way judge anyone who gets sick or injured or otherwise sidelined. I would have no problem with helping my family member in that case.

The sad reality is that my family member just spent and spent until they had nothing.

MAISY, RN-ER, BSN, RN · Aug 28, 2008

i dont know about florida, but as previously stated..there are states where the child would be responsible.....signed papers or not....

Florida is not a filial responsibility state, but 30 states are.

Most Americans do not save what is necessary to survive an emergency, and most could not even if they wanted to care for a sick parent.

After reading about the OP's mom, her actions to do not seem to be that of a rational person. It may very well be that she has a psychological disorder. I cannot imagine anyone without one behaving in such a manner.

I am sorry for everyone who has these crosses to bear....

Maisy

leslie :-D · Aug 29, 2008

After reading about the OP's mom, her actions to do not seem to be that of a rational person. It may very well be that she has a psychological disorder. I cannot imagine anyone without one behaving in such a manner.
Maisy

katy, i have to agree with maisy.

it does sound like your mom has some mental/psychological disparities, sad to say.

i had a mom with some profound issues as well.

and so, i do understand your frustration.

w/o the proper interventions, it's unlikely she'll change at this point.

all you can do is love her from a distance and protect yourself.

it's highly unlikely your mom is at peace with herself.

God love her...

(((hugs, honey)))

leslie

Nurse Salt · Aug 29, 2008

I did a BRIEF google search of "filial responsibility" and here are the stated listed that have such a law on the books States:

Alaska, Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, and West Virginia.

HOWEVER, it does go on to say that while each state has different wording of the law for the most part they are enforced when a parent can no longer care for themselves (financially or whatever) the responsibility falls on the adult children. Now, I did not delve into each state's law and determine the fine print (because I am not in law school and do NOT enjoy interpreting legal language) but from what I read holding adult children liable for the parents financial debt seems ridiculous... I mean, what if I never knew my father and he died with millions in debt, that is supposed to fall on me?

Anyway, here's the link to the website I was on its lists the citation numbers of leach state's law if you want to look up the info pertaining to your state.

http://everydaysimplicity.blogspot.com/2006/02/filial-responsibility-laws-list-of.html

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · Aug 29, 2008

I have to say, I resent people hiding assets from Medicare so that the kids can inherit and we get stuck with their debts.

That said, I have a resident whose wife is now verging on destitution. They saved all of their lives and then he got Parkinsons and Alzheimers. Luckily, NYS has enough compassion that they don't take your house, but who on earth could have foreseen, being born in 1930, that a catastrophic illness could result in your being wiped out when most people didn't survive such diseases?

As to your mom, she's clearly mentally ill. Hoarding and shopping.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Sep 2, 2008

Filial state, non-filial state, I don't care: I would spend EVERY DIME I had, spending it ALL in court costs, if I ever had a creditor that came after me for something that one of my parents charged or owed a debt on. Gov't demands that I pay for deadbeat dad's bills, or they're going to garnish my wages? See ya in court, pal. I'll be fighting the government's extortion attempt, as I see it.

It seems absolutely absurd to me that I would or could be held responsible for debts incurred by a parent. Make me responsible for healthcare costs when they're destitute? Perhaps (and only perhaps). Since they have not been legally obligated to take on MY healthcare costs as an adult, I have a big problem with the gov't automatically expecting *I* will assume those costs. So what if they're older than me? What if my healthcare bills have been higher? Can I go bang on their door and DEMAND payment?

Keep in mind, I'm talking extremes here. I'm not talking about the adult children who hide all of Mom and Dad's assets so that they aren't "taken" by the gov't, while expecting the gov't to pay their bills.

I'm talking about the adult children who have little to nothing to do with a parent for at least several years prior to the onset of the "destitution". I don't see room in the Constitution for forcing one adult to take on the financial liabilities of another adult, regardless of biological relationship. Obvious exception being married couples who have by default accepted each other's liabilities.

So what if there's a law resembling what's being discussed. Laws have exceptions, and they can be changed. And, also, they can be conveniently misinterpreted by greedy government officials.