I've been a nurse for about 4 years now but this is my first real floor nursing job. I am 4 weeks into precepting on a MedSurg floor and I'm just wondering...
Why is it that preceptors generally tend to be negative towards nurses they are teaching?
My preceptor has tried to throw me to the wolves since day 1. Every time I've asked her for help or tried to explain that I was in over my head she just tells me that I need to feel this stress and doesn't help me at all.
This overall experience has been miserable but I have been trying to be a trooper and stick it out.
I had my first mini review with my manager today that overall went well she said she definitely saw me progressing and said I was doing pretty good. She said she was going to switch my preceptor for my last couple of weeks so that I can learn some different techniques ... and, get a different point of view.
I think that's a great idea even if I thought my preceptor was wonderful it's always good to have more than one perspective.
At the end of a very very long shift after 3 straight days my preceptor tells me that I'm going to work with somebody else next week. She proceeds to tell me that it's because there are certain things that I'm just not picking up from her and that maybe I will be able to pick it up from the other person.
A nice way of saying I wasn't doing well and that it was somehow my fault.
I'm just wondering why is it that nurses tend to eat their young?
Why can't they just be a little bit more patient and understanding that things take time and that I'm not going to be at 100% so early in the game. Why can't they stop for a second and put themselves back in the shoes of being brand-new on a MedSurg floor when it's very busy and there's 10 million things going on and you feel a little overwhelmed??
I can see what some of the others are saying, but I also do sympathize with you.
In agreement with them, yes, it is great that your preceptor recognizes her teaching style and your learning style do not mix. She is also right when she says you need to feel the stress of hospital nursing yourself. By doing, you learn.
However, and your post does not really provide specific examples so this is a big assumption, it is her responsibility as the role of preceptor to help you. If she is truly "throwing you to the wolves" and making you do everything alone/ truly denying you help when you have a question, she is NOT fulfilling her role, and you absolutely should be given a new preceptor. Not only is that blatantly ignoring her position, but it's unsafe if you really don't know. That should also be brought up to your manager. That is an extreme, and could be far from the true reality, but just what it sounds like from your post. Like I said, without specific examples of/seeing myself what she is not helping with and how she is "throwing you to the wolves", it's hard to say.
Also, no you are not a new grad, but if you haven't been working in the hospital before, you might as well be. Even someone who just finished clinicals in a hospital would be more familiar with the setting than you, having been away 4 years at least. You can have all the outpatient(assuming you were in an outpatient setting) experience in the world, and it's different in the hospital. New problems and types of patients you'll see, new procedures, new pace, new place and charting system, and new way of thinking altogether. You should have some nursing judgement there, but otherwise, I feel like it's completely acceptable to need help, and as a preceptor, I would expect you to need it. Hell, I had a nurse who had been a hospital RN for 20 years and I had to hold her hand for weeks. Odd and not what we expected, but I did it because that is the role of preceptor.
I'm sorry you've had the experience you had so far, and I really hope your next preceptor is a better fit. Someone who doesn't baby you and expects/pushes you to do things and learn, but that has no problem being the GUIDE a preceptor should be.
I want to thank Nursy1,Rn for asking this question I am amazed at all the answers and opinions I am a CNA waiting to enter a NURSING program and all of this is like a giant class room lecture and has opened my eyes to various ways of seeing and thinking in regards to this type of nursing experience my first reaction to some answers was that these people have no heart and no sympathy then I realized that the comments were from the heart and is the Nurse version of tough love
I think nurses eat their young because of burnout. IMO they need to take a vacation or maybe change careers or maybe change the work environment. I also think it starts in nursing school. I have seen it!!! I had to check a lady for trying to bully me and another classmate and she left me alone. No one deserves to feel like they do not belong or feel uncomfortable when all you are trying to do is LEARN. Sometimes I wonder what will I do when nurses try to bully me?? I have seen it so many times and it is really sad!! So people can act like it do not exist all they want until they meet the right one to bully. I pray that everything worked out for you. take care.
You start off by saying that you've been a nurse for four years. You're not a new grad, by any stretch of the imagination. How exactly is your preceptor "throwing you to the wolves"? From your description, it sounds like the worst you are saying of your preceptor is that s/he is not providing as much hand-holding as you would like, and it sounds like your unit manager is supportive and encouraging. How does this qualify as nurses "eating their young"?
I can agree that her personality does not mesh with mine, I believe in some ways we are too similar. I did not go into specifics because it is irrevant, I am getting a new preceptor. But there have been a several things that have happened that were way beyond personalities not meshing and downright wrong, situations like her leaving me there alone to finish charting on my 2nd or 3rd, after she made me take the whole team of patients solo (which I tried several times to tell her it was too much too fast and I couldn't keep my head above water) and she went home. In my perspective that is irresponsible, she is too responsible for these patients, she should be keeping an eye on what I'm doing. I don't feel the need to go into each and every situation, and I dont think everything is awful about her, but I do think that if she wants to precept (which they have to want to do, and they get paid an extra $3/hr to do) then you should have some patience. Now I understand pushing a nurse a little harder throughout the process, but it shouldn't be like that from day 1.
i see where it might sound like she was acknowledging her own issues with teaching, but it was how she said it, it very much came off like her saying that I wasn't learning enough (at my fault).
I honestly don't beleive I am pushing my insecurities off on her, I take accountability for my insecurities... I think in some ways I have had to or I wouldn't have kept my sanity throughout this process. I have had to tell myself several times that it's okay that I am behind on my charting, I know I need to get faster, but I'm trying my best and that will come with time.
I dont hate her, I just don't honestly think she's the best person to be teaching. I really was just looking for feedback into reasons that so many nurses (not all) are so impatient and hard on new nurses. It does happen a lot, we have all seen it, just wondering why??
I in in no way meant to offend anyone with that term and I will do my best to not use it again not to offend anyone.
... because the line ups in the food court/cafeteria are very, very long?
Wow, I hadn't thought of that, could be on to something... I mean, if your lucky enough to get time to get near the food in the cafeteria then you have to wait a zillion years for a soggy sandwich... and you don't really get a break because families see you and take the opportunity to ask questions... I should just bring in a snack so everybody isn't starving...
You start off by saying that you've been a nurse for four years. You're not a new grad, by any stretch of the imagination. How exactly is your preceptor "throwing you to the wolves"? From your description, it sounds like the worst you are saying of your preceptor is that s/he is not providing as much hand-holding as you would like, and it sounds like your unit manager is supportive and encouraging. How does this qualify as nurses "eating their young"?
No, I am not a new grad, I however am new to the hospital/medsurg setting. I am not trying to make people mad, and I am not bashing my preceptor, I honestly was looking for feedback as to why so many preceptors are so hard on new employees. I am sorry if my post offended you, and I do not expect a big pity party, I was looking for true feedback.
Nurses who eat other nurses, young, old----, they don't discriminate. Because when someone is an A-whole they just do it to make themselves feel better. There is plenty of "old" nurse eating going on too. A lot of good, older and experienced nurses are being forced out of jobs because "they cost too much" (read: they make too much money and have topped out on their wage increases). Also, older nurses tend not to take crap from Administration.
It's not just a "young eating" thing.
One more thing: this is a much-discussed subject, so do yourself a favor and use the search feature. You will find a lot of interesting discussion, varying from the old complaint of NETY and why some don't even believe in the phenomenon.
I have seen this happening a lot recently with the "older" nurses and it is just sad and ridiculous. People with a vast amount of experience should be valued, and instead it ends up being about the all mighty dollar. I heard that they recently did that where I am now working, they "cleaned house" of the "old" nurses who wouldn't conform with the "vision" of the company...
PS: from what I read, you are NOT being "eaten" by your preceptor. She is giving you a chance to work with someone else in hopes you have better luck grasping the concepts of your job or you may have a better relationship with that person. If you ask me, it's a great opportunity especially given you feel she is mean anyhow. Some personalities just don't mesh well for many reasons. Look at it as an opportunity rather than just jumping to the conclusion you are being "eaten".
You should be grateful because in some places, just on the preceptor's word, the new hire can be let go during their probationary period for "being a poor fit" for the unit. I have seen that happen on several occasions. That is most certainly not the case with you. Try looking at it from a more positive perspective. Placing yourself in the victim role will not serve you well.
I am definitely looking at this situation as a positive, I truly believe that this is a good idea for orientation anyway, getting other peoples views and perspectives is invaluable. Everybody had different techniques and ways of doing things and if you get to learn from several people it gives you the opportunity to see several different ways of doing things and figuring out which one works for you. I have done my best to keep a good relationship with my preceptor throughout this whole process, I may not like her teaching style, but I like her as a person and want to have a good relationship with her, and all my new co-workers.
I am well aware that there are places that will can you if the preceptor and the new don't mesh, and I am very thankful that I am not in a situation like that. I actually was offered 3 different positions and my deciding factor was the manager on this unit, she seemed really friendly, positive, and laid back and we just seemed to click during the interview. My impression of her was spot on, she is a wonderful manager and I am thankful that I chose this position.
I am not necessarily jumping to a conclusion I am being eaten, I honestly just wanted honest feedback as to why this seems to happen in this profession.
I have wondered the same, OP. It seems to me that it is 'easier' to just be patient and tolerant of 'newbie-ness', that it takes a lot more time than the span of a preceptorship to determine what a nurse is made of.
Nursing is a tremendously difficult job. I think this is the 'beginning' or the cause of nurses being deliberately unkind to their new coworkers. And there are some nurses who, for reasons I don't personally understand, give themselves permission to victimize new nurses (or just new employees) to this bizarre 'new nurse hazing' bullcrap. I've seen it happen to both new nurses and old battle axes that are new on the job.
Even bringing up the subject here on this forum is likely to get you MORE harassment and snide comments, along with the more appropriately supportive comments.
I've had a couple of experiences similar to yours, early on in my career, and they have stuck with me and for what it's worth, this subject is important to me and many other nurses, in about the same proportion to those nurses who see your OP as an opportunity to sink the knife in a little deeper and give it a twist.
I worked with a brand new BSN grad a few years ago that was working on a 'final paper' right before she graduated, that took on the subject of 'lateral violence among nurses'. We never had a lot of time to talk, but in a few short conversations shoved into me passing report to her, she mentioned that nurses, as a group and 'culture', see themselves as oppressed. And if you look at the group behavior of other oppressed groups, you'll find a lot of the same 'eating their young' type behaviors, the same kind of petty competition among folks who would do better to be supportive of each other.
You take a group of doctors, for instance, and they have each other's backs regardless. Like a brotherhood. A few nurses, on the other hand, seem hardly able to contain themselves for throwing fellow nurses under the bus. It is a sociological thing, explainable by social psychology, which I don't know much about.
That said, there's no 'excuse' to be made about why nurses do this to each other, but it will help YOU to understand what the possible reasons are. It helps YOU to understand this so you can see it as not so personal, that you are just in that particular 'new nurse' role that is still, unfortunately quite vulnerable. For some time now, nursing leadership has been attempting to understand and address this issue, and I do think it's gotten better, in general, in that more and more managers/leaders are aware of the issue, have received training on it and have human resource strategies to deal with it when it happens.
I've been a new nurse on units where I was welcomed and endlessly supported, with maybe one or two fellow nurses who had a chip on their shoulder. And I've been on units where nearly every nurse had something rammed up there, the whole unit culture was sick with nurses competing against one another instead of paying attention to the patients. The unit culture is dependent upon the manager and his/her capability to lead.
My last job in the hospital was with a manager who was a kind and decent person -- but not a good leader. She was terrified of conflict, and so we ended up practically SUPPORTING the behavior of a troublesome few. We lost excellent nurses who just refused to put up with it. I even left eventually, just so sick of it -- and it was only two or three nurses. Everyone else was WONDERFUL, but over time, when the manager can't or won't deal with the issues, you'll end up with a staff where the better behaved nurses have quit and moved on, and the less well behaved nurses predominate
Speaking up against bullying or just immature interpersonal behavior, as a nurse, is likely to get you a screenful of quips and snarks as well as genuine support. Take what helps you and ignore the rest. As to the naysayers, I suggest if the shoe fits . . .
Good luck with your new preceptor. I have a feeling things are going to improve for you. Unfortunately, being a new(er) nurse puts hard demands on our skill sets as nurses AND our skill sets to cope with difficult people. Since there will always be difficult people, learning how to cope with them is PRICELESS as a nurse. You'll have patients and family members who try your patience and challenge you to judge the whole human race but you still have to take care of them, right? The same goes for difficult-to-get-along-with nurse coworkers -- you still have to work with them. It's very possible to do so. If times goes by and it still sucks, time to look for another job. Most of the time, however, experience will teach you how to de-sensitize yourself when necessary.
Thank you so much for your insight. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post and share some of what you have learned about this culture and your own experiences. I did not expect the negative comments, but oh well, as you said, if the shoe fits. I truly was looking for the type of perspective you shared, not a hand holding pity party. I know that it is going to be very hard for the next several months (years??). It will take time for me to learn those key things that nobody can teach you and only come with time: time management, prioritizing, finding the perfect brain sheet, etc. I find your feedback very interesting, I honestly had never thought of it from a social/cultural perspective, but it definitely makes sense. And I know that not every nurse is mean or bad to new nurses. My preceptor isn't mean per se, just a little too high strung and tries to throw too much on too fast, which at times was counterproductive. I have worked in a place where the atmosphere was just tense, nobody got along, bullying was allowed, and the management was ineffective and did nothing. Luckily I got out of there quickly.. I am very glad to say that I am now on a wonderful unit, great management, great employees, good teamwork, no drama (atleast not that I have seen yet). I know it isn't always like that and I do not take it for granted. So luckily for me, it does not suck, as I have said it is not at all that I do not like my preceptor, she is a very sweet, kind person, just a little too high strung and our personalities don't mesh for teaching purposes. we have never gotten into a disagreement, I just didn't personally agree with some of the things that have happened over the last few weeks and how things were handled by her. My manager pointed out during the review that she thinks that we have very similar personalities, and when she said that to me it clicked in my head, here I was thinking that it was personality differences making this so difficult, and it actually is the similarities that seem to be the hurdle.. It just kind of made me smile and opened my eyes to the situation. I had a friend who has worked at this facility for years over last night and she pointed out that you cant teach yourself, she too thought from my description that our personalities were alike. She also mentioned that in her years of being there she has become less and less patient with newbies and it made her stop and think about her own behavior towards new employees and how she will try to be more patient in the future. So atleast there are 2 other people in the world that acknowledge this phenomenon :)
Thank you again for your insight!! It was really helpful!
My problem with these comments is the generalizations most posters make. Not SOME nurses are bullies, but just NETY. That includes me. And while I am snarky and having fun here, I can assure you that I do not do that to new nurses. I have precepted many nurses, still all "work friends" to this day.
If you have a bad unit or a bad preceptor, maybe it's just that. Or maybe you had expectations. I did. Nursing school is nothing like working a floor. In any case, NETY does not mean "some", it means "all", and that's what I take exception to.
I also don't like that NETY is usually the new nurse's FIRST post on AN. Which screams to me just a lack of common sense, or troll/sock puppet to stir the pot. If that's the case, pass me the spoon.
I am sorry if I offended you, I did not mean to generalize to the point that people would take it personally, and I know that not all nurses do this. I am not a new grad, but I am new to the hospital/med-surg floor. I have done other things in my career that were somewhat valuable for my nursing career, but it was not working on the floor. I wanted this job, I love it, I am thankful to finally be here (have been trying forever). I in now way shape or form believe that all nurses do this, I understand your point that it is a generalization that could be perceived as pointing at every nurse who precepts eats their young.... I know that there are a ton of nurses who are wonderful preceptors. This is not my first post on here, I had some deleted because I did not want to compromise my anonymity. I actually posted on here because I wanted true feedback to the phenomenon. I also did not know that it was a buzz word that would cause so much controversy. I do have common sense, so I will in the future try not to generalize you, if you would kindly not generalize me as a new grad with no common sense who had expectations and is troll/sock puppet trying to stir the pot. (Wow, I am going to now have to look up what I have been called because im not sure what a troll/sock puppet is??)
but you still have to take care of them, right? The same goes for difficult-to-get-along-with nurse coworkers -- you still have to work with them. It's very possible to do so. If times goes by and it still sucks, time to look for another job. Most of the time, however, experience will teach you how to de-sensitize yourself when necessary.
littlepeopleRNICU
476 Posts
I can see what some of the others are saying, but I also do sympathize with you.
In agreement with them, yes, it is great that your preceptor recognizes her teaching style and your learning style do not mix. She is also right when she says you need to feel the stress of hospital nursing yourself. By doing, you learn.
However, and your post does not really provide specific examples so this is a big assumption, it is her responsibility as the role of preceptor to help you. If she is truly "throwing you to the wolves" and making you do everything alone/ truly denying you help when you have a question, she is NOT fulfilling her role, and you absolutely should be given a new preceptor. Not only is that blatantly ignoring her position, but it's unsafe if you really don't know. That should also be brought up to your manager. That is an extreme, and could be far from the true reality, but just what it sounds like from your post. Like I said, without specific examples of/seeing myself what she is not helping with and how she is "throwing you to the wolves", it's hard to say.
Also, no you are not a new grad, but if you haven't been working in the hospital before, you might as well be. Even someone who just finished clinicals in a hospital would be more familiar with the setting than you, having been away 4 years at least. You can have all the outpatient(assuming you were in an outpatient setting) experience in the world, and it's different in the hospital. New problems and types of patients you'll see, new procedures, new pace, new place and charting system, and new way of thinking altogether. You should have some nursing judgement there, but otherwise, I feel like it's completely acceptable to need help, and as a preceptor, I would expect you to need it. Hell, I had a nurse who had been a hospital RN for 20 years and I had to hold her hand for weeks. Odd and not what we expected, but I did it because that is the role of preceptor.
I'm sorry you've had the experience you had so far, and I really hope your next preceptor is a better fit. Someone who doesn't baby you and expects/pushes you to do things and learn, but that has no problem being the GUIDE a preceptor should be.