Why is it MEN seem to get along better in this field than WOMEN??!!! - page 9

Hello this was brought up to me so now I'm sharing it with you all, I had a new R.N. nurse come to me in tears because another R.N. treated and talked to her very badly when she asked her basic... Read More

  1. by   Spoiled1
    Quote from cheerfuldoer
    bingo! this is just one reason why this woman will never vote for a female president of the united states of america!
    i don't think you are in a postiton to say what i will or will not do. like my other post stated, this is only my opinion! you can choose to agree or disagree, but please don't cross the line with comments as such.
  2. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from Stitchie
    Well, we are talking about female's vs. male's. And the majority of the posts on this seems to say that 'females are catty, manipulative' etc.

    As far as I'm concerned, I'm a female, I chose my behavior, therefore it is my 'female behavior'.

    It may not work for you, but it works for me.
    Just because that majority of the posts have label some females as whatever, doesn't mean that the majority rules.

    Your behavior that you choose is you own personal behavior, no matter what you call it.

    Never would i consider my behavior or thought as "female". And that completely works for me.
  3. by   nursemike
    Kind of a lively thread, eh? I have to admit, I do sometimes buy into the notion that women are catty and men are good-natured dullards, but it ain't necessarily true. The most mentoring, supportive nurses in my workplace happen to be women. Mostly somewhat older women, which is interesting, though I doubt all of them are post-menopausal--I'm thinking it may have more to do with experience than hormones, and of course it has a lot to do with character (anyone with the guts to stay in nursing for twenty years must have some inner fortitude).
    I tend to agree with those who are skeptical of "generalized, collective" solutions, but I do concur with the need for a more positive environment. One thing I've noticed in school is that we few males do seem to feel a bit of comaradarie, since we are so vastly outnumbered. (That, and we spend a ridiculous amount of time discussing our more attractive classmates. That's probably a.) normal and b.) a subtle way of advertising our heterosexuality.)
    I don't know--I've always thought I was pretty well in touch with my feminine side, even before nursing. I've always felt nurturing toward the critters in my life, and while children frighten me, I try to be kind to them. I think we all have attributes of both genders within us, if we are secure enough to access them.
    I've also noticed that the women I like best are usually kind of tomboyish in their interests. To some extent, it may just be that physically active women tend to be better-looking, but I think it has as much to do with attitude. My advice, then, to women who do find it difficult to get along with other women would be to notice the few things we men do right, and copy them. Try to remember, though, that we've had our whole lives to practice.
    My other advice is to try to look at a difficult co-worker through the same eyes you would a difficult patient. Sometimes people don't seem quite as bad if you can understand the issues they bring with them. Sometimes. Other times, there's a lot to be said for just steering clear of the jerks as much as possible.
  4. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from LPN2Be2004
    Collective and generalized answers won't solve these prolems, because we're not clones.
    marie, i totally understand and agree with where you're coming from. speaking as the devil's advocate and to present a different perspective...once upon a time, women were not encouraged to speak their minds for it wasn't lady like. these repressed feelings manifested themselves into facetious, catty and indirect (passive/aggressive) behaviors. we were conditioned and brainwashed that a lady that speaks her mind is nothing but a *****. now today, our views are much more progressive and realistic. many women (such as myself) feel empowered when i'm called a *****. just for the fact that women are still called that but when men assert themselves, they're just being 'men'....well obviously we can see the double standard. in the meantime, there are (too) many residual women still unable or uncomfortable saying what they mean and meaning what they say, so it comes across as cattiness. but there are so many MORE women, such as yourself and other posters, that are secure in themselves and will call a spade a spade and that's to be embraced. my point is until all people can communicate with vindiction and self-assurance, these stereotypes and deep-rooted behaviors will remain. so definitely, continue to speak for yourself and only yourself, but in the meantime, we have to recognize that we're not going to change human nature, however conditioned. we just have to acknowledge the reality of the big picture.
  5. by   nursemike
    Quote from earle58
    marie, i totally understand and agree with where you're coming from. speaking as the devil's advocate and to present a different perspective...once upon a time, women were not encouraged to speak their minds for it wasn't lady like. these repressed feelings manifested themselves into facetious, catty and indirect (passive/aggressive) behaviors. we were conditioned and brainwashed that a lady that speaks her mind is nothing but a *****. now today, our views are much more progressive and realistic. many women (such as myself) feel empowered when i'm called a *****. just for the fact that women are still called that but when men assert themselves, they're just being 'men'....well obviously we can see the double standard. in the meantime, there are (too) many residual women still unable or uncomfortable saying what they mean and meaning what they say, so it comes across as cattiness. but there are so many MORE women, such as yourself and other posters, that are secure in themselves and will call a spade a spade and that's to be embraced. my point is until all people can communicate with vindiction and self-assurance, these stereotypes and deep-rooted behaviors will remain. so definitely, continue to speak for yourself and only yourself, but in the meantime, we have to recognize that we're not going to change human nature, however conditioned. we just have to acknowledge the reality of the big picture.
    Speaking your mind is great. Being a ***** is not. One of the "male" traits some posters seem to admire is essentially just knowing when saying the wrong thing will get your teeth knocked down your throat (a skill not all men have mastered.) A big part of the problems alluded to in this thread are just a matter of failing to distinguish assertive behavior from aggressive (and/or passive/aggressive) behavior. Discretion isn't just the better part of valor, it's also a good way to get along with others. Not that I mean to read more into your words than you intended--it's just that I can think of a few truly disagreeable people who would probably say the exact same thing.
  6. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from nursemike?
    Speaking your mind is great. Being a ***** is not. One of the "male" traits some posters seem to admire is essentially just knowing when saying the wrong thing will get your teeth knocked down your throat (a skill not all men have mastered.) A big part of the problems alluded to in this thread are just a matter of failing to distinguish assertive behavior from aggressive (and/or passive/aggressive) behavior. Discretion isn't just the better part of valor, it's also a good way to get along with others. Not that I mean to read more into your words than you intended--it's just that I can think of a few truly disagreeable people who would probably say the exact same thing.
    i understand your point. and assertion should not be confused for aggression. but passive/aggressive behavior is a totally different ballgame because it is so ambiguous and indirect. with assertiveness or aggression, a person's intent is clear. speaking from a female perspective however, there are still too many women that are merely asserting themselves but still are labeled as b**ches- that is what i'm referring to. i do not like aggression in anyway shape or form but i still maintain that if a woman is direct, she is still labeled untowardly. but in my book, that's absolutely ok. if someone feels threatened by someone unafraid to speak their mind (and i don't mean aggressively), then that's their problem, period. i would much rather (like always and 100%) have some be assertive then this passive/aggressive stuff....i just can't handle that.
  7. by   Stitchie
    Quote from LPN2Be2004
    Just because that majority of the posts have label some females as whatever, doesn't mean that the majority rules.

    Your behavior that you choose is you own personal behavior, no matter what you call it.

    Never would i consider my behavior or thought as "female". And that completely works for me.
    Being a woman has been a great adventure for me, personally and professionally. I chose how this female behaves. That is the only thing I'm able to control, and it's taken a long time to learn that. Since I'm not planning to go to the 'other side' any time in my lifetime, being female is all I have to draw on.

    I don't need to be abrasive, judgmental, aggressive or intimidating; I can be my own person, make my own choices, and support other people in their choices. I will fix what needs to be fixed, and if there is someone who is more expert than I, I will ask for help. As far as I'm concerned, that is using assertion to uphold a professional image.

    IMO, not recognizing that feminine strength differs from male strength, behavior, socialization does a disservice to both sexes.

    We're different, and I believe those differences should be celebrated, not cause for dissention.

    We bring differences to the table, that's for sure, but that's what teamwork is all about. I work with men in the ED every shift and they are who they are. I enjoy that; they bring different insight into the profession.
  8. by   Furball
    I dunno....I've witnessed some male nurses endure the same crap that female nurses do. It's crappy all over! Edited to add: To the peron who will never vote for a female presidential candidate...it must be boring to live life so closed minded.
    Last edit by Furball on May 12, '04
  9. by   Ned the Red
    I'll strike out in a different direction with this thread. And, this idea just now came to me so, it isn't fully formed and I'm not sure even I understand what I want to say. But, bear with me.... again, as one who's not yet in nursing.

    Working in the field is high stress for everyone. And you need to work well as a team. Your team can begin to develope an "us vs them" mentality and sometimes one of the people on the team becomes "them" because of the stress. In the "heat of battle" it's difficult to be introspective and see how your actions might impact others and how the dynamic of the group can get off base.

    And, is it possible that a group that's all women (or all men for that matter) might react less well to the stress than would a mixed group?

    I know I'm rambling but I guess what I'm getting at is that it isn't a men vs women thing as much as it is a question of needing a group that has varied backgrounds, perspectives, etc.

    Hope someone out there can find a kernal of truth in all that!
  10. by   bbear
    Quote from Stitchie

    IMO, not recognizing that feminine strength differs from male strength, behavior, socialization does a disservice to both sexes.

    We're different, and I believe those differences should be celebrated, not cause for dissention.
    Bravo, Stitchie! I truly wish there were far more people who thought that way. Personally, I never quite understood how burning a bra and then donning a jock strap was any kind of victory.

    Here's a few tidbits of insight about us men for you ladies:

    Basically, we're rather simple creatures with very simple needs. Not altogether that different from an amoeba, actually. Feed us, flatter us, tolerate our flatus, and we tend to remain fairly content.

    But you're confusing us. We want to please you but we've lost track of what it is you want from us. You want us to be strong, but then we risk being labeled insensitive. So we try to be more sensitive, but then we are told we're being wimps. Don't forget, we have a short attention span and we give up easily. LOL

    In all seriousness, I do wish women would embrace their delightfully exquisite charactersitics rather than attempting to suppress them. It is those very traits, after all, that make them who they are. I am truly envious of so many of those characteristics (although I'll pass on menstruation).

    And didn't we already have a female President? I cannot recall that Hillary blew up any foreign lands in a fit of cattiness.
  11. by   Energizer Bunny
    Blame it on hormones! LOLOLOLOLOL!
  12. by   Farkinott
    Quote from earle58
    i understand your point. and assertion should not be confused for aggression. but passive/aggressive behavior is a totally different ballgame because it is so ambiguous and indirect. with assertiveness or aggression, a person's intent is clear. speaking from a female perspective however, there are still too many women that are merely asserting themselves but still are labeled as b**ches- that is what i'm referring to. i do not like aggression in anyway shape or form but i still maintain that if a woman is direct, she is still labeled untowardly. but in my book, that's absolutely ok. if someone feels threatened by someone unafraid to speak their mind (and i don't mean aggressively), then that's their problem, period. i would much rather (like always and 100%) have some be assertive then this passive/aggressive stuff....i just can't handle that.
    earl58 i agree with you but I don't agree with being apologistic, to speak your mind. I would love it that ould say your piece without wondering if you will be slagged off for being a bloke!
  13. by   Farkinott
    Quote from Ned the Red
    I'll strike out in a different direction with this thread. And, this idea just now came to me so, it isn't fully formed and I'm not sure even I understand what I want to say. But, bear with me.... again, as one who's not yet in nursing.

    Working in the field is high stress for everyone. And you need to work well as a team. Your team can begin to develope an "us vs them" mentality and sometimes one of the people on the team becomes "them" because of the stress. In the "heat of battle" it's difficult to be introspective and see how your actions might impact others and how the dynamic of the group can get off base.

    And, is it possible that a group that's all women (or all men for that matter) might react less well to the stress than would a mixed group?

    I know I'm rambling but I guess what I'm getting at is that it isn't a men vs women thing as much as it is a question of needing a group that has varied backgrounds, perspectives, etc.

    Hope someone out there can find a kernal of truth in all that!


    Good post, thanks

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