NP w/no desire for RN? - page 9

Well, not so much NO desire...but are there any NP's out there that wanted to become (and had their sights set on being an NP from day 1) an NP with no real 'drive' to be an RN first? My cousin is... Read More

  1. by   jhoonk
    Buttons,

    I didn't mean to be rude and I don't think that obesity
    has anything to do with this thread. I wanted to tell the
    initiator of this thread my experience as an ER tech who is
    planning to attend direct entry MSN program (2 yr) and another
    year for NP course and clinicals. I think the human dynamics in any
    health care setting is what drives the institution and in that
    sense I wanted to say that my experience with some RNs would
    be valuable in the future if I work as an NP. (because
    NP is closely working for/with physicians and RNs.)

    This path is my second career (1st one was scientist.)
    I started ER tech job couple of months ago so I am still
    learning. I had to pick up the heart rate before I did EKG but
    the pt behaved so normal and I kind of missed the changing
    signs. This would be a good lesson for a future NP-to-be.

    I am a foreigner, so, I get treated with prejudice
    by techs who are 20 years younger than I am. I don't get
    along with the young folks (the 'in-group') and there is
    nothing I can do about it. This was the reason that I
    had hard time showing the EKG. It' not my ER, it's MY
    problem. I take this whole thing as a
    character-building experience, not really to prepare for
    NP program. I believe there would be a place for me
    when I finish my study and get licensed as an NP.
    Going beyond my realm of work and life to start something
    new fresh in my middle age was and is a huge challenge.

    In conclusion, doing RNs before NP program is good and
    recommended. I would do it like 10 years if I were a lot younger.
    If your NP program doesn't require RN experience, go for it.
    They should know what they are doing and even after
    you graduate and become a new NP and you are
    still not confident, then you should get some kind of internship.

    For all RNs who worked this Thanksgiving, cheers!


    Amitai.
  2. by   Diahni
    Hello All,
    Please enlighten me concerning the role of a NP vs. a PC - my impression is a PA is "married" to a doctor professionally, while NPs can be much more autonomous. While the health care industry is constantly trying to cut costs, I think this means NP will have more and more opportunities to practice.
    Diahni
  3. by   krisssy
    Quote from prairienp
    my heart wants to agree with you, but the "research" suggests little to no difference in performance after completion of a np program using years of experience as the independent variable.
    prairieenp, since i will be starting a nurse practitioner program with only two years of rn experience and not in the field that my np will be in, i would love to read the research you are referring to. can you please give us the link or where we can find it? thanks krisssy
  4. by   krisssy
    [QUOTE=macuser555]Wow, I have noticed the same thing about the older nurses. Many are overweight and eat junk food, smoke, and then complain they feel like crap.
    They see me eating healthy food and say they don't have time to eat healthy. Well, I work full time, go to two college classes, have a husband and a child at home, etc, etc. so I don't know what they are talking about.
    I think they love their unhealthy way of life.[/QUOTE

    Within the last five years, I have spent a lot of time in hospitals both as an RN and as a patient. I have watched and observed. I don't think poor nursing has anything to do with being "old, overweight, eating junk food or smoking". It has to do with being arrogant, uncaring and having absolutely no empathy for patients or students or new RN's in the workplace. I have seen this attitude in the young as well as the old (whatever you consider old to be), in the fat as well as the skinny, and in the smokers and the non smokers. Some nurses just appear to be unhappy with their profession, and they just aren't nice to anyone. They bash the patients who are "annoying", the families who are "annoying", the students and new or inexperienced RN's who need some help, and anyone else they come in contact with. Once we start saying that these characteristics are a certain age or weight, we are not being fair. I certainly agree that talking about nurses with eating problems, smoking problems or any other kind of personal problem including drugs , alcohol or mental illness, this is for another thread-and there are many of them. I don't see age as being a problem. I have seen many young nurses with horrible attitudes and many older nurses who are so motivated and empatetic and helpful, it is unbelievable. It could be that the particular nurses you work with just happen to have the attributes you describe.

    Getting back to the topic of this thread, I have shared before that I am an "older" nurse , with very little experience. I am starting school to be a psychiatric nurse practitioner. I will get the experience I need in whatever ways I can. I intend to begin the program and then see where it leads me. Maybe I will work as a staff psych RN, maybe I will find a great residency program, maybe there are other options I don't know about now. But I will never be a psych NP without the proper experience. I couldn't get the usual experience in psych when I was younger, because I got involved in another profession, and I am not sorry about that. I am highly motivated, very smart, great with patients and students and very empathetic. Just because I am unable to do this in the traditional way, and just because I am older doesn't mean that I can't have a goal for myself. I would never never put a patient in jeopardy and work without the proper experience. I may just have to go about it in a different way than the traditional way. Let's remember that there are so many different case scenerios in this thread, and let's give ideas and suggestions to eachother to help us reach our goals instead of being negative and saying it can only be done in one particular way.
  5. by   brownrice
    Krisssy,

    You missed my point! Being an RN who smokes, is obese, and of crankinees means that he/she cannot possibly serve as a credible role model/teacher to his/her patients in the name of promoting good health and well-being. In other words, healthcare providers must HEAL THYSELF before expecting to help heal anyone else.

    Buttons:
    Yes, this has everything to do with the original post by Pinoy: NP's basic charter is "holistic healthcare". Also, I have worked around many, many NP's and have yet to meet just one who smokes, is obese, or that has a really bad attitude. Many students are desiring to skip the tortuous journey of precept under the angry, cranky, obese RNs, to instead learn about being an NP. Afterall, why spend your time having a 50 year old nurse with a *"certificate of nursing" assigning you to empty urinals/reomve breakfast trays when your true interest is in learning about lab values...Go for it Pinoy, skip the RN hell and go directly to NP school!!

    *Yes, there are many of these "RN"s who never even attended a two year program. They attended a quickie program, and were grandfathered in to the profession. They are usually not too happy to be guiding a BSN.
  6. by   krisssy
    Quote from brownrice
    Krisssy,

    You missed my point! Being an RN who smokes, is obese, and of crankinees means that he/she cannot possibly serve as a credible role model/teacher to his/her patients in the name of promoting good health and well-being. In other words, healthcare providers must HEAL THYSELF before expecting to help heal anyone else.

    Buttons:
    Yes, this has everything to do with the original post by Pinoy: NP's basic charter is "holistic healthcare". Also, I have worked around many, many NP's and have yet to meet just one who smokes, is obese, or that has a really bad attitude. Many students are desiring to skip the tortuous journey of precept under the angry, cranky, obese RNs, to instead learn about being an NP. Afterall, why spend your time having a 50 year old nurse with a *"certificate of nursing" assigning you to empty urinals/reomve breakfast trays when your true interest is in learning about lab values...Go for it Pinoy, skip the RN hell and go directly to NP school!!

    *Yes, there are many of these "RN"s who never even attended a two year program. They attended a quickie program, and were grandfathered in to the profession. They are usually not too happy to be guiding a BSN.
    Brownrice,

    Sorry that I only responded to part of your post. We do AGREE on most points. I also believe we should be health care models. It is you mentioning age that bothered me a little. I am 58-thin, don't smoke and watch my diet constantly being very into healty eating. Regarding age, it is possible to have a 25 year old obese smoking nurse from a certificate program telling a new graduate who wants to be a NP to empty bedpans etc. At my ripe old age lol I am going to NP school starting in Jan. with very little experience working an an RN and none except clinicals in my chosen field of psych. I agree that I do not have to work med sug for a year to become good at being a psych NP. So we really do agree. Maybe I am too sensitive about the age issue myself, and I have to work on that. I believe that my teaching and life experience will make me better fit for this role than if I had done it at age 22 when I first became an RN. But if I was graduating as a young nurse in 2005, I would still be agreeing with you that the OP can go directly into being a NP. I would like to see NP's getting more clinical time in their studies and have residencey programs to go into as an alternative to feeling that they have to work as an RN in med surg first.
  7. by   Jolie
    Quote from brownrice
    Krisssy,
    Afterall, why spend your time having a 50 year old nurse with a *"certificate of nursing" assigning you to empty urinals/reomve breakfast trays

    *Yes, there are many of these "RN"s who never even attended a two year program. They attended a quickie program, and were grandfathered in to the profession. They are usually not too happy to be guiding a BSN.

    brownrice,

    What is a "certificate of nursing"? And how does one attend a "quickie program" and get "grandfathered in to the profession"?

    I realize that there are a number of accelerated BSN programs, but I don't think that is what you are referring to since "They are usually not too happy to be guiding a BSN."

    So how does one become an RN, other than attending an established ADN, BSN, or diploma program and passing NCLEX?
  8. by   brownrice
    Long before established two year ADN programs were around, there was a such thing as a certificate or diploma in nursing. It was a program to basicallly learn how to fold down bed corners, change bandages, and minor things that delicate females with feeble minds were capable of. Making a decision that required any sort of critical thinking was left to the men, who were the doctors.

    For reference, many of the BSN intro to nursing books discuss this type nursing certificate in the history of nursing section. Lets just say Microbiology, Statistics, and general Math skills were not a part of this program. It really is the humble beginnings of Formal Nursing Education. The two year nursing programs have not been around that long, relatively speaking.
  9. by   krisssy
    Quote from brownrice
    Long before established two year ADN programs were around, there was a such thing as a certificate or diploma in nursing. It was a program to basicallly learn how to fold down bed corners, change bandages, and minor things that delicate females with feeble minds were capable of. Making a decision that required any sort of critical thinking was left to the men, who were the doctors.

    For reference, many of the BSN intro to nursing books discuss this type nursing certificate in the history of nursing section. Lets just say Microbiology, Statistics, and general Math skills were not a part of this program. It really is the humble beginnings of Formal Nursing Education. The two year nursing programs have not been around that long, relatively speaking.
    In 1964, I was accepted into a hospital based school of nursing-three year-diploma program. I would have lived, learned and worked in the hospital for three years. Many nurses I know went to these programs and remember them as good times in their lives! I was so excited about going. At the last minute, I decided to go to a 4 year BSN program, as I thought that would be more educational and would get me a better job. I always wondered if I would have liked that origninal program better lol. At that time, there was no such thing as ADN, MS, PA, NP or female doctors-at least none that I knew of. We have certainly emerged into a different professional role as Brown
    Rice said. -not off topic-we need to realize the history of nursing when we talk about things like being a NP without practicing as an RN first. It really is very interesting to see the changes that have occured since those times.
  10. by   Ventjock
    Quote from Diahni
    Hello All,
    Please enlighten me concerning the role of a NP vs. a PC - my impression is a PA is "married" to a doctor professionally, while NPs can be much more autonomous. While the health care industry is constantly trying to cut costs, I think this means NP will have more and more opportunities to practice.
    Diahni
    go to www.physicianassistant.net

    one of the first thing PA haters will mention is that fact that PAs are not required to have a masters to practice.
    no biggy, since the name of the degree doesnt matter. a ADN, BSN, entry-MSN, and diploma RN are all the same *clinically*. im sure a few extra classes in history or english wont make you a better, RN, NP or PA....
    also all PAs take the same licensing exam, so again a certificate, AS, BS, or MS PA will all deliver the same care and demand the same wages. PA schools typically have more clinical hours than NP programs, 2200 hrs VS 600-800 hrs. there are residencies available to PAs also in derm, surgery, er, neuro, psych, and a few others. these typically pay $40k and the PA is treated like a resident. also both PAs and NPs can be quite autonomus with the SP. only a crappy provider (NP or PA) will have a doc over their shoulders.
    if you do pursue a nursing degree, i would say the best thing to do is to attend a dual NP/PA program. as a RN you would be able to take both examinations. so in regions or practices where they have preference for one provider you will not be affected. for ex. you would be able to work as a Neonate Intensivist (a NP stronghold) and a Surgery PA (a PA stronghold)......the two programs i know about are Stanford-Foothill and UC-Davis.

    after speaking to a nurse last night she really made me reconsider and think about entering nursing school. i really do see the benefits of a nursing career, even though at times it seems like i dont by my posts, forgive me for that. CRNA would be in the pic, AA is more limited state wise, and being a dual NP/PA would not stop me from obtaining any midlevel job. i went off topic but the choice between PA and NP should be based on what type of job you want and where you want to pratice, again because there are places in the country where one type of midlevel is preferred.
  11. by   mango-lo-maniac
    Quote from diahni
    hello all,
    please enlighten me concerning the role of a np vs. a pc - my impression is a pa is "married" to a doctor professionally, while nps can be much more autonomous. while the health care industry is constantly trying to cut costs, i think this means np will have more and more opportunities to practice.
    diahni
    depending on the setting, there isn't much difference in the roles of nps and pas. if you do a web search for jobs, you will find many that advertise "pa/np wanted," and there is no difference listed in the job or pay based on the educational background. my personal experience has been the same. i've seen pas & nps who work in specialty practices where a physician sees every pt behind them. i also know pas who own their practices, something that nps are able to do.

    i think your best bet will be to explore both professions, the educational processes, and the job settings you are interested in. then chose the path that speaks most to you.

    to get you started here are a few sources for objective data about pas:
    facts at a glance - check the job outlook by the us bureau of labor statistics
    pa education
    summary of state regulation of physician assistant practice
  12. by   Jolie
    Quote from brownrice
    Long before established two year ADN programs were around, there was a such thing as a certificate or diploma in nursing. It was a program to basicallly learn how to fold down bed corners, change bandages, and minor things that delicate females with feeble minds were capable of. Making a decision that required any sort of critical thinking was left to the men, who were the doctors.

    For reference, many of the BSN intro to nursing books discuss this type nursing certificate in the history of nursing section. Lets just say Microbiology, Statistics, and general Math skills were not a part of this program. It really is the humble beginnings of Formal Nursing Education. The two year nursing programs have not been around that long, relatively speaking.

    I still don't know what you are referring to. A hospital-based diploma program? I am in my 40's and attended a BSN program, but most of the older nurses I have worked with have diplomas from 3 year hospital-based programs. I daresay their education was more rigorous than mine. They attended 3 years of schooling (year-round), with more clinical time than I could have ever dreamed of. They graduated with skills and experience in virtually every area of nursing care. And they most certainly had formal coursework in science, math, social science, nutrition. Their capabilities go FAR beyond menial skills. By passing state boards (or NCLEX) they are most certainly entitled to the same practice privileges as RNs educated in ADN or BSN programs.
  13. by   DidiRN
    In my 20 years of nursing, the diploma new grads ran circles around BSN and ADN grads (I'm an ADN myself). Those were my earlier days though, since this type of program is now somewhat rare if it does still exist. Their clinical experience as students was tremendous, and they knew their stuff. I'm a bit sad to see this form of education go, because they were so well trained.
    I really don't know where you get this idea that they were "delicate females with feeble minds" who had no critical thinking skills. I think you owe diploma grads an apology for such a silly statement (one of many, I've noticed).
    Are you really a nurse?

    Quote from brownrice
    Long before established two year ADN programs were around, there was a such thing as a certificate or diploma in nursing. It was a program to basicallly learn how to fold down bed corners, change bandages, and minor things that delicate females with feeble minds were capable of. Making a decision that required any sort of critical thinking was left to the men, who were the doctors.

    For reference, many of the BSN intro to nursing books discuss this type nursing certificate in the history of nursing section. Lets just say Microbiology, Statistics, and general Math skills were not a part of this program. It really is the humble beginnings of Formal Nursing Education. The two year nursing programs have not been around that long, relatively speaking.

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