NP w/no desire for RN?

[UWSRN]

Go to med school! Part of being an NP is being the "nurse" in Nurse Practitioner. NPs have a different mentality than MDs and different responsibilities. If you have no desire for nursing that's fine... but it's telling you to go into medicine instead. NP education without the understanding and use of the RN license does not make for a good NP as many of us in my hospital and NP classes have been seeing in the past few years.

[scooterRN52]

I don't know how you can skip an RN program just to become an NP, that is not possible. Every RN I know who has advanced degree, must take state board exam.

We all carry the same license, professional nurse and take the same test, actually the computerized test is easier than the 2 days of testing I took 17 years ago. The PA's that I have worked w/ are not real knowledgeable when it comes to physical exam and assessment.

Although PAs make good money, they are lucky if they can find a position starting at 60,000.00 a year. If I was going to advance I would either become CRNA or med school.

[scooterRN52]

When are people going to realize, that an NP is an RN who has had more education and likes it that way. The people that want to skip the RN part of education are trying to be something that doesn't exist. 

Does anybody have any integrity out there? Lets face it! You must have the skill and experience of an RN before you move ahead.

[CStaples/NNP]

Pinoy2.0 said:

Well, not so much NO desire...but are there any NP's out there that wanted to become (and had their sights set on being an NP from day 1) an NP with no real 'drive' to be an RN first? My cousin is finishing up her RN-MSN program and never really wanted to become an RN, but she really wanted to become an NP, so she went the RN route to become an NP (which I know you have to do).

I know this is somewhat rare, but wondering are there any other NP's out there that looked at RN as kinda pre-NP school/clinical stuff in order to become an NP? Like, they may not be real thrilled with what they are doing (RN) but they know they have to do it in order to become an NP. Keep in mind I'm not saying you would hate being an RN or hate RN's or anything to that affect, but you dream has been to become an NP and RN school/work is a sort of necessary 'not the most enthusiastic' hurdle?

Many NP's had no desire to experience nursing school, BSN, me included.

There is a reason for this process.

I discovered that my calling was in the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit.

My experince as an RN was vital to my MSN/NNP.

I did have the pleasure of meeting an NNP who went straight thru w/o any RN experience.

Before working as a NNP, she was required to work as an RN for several months. I watched her struggle. She could not even start an IV on our babies.

So I say it again, there is a reason for this process!!

[cgfnp]

Go to med school! Part of being an NP is being the "nurse" in Nurse Practitioner. NPs have a different mentality than MDs and different responsibilities. If you have no desire for nursing that's fine... but it's telling you to go into medicine instead. NP education without the understanding and use of the RN license does not make for a good NP as many of us in my hospital and NP classes have been seeing in the past few years.

Spoken like a true educator. I don't even know why we have to keep the redundant separate RN license. I have absolutely no problem at all practicing family medicine, no matter what anyone says about practicing nursing vs medicine. I do exactly what the MDs do. And frankly, my patients have better control of their diabetes, HTN, and cholesterol than the docs' patients do. And, I generate more revenue. I'm not as educated in medicine as a doctor, of course, so I consult with them when needed, as most NPs are supposed to. And, I started NP school before I even finished BSN.

I dropped being the "nurse" in Nurse Practitioner as quick as I could. I don't start IVs or administer medications, I order them. I don't write nurses notes, I write progress notes. I don't report lab values, I interpret them. I don't write care plans, I write treatment plans. And, I don't know a single NP that does any differently. If they do, then they are no longer generating billing revenue, which makes administration unhappy. Hence the NPs that get less than RN wages and ruin the statistics for the rest of us keeping the salary offers low.

Ideally, there would be a graduate program that trained only family practice and dropped the nursing part altogether. BSN or any other undergrad degree could be eligible, whether they had 50 yrs RN experience or not. The training would be MUCH better subsituting all the cultural diversity and nursing theory paper writing crap with, gosh I don't know.... maybe EKG interpretation, diagnostics, office radiology, and things you actually need in a family practice. Some will say, "this is a PA", and it is similar, but PAs do educational rotations in departments other than family practice, so the "master's in family practice" would result in a better prepared practitioner trained the entire 2 yrs in family practice. They could still collaborate with a MD to keep malpractice costs down and provide expert consultation for the difficult cases.

In the mean time, we FNPs will have to practice for the first few years out of school very carefully no matter how much time we spent as a RN, consulting often until we teach ourselves the stuff we should've got in grad school instead of writing an APA style paper about the effects of bawling all over a patient.

All in all, maybe this NP w/ no exp as RN topic would never have risen had the grad training been adequate in the first place. I mean, if the training was great, no one would need the RN experience to be competent, right?

[brownrice]

CGFNP:

Amen! You are RIGHT ON with your message. Some may not like the direct approach, but yes, XXXXXXXXXXX. Those that can't stand the heat need to get outta the kitchen. There is something to be said for those with the courage to say it like it is, rather than back stab or complain behind someone's back about issues that can be dealt with head on. Perhaps this is why men seem to have better luck rising to the top?

As for Theory, APA papers and the like, it's a ridiculous waste of time.

[RN/MSN/JD]

Well, not so much NO desire...but are there any NP's out there that wanted to become (and had their sights set on being an NP from day 1) an NP with no real 'drive' to be an RN first? My cousin is finishing up her RN-MSN program and never really wanted to become an RN, but she really wanted to become an NP, so she went the RN route to become an NP (which I know you have to do).

I know this is somewhat rare, but wondering are there any other NP's out there that looked at RN as kinda pre-NP school/clinical stuff in order to become an NP? Like, they may not be real thrilled with what they are doing (RN) but they know they have to do it in order to become an NP. Keep in mind I'm not saying you would hate being an RN or hate RN's or anything to that affect, but you dream has been to become an NP and RN school/work is a sort of necessary 'not the most enthusiastic' hurdle?

This phenomenon is not unusual. But it troubles me. It troubles me for a variety of reasons.

First, I think nurses becoming NPs who do not want to be RNs first are dividing the profession (as if it isn't already divided enough). In order for nurses to have power we need to be united. I was a nurse for years before I became and NP. But when I did go for that credential, I was in school with nonRNs who were going through a 'bridge program.' They resented the RNs because we knew more and we resented them because we felt they were getting something they had not earned. The class was divided and so is the profession.

I have heard a lot of nasty remarks from those with whom I went to school about nursing and that hurts. They separate themselves out as being better than the rest of us.

Second, one reason nurse practitioners have been so effective is that we are nurses FIRST. We use the nursing model with the medical model incorporated. Having some years of practice in the nursing model only makes one a more effective clinician.

Third, nursing still eats its own young. The nurses who are still working in the ranks respect one who has come up through the ranks, but they do not respect and many times try to resist those who did not come up through the ranks.

Fourth, and I must ask forgiveness for this each time I pray. I live in the south and am familiar with an expression suggesting that one should put his/her heart in dixie or getout. As a nurse first, and whose life work has been NURSING, I must confess I feel the same way about nursing. Put your heart in NURSING or get out. Just my NSHO.

[Cyndee, MSN, NP]

This phenomenon is not unusual. But it troubles me. It troubles me for a variety of reasons.

First, I think nurses becoming NPs who do not want to be RNs first are dividing the profession (as if it isn't already divided enough). In order for nurses to have power we need to be united. I was a nurse for years before I became and NP. But when I did go for that credential, I was in school with nonRNs who were going through a 'bridge program.' They resented the RNs because we knew more and we resented them because we felt they were getting something they had not earned. The class was divided and so is the profession.

I have heard a lot of nasty remarks from those with whom I went to school about nursing and that hurts. They separate themselves out as being better than the rest of us.

I was also a nurse for years before I went through a nurse practitioner program. I was shocked on the first day of grad school when I learned that more than half the people in the program hadn't even taken the NCLEX yet! This had to be explained to me over and over again. I had no idea that these programs actually existed. I live in Texas, but chose to go to a school in Tennessee because I wanted a graduate degree from a top tier university. In every single NP program in Texas, one has to have at least 1 year of experience as a RN (no one actually gets in with 1 years worth of experience though) before applying.

The majority of us graduated from that program in August of '05, and then returned for the official graduation in May of '06. Well, almost every single one of the direct entry students (I believe that's what they call them) were working as RN's because they felt they needed the experience! Never mind that they were credentialed as NP's! So, when the rubber hits the road, all that RN experience really is worthwhile!

p.s. actually there is something worse than a NP who never worked as a RN...it's a NP INSTRUCTOR who has never worked as a RN. We had a few of those where I went to school. WHAT A JOKE!!!

[linzyann]

I am mainly interested in becoming an NP or a Nurse Midwife, but for me, spending some time as an RN is a major part of my education towards this role- sort of like an MD/DO residency. Thats the way I am looking at the situation, anyway.

[Cyndee, MSN, NP]

I have been reading this thread for months, and it has begun to change my mind about my future. I am currently in a NP online program in mental health. I graduated in 1969 with a BSN, have two years experience as a school nurse teacher, 25 years as a classroom teacher, and 31 years as a mother of three. After reading this thread for all these months and another thread on volunteering, I am wondering if I am off base. Taking a mental health NP program online, which I am doing well at, may not be the way to go. I am now thinking of volunteering as a cuddler in an NICU dept. with the hope of getting a good orientation and a job as an RN there after a few years of cuddling as a volunteer. Cuddlers do all sorts of things. I love all kinds of nursing except one or two. Do you think that this is a better way for me to go? I already took a med surg refresher course and did well. I am just thinking that maybe I am doing this backwards and should get the experience and then the acadamic education instead of the academic education and then the experience. Any advice on my situation would be helpful. Krisssy

Why don't you just start working as a psych nurse while you're going through school? I worked as a psych nurse for years, and the night shift is a piece of cake. That way, you'll be prepared when you graduate. I will say this, psych nursing isn't for everyone. It can be very frustrating and unrewarding, not to mention dangerous. We used to get a lot of RN's from the hospital to fill in when we were understaffed and several of them said they would never work on a psych unit again! Mental health/Psych NP's are in high demand and make the big bucks, but there's a reason why.

[rn/writer, RN]

Why don't you just start working as a psych nurse while you're going through school? I worked as a psych nurse for years, and the night shift is a piece of cake. That way, you'll be prepared when you graduate. I will say this, psych nursing isn't for everyone. It can be very frustrating and unrewarding, not to mention dangerous. We used to get a lot of RN's from the hospital to fill in when we were understaffed and several of them said they would never work on a psych unit again! Mental health/Psych NP's are in high demand and make the big bucks, but there's a reason why.

Speaking as a nurse with years of psych experience, I find it hard to reconcile the thought of working night shift on a psych being a "piece of cake" with the much more likely reality that psych can be frustrating, unrewarding, and dangerous.

Psych is usually physically less demanding than, say, med-surg but all bets are off during a take-down of an aggressive/attacking patient. You also have to develop and use a high level of personal vigilance that is not commonly required in other areas of nursing. This refers to a constant awareness of your own physical safety as well as the monitoring of emotional involvement/attachment with your patients. If you don't keep your guard up in a healthy way, you can find yourself getting drawn in to the drama and "taken in" by patients who sometimes have decades of experience in staff splitting and the forming of inappropriate bonds.

Psych is a challenging and sometimes rewarding specialty, but it's not for the faint of heart.

Krissy, I've read some of your other posts and it seems like you are mostly looking for a door to get back into nursing. You could go after another credential, but that doesn't guarantee that you'll end up with what you want.

I think you may have something with the idea of volunteering. You could try several areas that sound appealing and get to know the staff and the atmosphere on a particular unit. As a volunteer, you aren't making a long-term committment. You can try different options till you find something you feel is a good fit. Then you can look into what it would take to find actual employment with that facility.

If you live anywhere near a children's hospital, that might be a good place to start. With both nursing and teaching degrees, you might find opportunities with a child life department.

I'm not putting down the idea of becoming an NP. Only saying that in your particular circumstances there might be quicker ways of accomplishing your goals.

[Cyndee, MSN, NP]

Speaking as a nurse with years of psych experience, I find it hard to reconcile the thought of working night shift on a psych being a "piece of cake" with the much more likely reality that psych can be frustrating, unrewarding, and dangerous.

Psych is usually physically less demanding than, say, med-surg but all bets are off during a take-down of an aggressive/attacking patient. You also have to develop and use a high level of personal vigilance that is not commonly required in other areas of nursing. This refers to a constant awareness of your own physical safety as well as the monitoring of emotional involvement/attachment with your patients. If you don't keep your guard up in a healthy way, you can find yourself getting drawn in to the drama and "taken in" by patients who sometimes have decades of experience in staff splitting and the forming of inappropriate bonds.

Psych is a challenging and sometimes rewarding specialty, but it's not for the faint of heart.

Krissy, I've read some of your other posts and it seems like you are mostly looking for a door to get back into nursing. You could go after another credential, but that doesn't guarantee that you'll end up with what you want.

I think you may have something with the idea of volunteering. You could try several areas that sound appealing and get to know the staff and the atmosphere on a particular unit. As a volunteer, you aren't making a long-term committment. You can try different options till you find something you feel is a good fit. Then you can look into what it would take to find actual employment with that facility.

If you live anywhere near a children's hospital, that might be a good place to start. With both nursing and teaching degrees, you might find opportunities with a child life department.

I'm not putting down the idea of becoming an NP. Only saying that in your particular circumstances there might be quicker ways of accomplishing your goals.

I also worked psych for years, including travel assignments from New York City to Colorado and everywhere in between. I worked every shift on every unit and by far the easiest job I have ever had was working psych at night. Every single person I have ever worked with during the night shift concurred. In fact, I worked the night shift during graduate school and was able to study or write papers at least 85% of the time while I was at work. The vast majority of the night shift workers were pursuing degrees and they specifically worked psych so they would have all that "down" time to study. Of course, working other shifts was very stressful and there was absolutely no time to study.