Healthcare is NOT a basic human right. - page 38

by Asystole RN

49,228 Views | 622 Comments

If one were to read the Constitution one would realize that the Constitution does not grant anyone freedoms, liberties, or rights. The Constitution only protects freedoms, liberties, and rights from transgressions on part of the... Read More


  1. 6
    Quote from SA2009
    Well, first of all, in many countries universal healthcare is only part of what Americans call tax. Actually, it is a deduction which includes healthcare, unemployment, retirement, etc. So, please don't put it all in one pot.

    Secondly, as for acute care in America, I had a zygomatic arch and orbital blow-out fx with bones shifting in my face, went to the county hospital, and was not getting care until I put down $2000 because I did not have insurance but was above the poverity line in income (Dallas TX).

    Also, I have ulcerative colitis, with my insurance premium paid by myself would run around $300-600 a month, meds (running up to $200) not included. So, in 2008, I went back to my home country, got a colonoscopy ($25 there, $3000 in US) and my meds filled ($15 for 3 months - all meds).

    Now, yes, there are downfalls with universal healthcare, mainly that physicians and healthcare personnel earn less. Physicians are also held more accountable as to what prescriptions they write and its necessity. Having said that, the emphasis is on preventative care and longterm remissions, which includes a huge emphasis of patient/public education.

    I'm quite sure that most people do understand that insurance companies really determine much of the care, by either providing or pulling funds. Patients get discharged too early without aftercare because the insurance says they won't pay more and the hospitals/physicians/healthcare personnel don't work for free. It sickens me, though, to see how hospital administrators make huge, huge amounts of money and we save on patient care.

    Both systems are not perfect and, of course, you feel most comfortable in the one you are used to (creatures of habit), but I take universal healthcare anyday because I know that in case I lose my insurance for any reason, i.e. I develop cancer, I will have security to know I will be cared for, as I wish for my fellow citizens.

    I reside in Dallas as well and I have had to go out of country to obtain health care. Texas has the most uninsured individuals in the nation; many people that have jobs cannot afford health insurance or health insurance is simply not provided through their employer. There are annual group trips to Mexico where people visit a physician, get dental work, pick up their prescription medications, and even have surgery. I have truly enjoyed reading the responses in this thread, but I am shocked by the "we all have access to health care" statements. I too would take universal health care over the current system.

    Below, I have provided two links from the Texas Comptroller and a link from the Texas Medical Association pertaining to the uninsured in Texas as well as under-insured.

    Bordering the Future: Health
    May 2007 Fiscal Notes

    The Uninsured in Texas
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  2. 4
    Quote from glowbug
    I reside in Dallas as well and I have had to go out of country to obtain health care. Texas has the most uninsured individuals in the nation; many people that have jobs cannot afford health insurance or health insurance is simply not provided through their employer. There are annual group trips to Mexico where people visit a physician, get dental work, pick up their prescription medications, and even have surgery. I have truly enjoyed reading the responses in this thread, but I am shocked by the "we all have access to health care" statements. I too would take universal health care over the current system.

    Below, I have provided two links from the Texas Comptroller and a link from the Texas Medical Association pertaining to the uninsured in Texas as well as under-insured.

    Bordering the Future: Health
    May 2007 Fiscal Notes

    The Uninsured in Texas
    Earlier this year a very good friend from another Internet group one belongs to died of colon cancer.

    A life long resident of Texas the man owned his own business but did not have insurance (he felt taking care of his employees was the better thing to do), and quite literally was allowed to die. MD Andersen and the rest of the big named along with smaller healthcare systems in the state turned their backs on him.
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  3. 5
    Don't know if this has been addressed and am not going to wade though all the posts to find out, *LOL* but there are many parts to the "right to healthcare" in the United States. Most of it has to do with access.

    In France physicans attend medical school on the state's dime and are in most cases employees of same. That or there are rules and or laws in place that pretty much mandate whom they will treat and at what rate. OTOH the United States has no such system and that is where the problems start.

    There are already plenty of persons who have either "poor" insurance and or are on federal programs (Medicare, Medicaid) who cannot find a physican for love nor money. We're talking about large urban areas including New York City, as well as small towns. The only real leverage the federal government has over healthcare is via funding (again Medicare/Medicaid), so if doctors and or healthcare systems opt out that is the end of that. States OTHO do have more and bigger sticks they can use but that does not always happen.

    Indeed just read a news report a few weeks ago that one of the biggest "gains" from Obamacare, the ability to stop insurance companies from raising rates isn't what it's cracked up to be. Turns out neither the federal government nor most states have the power to stop most increases in rates. One government official in California put it bluntly "...they can tell us to go to he**, and there is nothing we can do".

    Long as the means of healthcare delivery remains in private (both profit and non-profit) hands access of care in the United States is going to be uneven at best.
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  4. 3
    It might be interesting to see what happens in Florida, the governor has boycotted ObamaCare and declined to participate in the Program. He has also been declining other Obama sponsored initiatives and programs since he's been elected. Personally, I think the man is an idiot. I know the man personally from his days as CEO and President of a multi million dollar Health Care Company he ran into bankruptcy and he was under indictment when he was running for governor, but he took the fifth amendment 99 times and skated by, by lying and throwing everyone else under the bus.
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  5. 2
    Quote from FMF Corpsman
    It might be interesting to see what happens in Florida, the governor has boycotted ObamaCare and declined to participate in the Program. He has also been declining other Obama sponsored initiatives and programs since he's been elected. Personally, I think the man is an idiot. I know the man personally from his days as CEO and President of a multi million dollar Health Care Company he ran into bankruptcy and he was under indictment when he was running for governor, but he took the fifth amendment 99 times and skated by, by lying and throwing everyone else under the bus.
    Govenors of all states and both parties will probably soon find out things are out of their control.

    The cuts to federal reimbursement rates are across the board and regardless of state/location of facility. Hospitals in states that are declining to participate in "Obamacare" will find themselves with less revenue but with the same if not increased costs from the under or uninsured. Without the mandated insurance, expanded Medicare/Medicaid there are few if any ways for facilities to get themselves financially "right".

    Mark my words, regardless of who wins the election in November, states that are talking big now are going to be sat down by the major healthcare systems in their state and told either stop the maddness or find ways to increase their funding.
    lindarn and wooh like this.
  6. 6
    The OP states that their belief is that healthcare is not a human right.....

    A nurse in her early 50's has been injured repeatedly during her career. One day she cannot more.....it is found that she multiple disc injuries which will not allow her to work in her field at the bedside any longer. This nurse has more than 20 years experience in Emergency medicine, but has a Diploma; therefore she is not "qualified" for any other nursing position.

    She uses up her time, but can't come back to work.

    She can't afford COBRA.

    She isn't old enough for Medicare.

    She's using a walker.

    Is it a human right for her? The person that helped so many others......No one ever thinks of those stuck in the middle. There but for the Grace of GOD.....to those who think healthcare is not a right!


    So many areas are cited when discussing healthcare for all; however I see only one. If GOD (or whatever name you use) provided man with the knowledge to heal. IT is our obligation share this knowledge with the masses, it is also our obligation to share the knowledge of prevention, maintenance, and end of life decision making with the masses.

    We cannot and should not keep everyone alive. There are many things I do not agree with in the healthcare technology available (especially at end of life and long term vented patients) ; however providing quality services as a country is the bare minimum that the America I believe in should be doing.

    Maisy
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  7. 0
    [COLOR=#000000][/COLOR]Concerning Canada, “Thecountry has little reason to worry about illegal immigration. The UnitedStates shares a long southern border with a country suffering from highlevels of crime, unemployment and income inequality. But there aren't millionsof Americans yearning to get into Canada. To put it another way, the United States’buffer zone from the eager masses is a shallow river. Canada's is the UnitedStates. That reduces unauthorized migration to Canada and eases public anxietyabout it. Canada also has a smaller population and lower birth rate than theUnited States—it needs immigrants for population growth.”
    [COLOR=#000000][/COLOR]http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/05/immigration
    [COLOR=#000000][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#000000][/COLOR]50 % ofCanadian immigrants arrive with a Bachelor’s degree. Providing health care for another countriescitizen is very controversial especially, when people in our own backyard aresuffering. Although Canada’s situationis admirable, it is also unique to Canada and not most other countries.
    [COLOR=#000000][/COLOR]
  8. 4
    Thank you, Dogoodthengo, for taking the time to improve my understanding of the French health care system. I was under the misimpression that it was considered socialized medicine. While I do not think socialized medicine is a pejorative, I wish we could adopt their system.

    I saw a woman today begging me for help. She has insurance. She also has a very large, widely differentiated tumor on her cervical lymph node, (nonlymphoma) adjacent to, and being fed by, her carotid artery. It grew from 4.5 to 11cm in less than 8 weeks. It will kill her very shortly. They only surgeon around who is skilled enough to to the surgery does not take Blue Cross/Blue Shield. The surgeons who do take BCBS have refused to do the surgery because of it's complexity. She and her husband cannot afford to pay out of network. Therefore, she will just die. All I can do for her is prescribe for pain and nausea. Too bad, so sad for her. AND SHE IS INSURED! It is an outrage.

    She is 47. Will never see 48. At this rate she won't see Christmas. And some of you think this is moral and just. Sleep well. heh.
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  9. 1
    Quote from BlueDevil,DNP
    Thank you, Dogoodthengo, for taking the time to improve my understanding of the French health care system. I was under the misimpression that it was considered socialized medicine. While I do not think socialized medicine is a pejorative, I wish we could adopt their system.

    I saw a woman today begging me for help. She has insurance. She also has a very large, widely differentiated tumor on her cervical lymph node, (nonlymphoma) adjacent to, and being fed by, her carotid artery. It grew from 4.5 to 11cm in less than 8 weeks. It will kill her very shortly. They only surgeon around who is skilled enough to to the surgery does not take Blue Cross/Blue Shield. The surgeons who do take BCBS have refused to do the surgery because of it's complexity. She and her husband cannot afford to pay out of network. Therefore, she will just die. All I can do for her is prescribe for pain and nausea. Too bad, so sad for her. AND SHE IS INSURED! It is an outrage.

    She is 47. Will never see 48. At this rate she won't see Christmas. And some of you think this is moral and just. Sleep well. heh.
    Well BlueDevil, it is Mercifully a very rapidly growing tumor. Sometimes that is the very best we can hope for. That, and a good pain control practitioner.
    lindarn likes this.
  10. 2
    Bangs head against desk.
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