NP w/no desire for RN?

Specialties NP Nursing Q/A

Well, not so much NO desire...but are there any NP's out there that wanted to become (and had their sights set on being an NP from day 1) an NP with no real 'drive' to be an RN first? My cousin is finishing up her RN-MSN program and never really wanted to become an RN, but she really wanted to become an NP, so she went the RN route to become an NP (which I know you have to do).

I know this is somewhat rare, but wondering are there any other NP's out there that looked at RN as kinda pre-NP school/clinical stuff in order to become an NP? Like, they may not be real thrilled with what they are doing (RN) but they know they have to do it in order to become an NP. Keep in mind I'm not saying you would hate being an RN or hate RN's or anything to that affect, but you dream has been to become an NP and RN school/work is a sort of necessary 'not the most enthusiastic' hurdle?

To the original poster:

It could have been me who wrote your post. I had/have the exact same feelings and am in that transition state currently. I just finished an accelerated program in may 2005 passed NCLEX in July, been working since September as a RN on a Peds unit.

My history: BS in Pre-Med/Biology, with the intentions of becoming a Doctor, i speak fluent german and wanted to go to med school in Germany, but there acceptance rate is also tight and i was pretty sure i wouldn't get in because there are only 18 places open for all foreigners into the Med program. While i was in Germany waiting for a reply i did some long and hard thinking, and praying if i should still go to med school.. The decision was never based on being able to do it (difficulty) but just if i really wanted to be in school that long.. (and working at Taco bell with a bachelors b/c that's all i could get) i am also an EMT and always wanted to work in the medical field.

that being said: I NEVER wanted to be a nurse... never say never!

My mom is a nurse, and told me to never be a nurse, and she actually loves being a nurse, just not some of the things about nursing, wages, treatment, etc..

Anyways, i got a letter from the Med School in Germany saying i wasn't accepted. So this confirmed my answer to consider other options. I looked at foreign med schools, PA school, and discovered NP's and just what exactly a NP does and their scope of practice. I also talked to a PA who said don't waste your time with PA, go to med school he said the first 3 years you are with all the other med students, then you graduate and get paid way less but are expected to do many of the same duties. Then i discovered that there were programs where you could go to school and get your NP in 3 years. After researching what exactly a NP does (diagnose, treat, prescribe) and also pondering that i never really wanted to cut people open (PA/MD) but i LOVE disease so i REALLY, REALLY wanted to be able to diagnosis.. i love VIRUSES, and BACTERIA! So after i made this decision, the medical school sent another letter saying that they were now giving me acceptance (someone declined) so for me it was a major goal just to be accepted and i know i could have done it if i wanted to and that was not my limiting factor.

So i completed the accelerated program last year. I must say although it was probably the worst year of my life, the courses themselves are pretty easy. I dont' want to make anyone mad but sometimes i feel that way about nursing. The reason the accelerated program is so difficult is not because the level of education is so high, it is just because they give you so much work (and piddly busy work) plus clinicals, plus papers, plus exams.. so you really don't have any free time, but the work itself is not that hard. I think nursing in general is a "forgiving" field, they want people to understand, and be able to pass the tests. I just say this because my courses in Biology, virology, immunology, physiology, physics, organic chem were at least 10x more difficult. And at my undergrad school, the nursing students only had to take a basic (nursing) version of physics, bio, chem, etc. That being said i think in general (most) nurses are very intelligent.

I moved back to my CO my state of residence because i didn't want 100,000 in loans for 3 years of school at the private school (FL) i was at, so i had no problem getting into this school in CO without any experience. And i think in general ANY school that offers accelerated nursing programs will also accept RNs without experience.

Besides this program will end up being 2.5 years including summers (vs. other program 2 years/4 semesters) I don't start clinicals till this summer so i will already be working 8 months.

But anyone who chooses this route be prepared for resistance. I was a little suprised by the negativity i recieved when i told my fellow employees that i am also in school. i got "don't you think you need experience?" "so you think your going to be a good NP without experience?"

my reply is: Well for one i will have 2.5 years experience as an RN when i finish, and two, adv. patho, adv. assessment, etc, are only going to benefit me in my job as a RN, also they are two different roles doing two different things, and the main thing i need to take with me in the new role is caring for the patient as a whole person.

Another thing, Grad school so far hasn't been really hard at all, actually one class is a joke.. i just thought i would be much more challenged, as i know i would be if i were working on a Bio grad degree..

Also although being a nurse was never my goal i don't mind working as a nurse, and actually like it. I think in this situation, you have to find a field you like to work in. If you like ER get a job as RN there, if you like Peds work there.... Plus its nice having a real job, and getting actually paid decent money, and i get to work with kids which i like.

In case your wondering my main goal is to complete my education as FNP. Move back to germany, work civilian at a military base (so i can pay back loans from last year) and travel to poor foreign countries to provide free medical care for poor people. Also i plan to be a missionary in Germany and perhaps other (poor) countries.

Neelia

Pinoy 0.2

My decision was not made easily. I listened to pros and cons of going for my psych nurse practioner's masters with no psych experience except during clinicals. All together, many more professionals on this web site told me to go for it. I just got accepted to the psychiatric nurse practitioner's Program University of Missouri-Columbia, and I am starting this winter. They do require RN experience in other areas but not in psych. I am very excited about starting this program. I don't know exactly what kind of job I want right now. Only time will tell. And if after my clinical hours and graduation, if for any reason I feel that I need more experience, I will work as a psych staff RN to get it. So every situation is different. I would suggest you listen to everyone's opinions, contact some schools and then make a deicsion based on what you have been told, your personal needs and your goals. Krisssy(an untraditional student, teacher and nurse lol)

You go, girl! You may find that it's not the relative lack of clinical experience that might stymie you in grad school, but the fact you'll be the "old lady" in the class. But your skills as a successful teacher will probably see you through any potential rough spots in school ... I envy you your teaching experience. That might better prepare you for grad school than med/surg experience. Sending you good luck vibes and lots of support,

Another older returning student

I think a large part of the problem driving these discussions of experience as an RN as a prerequisite for becoming an advanced practice nurse is the way the programs are structured and frustration with lack of supervised clinical experience as an APRN we get after graduation. Medical school takes students without clinical experience, gives them 2 years of classroom work, then two years of clinicals, then after graduation they get a year of internship and a 2-to-whatever-year residency to hone clinical skills. No one in their right mind would call a new MD graduate a skilled physician. What do we NPs get? A two year program (full time) into which is crammed way more than two year's worth of knowledge we need in order to practice, a struggle to retain this vast amount of information (I suppose we're to pick up the balance of knowledge we need after graduation while studying for boards ... ???), some clinical hours, then ... thrown out the door to practice! Why isn't there a standardized internship for NP graduates of every discipline, like new MDs get? Is this even being discussed by those who are advocating making a doctorate the entry into practice for NPs? At this point, I tend to support this practice doctorate, BTW, if it is, say, 3 years instead of 2, because the way knowledge is expanding in health care, there is too much to learn in 2 years to be even a midlevel provider -- I just believe a formal internship after graduation needs to be a part of this discussion. We all need formal mentoring, supervision, and support after graduation like the MDs get.

I think a large part of the problem driving these discussions of experience as an RN as a prerequisite for becoming an advanced practice nurse is the way the programs are structured and frustration with lack of supervised clinical experience as an APRN we get after graduation. Medical school takes students without clinical experience, gives them 2 years of classroom work, then two years of clinicals, then after graduation they get a year of internship and a 2-to-whatever-year residency to hone clinical skills. No one in their right mind would call a new MD graduate a skilled physician. What do we NPs get? A two year program (full time) into which is crammed way more than two year's worth of knowledge we need in order to practice, a struggle to retain this vast amount of information (I suppose we're to pick up the balance of knowledge we need after graduation while studying for boards ... ???), some clinical hours, then ... thrown out the door to practice! Why isn't there a standardized internship for NP graduates of every discipline, like new MDs

get? Is this even being discussed by those who are advocating making a doctorate the entry into practice for NPs? At this point, I tend to support this practice doctorate, BTW, if it is, say, 3 years instead of 2, because the way knowledge is expanding in health care, there is too much to learn in 2 years to be even a midlevel provider -- I just believe a formal internship after graduation needs to be a part of this discussion. We all need formal mentoring, supervision, and support after graduation like the MDs get.

I totally agree. I, as well as other students in my program did more than the required numbers of clinical hours. Even with that, some of us felt as though we were not fully prepared for the responsibility we were about to assume. I remember communicating this to a practicing NP, and she said "we all had the same feelings, but you fake it till you make it and eventually you will pick up the knowledge you need on the job." I was horrified. I am all for some kind of formal mentoring and supervision after graduation.

still in bsn school, but the cold hard facts are in and it all comes down to the bottom line. from what we are being told by the director who is on the national board that sets standards for all the universities is this...

statistically, adns can care for 4 patients safely, bsns, up to 8, safely. the immediate trend will be to require adns to get on the bsn tract or lose their jobs, or be relegated to techs. the msn will be in charge of care plan coordination at the floor level. nps will take about 12 more credit hours to earn a dnp (doctorate in nursing practice).

good idea, actually. if you think about it, the core assessment and clinical courses at the bsn level are all pre-requisites for the same advanced courses required in the fnp program.

g

i can't comment about the np portion of your post, but i have plenty to say about the rest.

whose "cold hard facts" are you referring to?

there's an old saying that keeps proving itself true. "there are lies, damned lies, and statistics."

the above statements might represent someone's ideal scenario, but they just aren't grounded in reality. what determines safe staffing ratios isn't whether you have an adn or a bsn after your name, but rather workload, patient acuity, and the skill and experience level of the individual nurse. i have never been in any facility where adns and bsns were treated differently when it came to making assignments. in fact, unless adn or bsn is listed on a nurse's nametag or you ask outright, you really can't tell who has what kind of degree.

unless taking two additional years of academic classes will enable you to clone yourself, i don't see how they can make you capable of doubling your workload. if you showed this sentence to the average floor nurse, she'd roll her eyes and shake her head as she flew down the hall to her next patient.

as for the "immediate trend," i haven't seen any evidence of this whatsoever. again, this might be wishful thinking on the part of those who have lots of letters behind their names, but as far as i can see, it just isn't happening out in the real world. yes, there are adns on a bsn track, and there are plenty of ads that offer such opportunities, but when i was looking for a job last spring, i read through thousands of job listings and, other than advanced practice positions, i'd estimate that fewer than 5% said "bsn required." perhaps another 5% stated "bsn preferred" but those i inquired about had some flexibility, especially if the nurse had applicable experience.

twenty-five years ago, there was talk of doing away with lpns. then hmos came into existence and, far from the lower echelon folks being eliminated, they became more important than ever while the guys at the top of the food chain--the docs--found their jobs in jeopardy. i find serious flaws in the reasoning and the values of many hmos, but as long as there are financial watchdogs participating in health care decision-making, there will always be a need for lpns. and as long as there is any kind of shortage in nursing (projected to increase and remain for several decades, at least), adns neednot worry about being eliminated, "relegated to techs," or forced to get their bsns.

ivory tower thinking is almost always influenced by a tremendous disconnect from grass roots experience. whether it's a lack of proximity, wishful thinking, subtle class warfare, sour grapes (i worked so hard for so long, why shouldn't everyone else have to), or wistful idealism, i can't say. i do know that if you told the nurses at my hospital that bsns were now going to have twice as many patients as adns (whether you doubled the former's assignment or halved the latter's), you'd either be laughed out of the place or you'd have to duck and cover.

Even with that, some of us felt as though we were not fully prepared for the responsibility we were about to assume.

I wonder how this impacts those who want to go straight into NP school with no RN experience? Even though RN practice is not the same as NP practice you still have some valuable experience behind you.

Hello, Pinoy2.0,:balloons:

I think I understand what you are saying. You are interested in becoming an NP, but, do not want to practice as an RN. Well, as you possibly know, you must become RN first. An NP is an RN, practicing in the advanced role.

Normally, and, I make this suggestion for any RN contemplating the role of NP, you should work as a RN for a while before going to an NP program. You need the experience the RN gathers in order to make yourself a better NP. This experience is invaluable. I had no idea I was going to make an NP when I graduated from my nursing program. I worked for a few years before that realization set in. Then, I did a 4 year preceptorship with an OB-GYN specialist before going to an NP program. The experience I gained as an RN truly set my course for the advanced practice role as NP. Don't sell the role of RN short here. You need that experience in order to go forward.

Now, I do not advocate that all RNs work for years and years before undertaking NP school. Just get some experience as an RN first. What I did for myself was strictly what I thought was necessary.

Good luck in whatever you choose.

WOW:yeah: How long did it take you to get where you are now?:bowingpur

I was an RN for 32 years before I went to NP school and I am now a certified NP. The diagnosis I make along with management and evaluation of patients almost always reflect past experiences as a RN. You must practice as a RN before you can be a competent NP. I wouldn't trade those 32 years for anything, not even becoming a NP years ago. My RN experience truly makes me a more credible NP. Plus the salary isn't that much more than that of a RN. If you practice in a rural area, you have to depend on your past RN experiences in order to practice safe NP care.

i think a large part of the problem driving these discussions of experience as an rn as a prerequisite for becoming an advanced practice nurse is the way the programs are structured and frustration with lack of supervised clinical experience as an aprn we get after graduation. medical school takes students without clinical experience, gives them 2 years of classroom work, then two years of clinicals, then after graduation they get a year of internship and a 2-to-whatever-year residency to hone clinical skills. no one in their right mind would call a new md graduate a skilled physician. what do we nps get? a two year program (full time) into which is crammed way more than two year's worth of knowledge we need in order to practice, a struggle to retain this vast amount of information (i suppose we're to pick up the balance of knowledge we need after graduation while studying for boards ... ???), some clinical hours, then ... thrown out the door to practice! why isn't there a standardized internship for np graduates of every discipline, like new mds get? is this even being discussed by those who are advocating making a doctorate the entry into practice for nps? at this point, i tend to support this practice doctorate, btw, if it is, say, 3 years instead of 2, because the way knowledge is expanding in health care, there is too much to learn in 2 years to be even a midlevel provider -- i just believe a formal internship after graduation needs to be a part of this discussion. we all need formal mentoring, supervision, and support after graduation like the mds get.

one of the reasons mds have and nps don't have an internship is $$$$. the residency for mds is paid by your tax dollars. nps are not eligible for the same program. all residents, no matter where they graduated from (us or outside us) receive their salaries from the us government via our tax dollars. wouldn't it be great if nps could take a year after graduation to hone their skills and receive a modest salary under the direction of a residency program.

I may be old fashion,BUT I don't want a green NP taking care of me as a Patient who has not had any experience. I have been a Nurse for 28 years 18 of which I was a LPN,10 as a RN. I have 2 years into a NP program and if I hadn't had my experience I would have a hard time.. Think about it do you just want someone who is book smart

I may be old fashion,BUT I don't want a green NP taking care of me as a Patient who has not had any experience. I have been a Nurse for 28 years 18 of which I was a LPN,10 as a RN. I have 2 years into a NP program and if I hadn't had my experience I would have a hard time.. Think about it do you just want someone who is book smart

i may be old fashion,but i don't want a green np taking care of me as a patient who has not had any experience. i have been a nurse for 28 years 18 of which i was a lpn,10 as a rn. i have 2 years into a np program and if i hadn't had my experience i would have a hard time.. think about it do you just want someone who is book smart

my heart wants to agree with you, but the "research" suggests little to no difference in performance after completion of a np program using years of experience as the independent variable.

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