Why are preceptors negative towards nurses they are teaching?

Nurses Relations Nursing Q/A

Updated:  

I've been a nurse for about 4 years now but this is my first real floor nursing job. I am 4 weeks into precepting on a MedSurg floor and I'm just wondering...

Why is it that preceptors generally tend to be negative towards nurses they are teaching?

My preceptor has tried to throw me to the wolves since day 1. Every time I've asked her for help or tried to explain that I was in over my head she just tells me that I need to feel this stress and doesn't help me at all.

This overall experience has been miserable but I have been trying to be a trooper and stick it out.

I had my first mini review with my manager today that overall went well she said she definitely saw me progressing and said I was doing pretty good. She said she was going to switch my preceptor for my last couple of weeks so that I can learn some different techniques ... and, get a different point of view.

I think that's a great idea even if I thought my preceptor was wonderful it's always good to have more than one perspective.

At the end of a very very long shift after 3 straight days my preceptor tells me that I'm going to work with somebody else next week. She proceeds to tell me that it's because there are certain things that I'm just not picking up from her and that maybe I will be able to pick it up from the other person.

A nice way of saying I wasn't doing well and that it was somehow my fault.

I'm just wondering why is it that nurses tend to eat their young?

Why can't they just be a little bit more patient and understanding that things take time and that I'm not going to be at 100% so early in the game. Why can't they stop for a second and put themselves back in the shoes of being brand-new on a MedSurg floor when it's very busy and there's 10 million things going on and you feel a little overwhelmed??

63 Answers

MatrixRn

448 Posts

Specializes in Management, Med/Surg, Clinical Trainer.

To be real, not everyone can be a trainer. Sadly, some people are picked to precept because they happen to be the nurse who has been on the floor the longest, or the nurse accepted the role to get a break from working or maybe everyone else said no, and it was like tag you are it. This is not the best environment to bring in a new person.

This leads me to my second point, when a person is picked for the wrong reason, well they are just not going to be up to snuff. One of the big things that I see in your writings is that this nurse was not horrible, she just seemed passive-aggressive. This is not unusual on the floors. The person feels put out or dumped upon but will not say no, because they do not want to look bad, they may want a good mark on their eval or they want to please the manager. However, once in the role they may not understand the dynamics of teaching, get frustrated and act out.

That said, you as a student in this environment own some of this relationship as well. If you and she are not jelling it is incumbent upon both of you, not just her, to make it work so you get trained. If your needs are not getting met, it is okay to say that you need more support. However, if you stay to chart and she leaves for the day...that is not a sticking point. The patients had been transferred off to the next nurse and the only thing left was charting, so her job was done. If you did the care for that day she cannot chart for you.

Does management know this happens? Yes. This is why she told you that you are getting a different precept for a different point of view. And frankly, having only one preceptor is not a good thing. Another nurse will have other things to offer...that yes...this first one could not give you. Is it because you were not picking it up or is it her inability to teach it?? Who cares....the important thing is that the manager recognizes that there is other training that you need and she is willing to give it.

Overall, I would say maybe we need to find a better term to describe this behavior than to say 'eat their young.'

dudette10, MSN, RN

3,530 Posts

Specializes in Med/Surg, Academics.

Could you you be projecting your lack of confidence with this new job and position onto her?

I had preceptors that pushed me, and my first year was tough. I really didn't like it much, but looking back, I now appreciate it. I would have never said that back then.

Just a warning, people around here HATE the phrase "nurses eat their young." It doesn't bother me, but I can understand why others abhor it.

SmilingBluEyes

20,964 Posts

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

Nurses who eat other nurses, young, old----, they don't discriminate. Because when someone is a negative person they just do it to make themselves feel better. There is plenty of "old" nurse eating going on too. A lot of good, older and experienced nurses are being forced out of jobs because "they cost too much" (read: they make too much money and have topped out on their wage increases). Also, older nurses tend not to take crap from Administration.

It's not just a "young eating" thing.

SmilingBluEyes

20,964 Posts

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

From what I read, you are NOT being "eaten" by your preceptor. She is giving you a chance to work with someone else in hopes you have better luck grasping the concepts of your job or you may have a better relationship with that person. If you ask me, it's a great opportunity especially given you feel she is mean anyhow. Some personalities just don't mesh well for many reasons. Look at it as an opportunity rather than just jumping to the conclusion you are being "eaten".

You should be grateful because in some places, just on the preceptor's word, the new hire can be let go during their probationary period for "being a poor fit" for the unit. I have seen that happen on several occasions. That is most certainly not the case with you. Try looking at it from a more positive perspective. Placing yourself in the victim role will not serve you well.

I have wondered the same, OP. It seems to me that it is 'easier' to just be patient and tolerant of 'newbie-ness', that it takes a lot more time than the span of a preceptorship to determine what a nurse is made of.

Nursing is a tremendously difficult job. I think this is the 'beginning' or the cause of nurses being deliberately unkind to their new coworkers. And there are some nurses who, for reasons I don't personally understand, give themselves permission to victimize new nurses (or just new employees) to this bizarre 'new nurse hazing' bullcrap. I've seen it happen to both new nurses and old battle axes that are new on the job.

Even bringing up the subject here on this forum is likely to get you MORE harassment and snide comments, along with the more appropriately supportive comments.

I've had a couple of experiences similar to yours, early on in my career, and they have stuck with me and for what it's worth, this subject is important to me and many other nurses, in about the same proportion to those nurses who see your OP as an opportunity to sink the knife in a little deeper and give it a twist.

I worked with a brand new BSN grad a few years ago that was working on a 'final paper' right before she graduated, that took on the subject of 'lateral violence among nurses'. We never had a lot of time to talk, but in a few short conversations shoved into me passing report to her, she mentioned that nurses, as a group and 'culture', see themselves as oppressed. And if you look at the group behavior of other oppressed groups, you'll find a lot of the same 'eating their young' type behaviors, the same kind of petty competition among folks who would do better to be supportive of each other.

You take a group of doctors, for instance, and they have each other's backs regardless. Like a brotherhood. A few nurses, on the other hand, seem hardly able to contain themselves for throwing fellow nurses under the bus. It is a sociological thing, explainable by social psychology, which I don't know much about.

That said, there's no 'excuse' to be made about why nurses do this to each other, but it will help YOU to understand what the possible reasons are. It helps YOU to understand this so you can see it as not so personal, that you are just in that particular 'new nurse' role that is still, unfortunately quite vulnerable. For some time now, nursing leadership has been attempting to understand and address this issue, and I do think it's gotten better, in general, in that more and more managers/leaders are aware of the issue, have received training on it and have human resource strategies to deal with it when it happens.

I've been a new nurse on units where I was welcomed and endlessly supported, with maybe one or two fellow nurses who had a chip on their shoulder. And I've been on units where nearly every nurse had something rammed up there, the whole unit culture was sick with nurses competing against one another instead of paying attention to the patients. The unit culture is dependent upon the manager and his/her capability to lead.

My last job in the hospital was with a manager who was a kind and decent person -- but not a good leader. She was terrified of conflict, and so we ended up practically SUPPORTING the behavior of a troublesome few. We lost excellent nurses who just refused to put up with it. I even left eventually, just so sick of it -- and it was only two or three nurses. Everyone else was WONDERFUL, but over time, when the manager can't or won't deal with the issues, you'll end up with a staff where the better behaved nurses have quit and moved on, and the less well behaved nurses predominate :(

Speaking up against bullying or just immature interpersonal behavior, as a nurse, is likely to get you a screenful of quips and snarks as well as genuine support. Take what helps you and ignore the rest. As to the naysayers, I suggest if the shoe fits . . .

Good luck with your new preceptor. I have a feeling things are going to improve for you. Unfortunately, being a new(er) nurse puts hard demands on our skill sets as nurses AND our skill sets to cope with difficult people. Since there will always be difficult people, learning how to cope with them is PRICELESS as a nurse. You'll have patients and family members who try your patience and challenge you to judge the whole human race :D but you still have to take care of them, right? The same goes for difficult-to-get-along-with nurse coworkers -- you still have to work with them. It's very possible to do so. If times goes by and it still sucks, time to look for another job. Most of the time, however, experience will teach you how to de-sensitize yourself when necessary.

Farawyn

12,646 Posts

I have wondered the same, OP. It seems to me that it is 'easier' to just be patient and tolerant of 'newbie-ness', that it takes a lot more time than the span of a preceptorship to determine what a nurse is made of.

Nursing is a tremendously difficult job. I think this is the 'beginning' or the cause of nurses being deliberately unkind to their new coworkers. And there are some nurses who, for reasons I don't personally understand, give themselves permission to victimize new nurses (or just new employees) to this bizarre 'new nurse hazing' bullcrap. I've seen it happen to both new nurses and old battle axes that are new on the job.

Even bringing up the subject here on this forum is likely to get you MORE harassment and snide comments, along with the more appropriately supportive comments.

I've had a couple of experiences similar to yours, early on in my career, and they have stuck with me and for what it's worth, this subject is important to me and many other nurses, in about the same proportion to those nurses who see your OP as an opportunity to sink the knife in a little deeper and give it a twist.

I worked with a brand new BSN grad a few years ago that was working on a 'final paper' right before she graduated, that took on the subject of 'lateral violence among nurses'. We never had a lot of time to talk, but in a few short conversations shoved into me passing report to her, she mentioned that nurses, as a group and 'culture', see themselves as oppressed. And if you look at the group behavior of other oppressed groups, you'll find a lot of the same 'eating their young' type behaviors, the same kind of petty competition among folks who would do better to be supportive of each other.

You take a group of doctors, for instance, and they have each other's backs regardless. Like a brotherhood. A few nurses, on the other hand, seem hardly able to contain themselves for throwing fellow nurses under the bus. It is a sociological thing, explainable by social psychology, which I don't know much about.

That said, there's no 'excuse' to be made about why nurses do this to each other, but it will help YOU to understand what the possible reasons are. It helps YOU to understand this so you can see it as not so personal, that you are just in that particular 'new nurse' role that is still, unfortunately quite vulnerable. For some time now, nursing leadership has been attempting to understand and address this issue, and I do think it's gotten better, in general, in that more and more managers/leaders are aware of the issue, have received training on it and have human resource strategies to deal with it when it happens.

I've been a new nurse on units where I was welcomed and endlessly supported, with maybe one or two fellow nurses who had a chip on their shoulder. And I've been on units where nearly every nurse had something rammed up there, the whole unit culture was sick with nurses competing against one another instead of paying attention to the patients. The unit culture is dependent upon the manager and his/her capability to lead.

My last job in the hospital was with a manager who was a kind and decent person -- but not a good leader. She was terrified of conflict, and so we ended up practically SUPPORTING the behavior of a troublesome few. We lost excellent nurses who just refused to put up with it. I even left eventually, just so sick of it -- and it was only two or three nurses. Everyone else was WONDERFUL, but over time, when the manager can't or won't deal with the issues, you'll end up with a staff where the better behaved nurses have quit and moved on, and the less well behaved nurses predominate :(

Speaking up against bullying or just immature interpersonal behavior, as a nurse, is likely to get you a screenful of quips and snarks as well as genuine support. Take what helps you and ignore the rest. As to the naysayers, I suggest if the shoe fits . . .

Good luck with your new preceptor. I have a feeling things are going to improve for you. Unfortunately, being a new(er) nurse puts hard demands on our skill sets as nurses AND our skill sets to cope with difficult people. Since there will always be difficult people, learning how to cope with them is PRICELESS as a nurse. You'll have patients and family members who try your patience and challenge you to judge the whole human race :D but you still have to take care of them, right? The same goes for difficult-to-get-along-with nurse coworkers -- you still have to work with them. It's very possible to do so. If times goes by and it still sucks, time to look for another job. Most of the time, however, experience will teach you how to de-sensitize yourself when necessary.

Yea, I did that paper as well. Meissner. (?)

My problem with these comments is the generalizations most posters make. Not SOME nurses are bullies, but just NETY. That includes me. And while I am snarky and having fun here, I can assure you that I do not do that to new nurses. I have precepted many nurses, still all "work friends" to this day.

If you have a bad unit or a bad preceptor, maybe it's just that. Or maybe you had expectations. I did. Nursing school is nothing like working a floor. In any case, NETY does not mean "some", it means "all", and that's what I take exception to.

I also don't like that NETY is usually the new nurse's FIRST post on AN. Which screams to me just a lack of common sense, or troll/sock puppet to stir the pot. If that's the case, pass me the spoon.

SmilingBluEyes

20,964 Posts

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

First, I want to say good on you, at least listening to what is said here and trying to take the advice in the spirit intended. I think you are going to go far with just a bit of introspection and a good attitude.

Honestly, I just truly don't see this as a case of nurses eating their young. And I wish that phrase would die a fast death. It's misleading, putting the older, experienced nurses in the worst light from the get-go. For every mean, crusty old nurse eating her young, is another new nurse, entering the unit with a sense of entitlement a mile long and an attitude to match.

It's just the nature of the business, some people are more easy to work with than others. Try to take more things in stride, develop a good sense of humor------learn to laugh at yourself more and quit taking it all so deadly seriously. I had a hard time my first year in OB in a unit where all the nurses were friends, had been there a long time and I was seen as an interloper. I did not let it stop me. Kept the complaints to myself, kept head high, good attitude and did everything I could to lighten their load and worked very hard. When I made a mistake (minor ones), I would laugh it off and say a witty thing that was just a bit self-deprecating without being self-abusive. I laughed at stress, too. Most of all, I became an asset to that unit, being helpful in every way possible.

Eventually, it all worked. I was accepted and treated well.

Being a victim would not have changed my situation but made it worse.

You can't control others' behaviors, but you CAN control YOUR attitude towards them and what you choose to do next, and possibly influence things in a positive way for everyone.

Mavrick, BSN, RN

1,578 Posts

Specializes in 15 years in ICU, 22 years in PACU.

I can see why your original post raised some hackles. First, you stated then repeated a phrase that has no meaning other than to insult. You applied it to nurses in general not just an experience you have had with one preceptor. Continuing the story of your three weeks of orientation just sounds like a slight personality clash where your preceptor admitted she could not teach you things she feels you need to know, apparently agreeing with your manager that a different (not better) preceptor would be able to teach you better. I don't believe she expects you to be 100%, maybe that is pressure you are putting on yourself and blaming her.

Knowing how stressful floor nursing is, I can't imagine the additional stress your preceptor is under having just survived a management swoop of house cleaning out the old nurses. She may not have that much experience herself. And who knows how you were presented to her. A nurse with 4 years experience is vastly different from a nurse who has had her license 4 years. Your previous experience puts you on par with a new grad without the protective coating.

Not everyone on this forum is going to research your profile or even read all the back pedaling you have done in your subsequent posts before they comment, so prepare yourself for some additional pushback. I am really surprised at your being a member since Sept 2014 and not being familiar with the NETY topic. It's an overused term with baggage that brings the venom out.

Hopefully your new preceptor will mesh with your goals of being a hospital based nurse and get you up to speed with as little damage as possible. You are the future of nursing and will be teaching the newer nurses sooner than you expect.

Sorry if this sounds like I'm bashing someone who has already taken a hit. You have more than responded to your original post in a positive way that shows insight. I think you're gonna make it!!

Best to you.

SmilingBluEyes

20,964 Posts

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

Precepting new nurses is very hard. A preceptor is responsible for his or her own workload, and more importantly, the patients' wellbeing, while ensuring the novice nurse has the best possible learning experience.

Preceptors are not always volunteers; many are drafted into it, just by virtue of being experienced and knowledgeable and actually do resent that extra work. That is unfortunate and unfair to both novice and preceptor. A novice would go a long way, understanding the "other side" a bit and really developing an attitude of being helpful, eager to learn and hard-working and careful about expressing negative thoughts about the unit or the nurses in it.

First impressions are huge on both sides. If the preceptor is resentful, and lets it show, the novice is understandably and inevitably put-off and won't like that person. If the novice comes in with an attitude of entitlement and arrogance (and yes this happens), the preceptor automatically feels this signals trouble and it sets a bad tone for him or her. And word spreads quickly that this new nurse is trouble, and not a good fit for the unit. Like it or not, you have to acclimate to the unit culture if you are to get along and continue working there. If it's a toxic unit, you alone won't change it, and it's best in such situations to move on.

A bit of openness and understanding on both sides go a long way. And even if a novice is straight out of school, trying to learn the culture of the unit, he or she IS an adult and responsible, at least in large part, for his or her learning and development.

If a preceptor is unduly harsh or difficult, it's sometimes best to try to get a new one, speaking to the manager or nurse educator. I would choose the words wisely, not being negative, but rather, saying the two of you are not a good fit.

Being positive can only help any novice nurse's cause.

dudette10, MSN, RN

3,530 Posts

Specializes in Med/Surg, Academics.

Thanks for taking everything here in, retracting your NETY thing (multiple times), and really reflecting on the source of your stress.

I had a PATIENT the other day make comments to the charge nurse that I was "judging" her. When the charge nurse talked to me, she said the patient could not come up with anything specific that I said that was judgmental, but the patient did say that I took my job too seriously, didn't joke around, and wouldn't answer questions about my family. SERIOUSLY, those were the patient's words! The patient went on to say that she felt I was judging her on her length of stay, her resistance to ambulation, etc. (My teaching to her involved self-care, ambulation, getting back to baseline, and the risk of infection the longer someone stays in the hospital.) In other words, she was projecting her anxiety on to me and interpreting my behavior in the exact same way that she felt about herself.

As a new grad, I did the exact same thing as you did earlier on in this thread. I "grew up" in an environment of very experienced nurses that kept pushing and pushing and pushing. I would come home and complain how they just didn't understand, they were pushing me too hard, how I didn't get the support I needed. I started appreciating it when I went to a new job a little over a year later (left my old job due to scheduling, not the environment), and I had a week of orientation before they let me loose with, "You're good. No need for more orientation." That pushing I received helped me advance faster.

I'm not saying that you don't need another preceptor; what I am saying is that nursing in a new environment/specialty requires being challenged to develop in the new position. In my current position, I see way too many new grads being precepted by 1-yearish staff nurses, and when I follow the NGs, I see their gaps in knowledge, assessment, and priorities. They were praised, hand-holded, and not corrected often enough. One of the new-ish preceptors came up to ask me how her NG (now off orientation) was doing when I followed the him for three days straight. I could see in her eyes the concern and lack of confidence in the NG, which she obviously didn't address while the NG was being precepted. Scary.

Libby1987

3,726 Posts

I haven't read most of the posts but just want to shout, NOT ALL NEW NURSES ARE CREATED EQUAL.

I'm just going to come out and state the obvious that some are quicker, sharper, more intuitive and tougher, the ones that came before might have set the bar, but preceptors are expected to roll them all out in the same time frame. You bet I keep my admin updated re progress or lack thereof. We want our new hires to be successful and I work for some very humane managers but it's also a business and only so many resources are available to bring someone up to speed, and it's the admin's call.

NOADLS

832 Posts

Lot of things irk me about new grads that come into this with a sense of entitlement so high.

1) Can't handle your patient load while the rest of your colleagues can?

2) Making repetitive medication errors?

3) "I don't want to work weekends and nights. I'll take holidays off as well."

Chances are it isn't the job that's the problem.

Are we "eating the young?" Or are we weeding out the incompetence?

My first two points are straightforward. New grads come into this and they either can't adapt to a fast paced environment or make repetitive stupid medication errors. If you fall into this category and get fired, you likely let yourself get fired despite all the warning signs that you should have left a long time ago.

My last point... if you aren't willing to work when your employer needs you, why should they spend the time and effort to hire you? Please tell me about your vast wealth of experience which should entitle you to a schedule highly sought after in this profession.

+ Add a Comment