Still think we have the best Health care in the world? - page 7

i heard this woman's story on npr the other night. read the diaries and make your own decision about whether our system needs reform. this patient had an 8 day wait to get in to see a us... Read More

  1. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from Gromit
    Well, for one of your campaign promises, do you include 'ice-cream in every pot'?
    That's just it, I wouldn't run no stinking campaign! I'd take all your rights away by gov't fiat - me. Then again, that wouldn't be much different than the idea of gov't restricted healthcare, now would it?

    (I know, relatively cheap shot.)

    In any case, I'd be a benevolent dictator. You DO trust me, right? Bear in mind, the only real difference between a dictatorship and a free society is who has ownership of your rights.

    Tell me, generically speaking (by which I mean, not specifically YOU, gromit), should your "natural rights" be vested in YOU, or in the government? Which is more likely to offer the best protection of those rights?

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Apr 7, '07
  2. by   Gromit
    thought you would have to be elected first, THEN you could dictate. To be elected, you would have to promise to give us all a free ride (yeah, thats a cheap shot too).
    But in any case, I've LIVED under a dictatorship before (Francisco Franco, Spain, several years, early 1970s) and have no desire for that kind of life.
    Hmm. they had nationalized healthcare too, now that I think about it. It DID work, but I don't think most would want to experience it.
  3. by   Spidey's mom
    Tim - what flavor? My kids love homemade root beer ice cream.

    If you did become dictator, would you only give us one flavor? Your favorite? Or would you let us choose?

    steph
  4. by   lorita
    I have had to make plenty of referal appointments and I can tell you that many take longer then 8 days. Hernia surg like tmothy had is usually very fast, most surgeries that require a general surg go fairly quickly but any kind of specialty and we're talking more time and then I have often seen surgeries get bumped for various reasons including surgeon has more emergent pt, insuance co. didn't give authorizaion in time and others. I have see people go round and round trying to get something done and it takes months and even more than a year for their insurance to approve. Wait times can be just as bad here.
  5. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from stevielynn
    Tim - what flavor? My kids love homemade root beer ice cream.

    If you did become dictator, would you only give us one flavor? Your favorite? Or would you let us choose?

    steph
    It would be Vanilla all the way, but, you'd have to be on a 6 week waiting list to get a bowl . . .

    Unlimited demand (by ME) would equal rationed supplies (for YOU).

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  6. by   horsenurse25
    I don't understand why the word 'socialism' is such a bug-a-boo to Americans. Honestly, we already have it here...
    do your children go to public school?..That is socialism
    Do you enjoy the paved roads? That is socialism
    Any predominantly government driven enterprise is socialism...and we have lots of it here.
    Socialism is not the same as communism, and I assume that is what everyone is really freaked out about.

    I live in both Canada and the US. Drastically different countries. The medical system in Canada is more humane and user friendly. There are horror stories everywhere, but I find the Canadian system is superior in many ways. I know of many medical personnel who will not work in the US for ethical reasons. I know of many medical personnel who work in the US solely for monetary reasons.

    It is such a cliche to say there are no easy answers, but it is true. One thing is for certain, there is no such perfect system that it cannot undergo significant, planned changes towards improvement.
  7. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from horsenurse25
    Any predominantly government driven enterprise is socialism...and we have lots of it here.
    Agreed. But in the United States, OUR social contract, as expressed in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, is decidedly in favor of the idea of LIMITED gov't.

    LIMITED in order to reduce the number and scope of gov't driven enterprises. And the reason why is simple. With very few enumerated exceptions, gov't driven enterprises serve as a vehicle of enslavement for the people.

    Having recently been treated as the serf-slaves of an English King, our founding fathers did not relish the idea of creating the same here.

    And, we have bloomed to become the most prosperous and powerful nation in the history of the World as a result. And, that's not hubris. THAT's the power of limiting gov't from the ability to take your rights away from you.

    You are welcome to interchange the concept of 'gov't driven enterprise' with socialism. I agree with that definition. I also agree with our founding fathers, that the expansion of either (both) is a direct threat to the freedom to excel. By ensuring that the natural rights to those freedoms were vested where they belong, in the people, our founding fathers fostered excellence. And, excel as a nation, we have.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  8. by   UKRNinUSA
    I would rather wait 6 weeks for a bowl of ice cream than have no ice cream at all. But a word form the wise - too much ice cream will make you (a) fat(cat).
  9. by   horsenurse25
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    Agreed. But in the United States, OUR social contract, as expressed in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, is decidedly in favor of the idea of LIMITED gov't.

    LIMITED in order to reduce the number and scope of gov't driven enterprises. And the reason why is simple. With very few enumerated exceptions, gov't driven enterprises serve as a vehicle of enslavement for the people.

    Having recently been treated as the serf-slaves of an English King, our founding fathers did not relish the idea of creating the same here.

    And, we have bloomed to become the most prosperous and powerful nation in the history of the World as a result. And, that's not hubris. THAT's the power of limiting gov't from the ability to take your rights away from you.
    And, excel as a nation, we have.

    .
    Well, many would disagree with you on that. And the concept of LIMITED is subjective I suppose.

    The United States is no longer the most prosperous and powerful nation in the world. And the ranking on almost every level (education, health, life expectancy, standard of living) is slipping every year.

    I love this country. I think it has had a glorious history to be proud of. It is a wonderful place to live. And I am proud to be an American (insert theme music here).

    However.

    I can see the flaws without throwing the whole thing away. And the greatness of the US was built in part upon the backs of the poor, and the exploitation of natural resources which are now becoming scarce. The US is in a decline. The distribution of wealth is becoming skewed. I do not know how to fix it. And I am not an economist so I cannot isolate the problem, but it is happening.

    The US is not so perfect that it cannot stand some fundamental changes.
  10. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from UKRNinUSA
    I would rather wait 6 weeks for a bowl of ice cream than have no ice cream at all. But a word form the wise - too much ice cream will make you (a) fat(cat).
    The 85% of the population that can go get a bowl of ice cream for mere percentages of an hour's wage would likely disagree with this sentiment.

    See, you've effectively traded free and plentiful opportunity for the masses in exchange for a fair share in a dismal outcome.

    But, just try telling the masses that a gov't restricted ice cream program that grants a bowl to everyone every 6 weeks is a better deal than the ability to pay 2 bucks for a bowl, immediately. What you will find is that suddenly, the idea of a gov't restricted ice cream program is not nearly so popular, after all.

    BTW, it seems to me that your latin signature lies in stark contradiction to your train of thought.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Apr 7, '07
  11. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from horsenurse25
    The US is not so perfect that it cannot stand some fundamental changes.
    The 'fundamental changes' down this path already enacted is WHY the United States isn't more perfect. "In order to form a more perfect union . . . we intend the limit the heck out of gov't."

    IF you disagree with the underlying philosophy of our social contract, the solution is clearly spelled out: garner enough support to call a Constitutional Convention. In the meantime, our social contract is what it is. And the philosophy that undergirds it has clearly proven to be a superior idea.

    And, I dispute the notion that the United States is no longer the most prosperous and powerful nation in the world. If not us, tell me, which nation ranks number 1?

    But let me ask you, in YOUR mind's eye, when did we move from embracing our history to living off the legacy of our history? Could it correspond with FDR's 'New Deal'? hmmmmm...

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Apr 7, '07
  12. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    It would be Vanilla all the way, but, you'd have to be on a 6 week waiting list to get a bowl . . .

    Unlimited demand (by ME) would equal rationed supplies (for YOU).

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Oh dear . . . .then I may not vote for your "Socialized Ice Cream Program" because I personally love fresh peach homemade ice cream . . . . . .(although the base of that is vanilla so maybe we could compromise).

    steph
  13. by   horsenurse25
    Well, a quick google search on every level points it out.

    Does it surprise you know that the World Health Organizaion puts the US at 37th for quality of health?? We spend 37% of our gdp and rank 37th. Canada is 30th. the UK is 18th and they spend only 6% od their gdp. Here are some rankings. The US is nowhere to be found.
    1 France
    2 Italy
    3 San Marino
    4 Andorra
    5 Malta
    6 Singapore
    7 Spain
    8 Oman
    9 Austria
    10 Japan
    11 Norway
    12 Portugal
    13 Monaco
    14 Greece
    15 Iceland
    16 Luxembourg
    17 Netherlands
    18 United Kingdom


    And how about education?
    The US is 18th.
    Here are these rankings put out by UNICEF

    . South Korea 1.4
    2. Japan 2.2
    3. Finland 4.4
    4. Canada 5.0
    5. Australia 6.2
    6. Austria 8.2
    7. Britain 9.4
    8. Ireland 10.2
    9. Sweden 10.8
    10. Czech Republic 12.2
    11. New Zealand 12.2
    12. France 12.6
    13. Switzerland 13.0
    14. Belgium 14.0
    15. Iceland 14.0
    16. Hungary 14.2
    17. Norway 14.2
    18. United States 16.2

    The UN Human Development index 2006 puts the US at 8th.

    In a global report of 'best cities to live in' the highest level a US city got was27th.

    And we could go on and on.

    Again, I love this country, but there is a big world out there...



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