lying about clinical hours

Specialties NP

Published

I have an issue and maybe some of you can make light of it for me. I am a practicing FNP and have been asked to be a preceptor for someone whom I work with. He is in FNP school and thankfully I am not his preceptor at this time. When I ask how his hours are coming along he says just fine. He is in his 2nd clinical rotation and is working full time. All of the NP programs I know of require 16 hours of clinical hours per week. He takes one day off his full time job weekly to complete an 8 hour clinical rotation. He states he can see 16 patients a day and count each patient as 1 hour of clinical since it takes him 1 hour to work up the patient, which is complete BS. I know he cannot take off work to have a second day of clinical so he just reports the fake hours. So basically will have half of the clinical hours needed. He just finished his first rotation a few weeks ago and I thought he would have been caught but wasn't. He also says that other people in the program are doing the same thing, only 1 day a week and counting it as 2.

I and everyone I know that has completed a NP program has worked their butt off to complete their program and it just really irritates me that others just mend the program to their liking. Has anyone else experienced this?? It is really cheating in my opinion and I feel it takes integrity away from the profession and people are taking short cuts.

I am not in FNP school, but I know I definitely would not want to be seen by an FNP who only had half the clinical time! It says a lot about this student's integrity. Also, do we not learn the best with clinical experience? That seems like a careless and risky move on behalf of any type of nursing student lying about clinical hours. First, risking safety of patients. Secondly, risking his/her career. If multiple students are lying about clinical hours I think the school should be aware of "the misinterpretation" and need to clarify and confirm proper fulfillment of all clinical hours.

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Specializes in Hospitalist Medicine.
Thank you for everyone's feedback. I have confronted this person and tried to politely inquire about how the school wants them to account for the hours and he states this is what he and everyone else he knows in the program is doing. He has said they are only allowed to log no more than 10 patients in 1 day so he has to be putting it in 2 days. One of the other students in the program who is also working full time does clinical in 2 half days/week. I am not sure how they are logging in their e-logs, they could be putting 2 days down, who knows. I am not in fact his preceptor but have been approved to be, we don't see kids under the age of 3 so he could not use me.

As a Chamberlain student, I can most definitely say this is NOT how clinical hours are done. It is extremely unethical what he's doing. It is very easy to get in contact with the appropriate person, just call Chamberlain's Student Services line and ask to speak to an FNP Clinical Coordinator. They will take care of this immediately. It's people like this who give those of us who work hard and put our heart & soul in to this a bad name.

BTW, he is not telling the truth. FNP students are required to do 18 hours of clinicals per week. Preferably in three 6 hour shifts or two 8 hour shifts every 7 weeks (the 8th week of every session there is no clinical).

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Specializes in ICU; Telephone Triage Nurse.

He will be busted soon enough. Glad he's not my PCP.

Everyone thinks the rules, made for a reason, don't apply to them. I wonder if it is just human nature? It took me at least 40 years to realize I am not exempt from the rules - it must have been my own immaturity. I now fully understand that the rules DO apply to me too. Hopefully he gets this same wake up call, and soon.

NP's have a huge responsibility. Every provider needs the educational time set in place by their licensing board. End of story.

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BTW: My previous rheumatologist moved away, and the MD who bought the practice also hired a NP. I was friendly with the front office staff (after many years as a patient in the practice) who were hired on along with the change in provider … and I was told that the NP had to be let go - he was only able to see 2 patients, 3 tops, in a day. He was scheduled to see patients in 15 minute blocks of appointment time. He may have done his clinical rotations by the book, but he sure wasn't able to handle real world patient care. Where will this guy end up upon graduation? Food for thought.

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Specializes in Psych.

Forget getting in trouble with school... In Texas academic dishonesty can get you in trouble with BON.

I don't think a co-worker would approach me like this, but if they did I'd have to tell them in writing that what they are doing is academic dishonesty and fraud and if they continue to attempt to involve me in it I'm going to have to forward that to university and BON.

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, BTW, he is not telling the truth. FNP students are required to do 18 hours of clinicals per week. Preferably in three 6 hour shifts or two 8 hour shifts every 7 weeks (the 8th week of every session there is no clinical).

But how do we know if someone's telling the truth or should I say how do we really know who's telling the truth?

If I were in the OP shoes and something is just unethical about something; and that something is "blatantly" so wrong, I would definitely do something about it. But I will gather more facts and inquire more information before doing so. That's just my principle!

I sense something is just not right and missing here..... :no:

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1) yes some programs allow 1 hour per patient in the first rotations. I have met other NP students from schools Where they are allowed that much time. I think the reason is that it is more work at first and they give them credit for logging into the system (that I cannot remember the name of).

2) You need to go find yourself some business and stay out of his and his preceptors. What right do you have to involve yourself or make comments about his school? He has a preceptor who is responsible and signed an agreement to precept him. You want be all Mrs kravitz about that reflects poorly on the profession as well.

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Ben_Dover, what could be missing?

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1) yes some programs allow 1 hour per patient in the first rotations. I have met other NP students from schools Where they are allowed that much time. I think the reason is that it is more work at first and they give them credit for logging into the system (that I cannot remember the name of).

2) You need to go find yourself some business and stay out of his and his preceptors. What right do you have to involve yourself or make comments about his school? He has a preceptor who is responsible and signed an agreement to precept him. You want be all Mrs kravitz about that reflects poorly on the profession as well.

The question is not whether it is allowed to log 1 patient per hour. The point is that he is logging 16 hours, when in reality he is only taking part in 1. I have a feeling that his school does not endorse this practise.

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But how do we know if someone's telling the truth or should I say how do we really know who's telling the truth?

If I were in the OP shoes and something is just unethical about something; and that something is "blatantly" so wrong, I would definitely do something about it. But I will gather more facts and inquire more information before doing so. That's just my principle!

I sense something is just not right and missing here..... :no:

I would think that SopranoKris is the one telling the truth because his/her post seems more in line with nursing ethical standards. Everyone would be flocking to a school that allows students to only complete 50% of the required clinical hours (considering that most people in NP programs also work, generally speaking). It probably would not be the first we heard of this phenomenon if it were true.

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On one hand, I agree with you, OP. It irks me when I come across students who "tweak" their clinical hours.

On the other hand, what is the school doing to resolve the problem? Are they even making an effort to make sure that the students are at the clinical sites when they say they are?

I have had situations where the school would nitpick my studies yet be lenient with others'. When those students take advantage of their leniency by, say, fudging their hours, I cannot help but laugh inside.

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Specializes in Emergency Nursing.

I find this story is completely unreal, the student absolutely should not be asking the OP to complete his homework from him. The fact that he is lying about his clinical hours is completely unethical and the fact that the OP is aware of it puts him/her in a difficult position. I would say that the best thing is to contact the school and tell them that you are no longer able to be a preceptor for the student. If they ask why then you can say that you have some concerns about his professionalism or you can say that you don't think it would be a good fit but I would not elaborate on the details any further than that (let them figure it out). The student will obviously become aware of it and if he asks you questions then say that you aren't comfortable being his preceptor based on some of his behavior.

If you haven't already, I would make it implicitly clear to him that you are not doing his homework for him anymore because you graduated school already and he will need to learn to manage his time more efficiently. He is going to be responsible for the health and lives of patients and he needs to know the essential content in order to deliver safe care.

On a side note, I'm in NP school and I find it funny (odd really) how some students try to stretch their clinical hours when they are short and then you have students like me (and a few of my close friends) who are trying to find ways to sneak in extra clinical hours with our preceptors so we can get in more patient care experience. I think clinical is one of the most important parts of NP school and I would easily do double the number of hours if I could.

!Chris :specs:

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Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.

I agree. I'm an FNP student and working my butt off to learn as much as I can in order to be prepared to be a competent practitioner. This person is undermining our profession and is likely to continue taking shortcuts when caring for patients. I would never want this person to be my provider!

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