Anti-intellectual & hyper-sensitive. WHY? - page 4

by mclennan

7,664 Unique Views | 65 Comments

I got in trouble at my job yesterday. I was training in a new case manager. After some time observing me make calls and document, she tried it on her own. She's smart, a great nurse and did a good job on her first call. But... Read More


  1. 1
    Quote from NJForte
    Something about this post is off. If you communicated your criticism constructively why did she "run crying" to the supervisor? Are you sure you came off the way you though you came off? Did your disdain for her poor writing abilities come through to her like it's coming through to us?

    I don't know I wasn't there, but this story seems a bit odd.
    I'm guessing the OP was possibly a little more brusque and impatient than she portrayed in her post. Or perhaps she doesn't realize that she comes off as brusque or impatient.
    Nrsasrus likes this.
  2. 1
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    I will see ADNs returning fire when they have been attacked for being uneducated or lacking proper preperation for "professional" nursing.
    And the insistence that we alllllll need a BSN when they have no earthly idea about regions of the US, or the educational makeup of our own individual facilities, etc. They got a BSN, great! I don't really need one right now to be a floor nurse, pass meds and wipe butts (don't they have people passing meds now that have a cute little certificate they got in 6 months or something? But I need a bachelor's degree?) but when I do need one I'll be sure to let all y'all know that you finally won. On the other hand I'll let you know when I'm a floor manager with an ASN, or an expert witness charging $300 per hour. But right now I'm just a low functioning moron with a "community college degree."

    Apologize, slightly off topic.
    PeepnBiscuitsRN likes this.
  3. 2
    Quote from klone
    I'm guessing the OP was possibly a little more brusque and impatient than she portrayed in her post. Or perhaps she doesn't realize that she comes off as brusque or impatient.
    I tend to believe the OP.

    This situation isn't exactly the same, but it is somewhat analogous: An "admission nurse" (someone who goes in to see pt's in the ER who are being admitted, complete their med rec, etc.) went is to do the admission work on a patient. The patient's ER nurse (we'll call her Marcy) was charting on another patient when the admission nurse came out and told Marcy that her pt needed to use the bed pan, but that she (the admission nurse) would do it for her. Marcy said, "oh no, I can handle it." As the admission nurse is walking back toward the room she say "no, don't worry about it...I've got it." She proceeds to put the pt on/take her off the bed pan...no incidents. I looks over and see Marcy quietly crying. I ask here "oh, no, what's wrong?" Marcy says to me "that nurse is so pushy, she's insinuating I can't do my job...she is just a total b***h." Now Marcy didn't run off the manager about it, but this true story illustrates how a simple thing can be taken way out of proportion. The admission nurse is one of the kindest people around. I saw the entire interaction. There is no way the admission nurse was trying to imply anything negative about Marcy and her nursing abilities, and yet it was blown way out of proportion by Marcy.

    Long and short of it, it does not surprise me that this nurse (from the first post) was so offended by something innocent...as in the situation I just described. And, well, she has to learn how to write proper notes as a CM. Sometimes this means somebody have to be the one to disrupt someone's perfect image of themselves. I just think she (the new CM) couldn't handle it and she need to run crying to someone.
    Altra and anotherone like this.
  4. 1
    Quote from redhead_NURSE98!

    And the insistence that we alllllll need a BSN when they have no earthly idea about regions of the US, or the educational makeup of our own individual facilities, etc. They got a BSN, great! I don't really need one right now to be a floor nurse, pass meds and wipe butts (don't they have people passing meds now that have a cute little certificate they got in 6 months or something? But I need a bachelor's degree?) but when I do need one I'll be sure to let all y'all know that you finally won. On the other hand I'll let you know when I'm a floor manager with an ASN, or an expert witness charging $300 per hour. But right now I'm just a low functioning moron with a "community college degree."

    Apologize, slightly off topic.
    My goodness, I do much more as a nurse. I assess my patient, intervene as needed and evaluate both the nursing and medical interventions. That would be in addition to"passing meds and wiping butts". I will omit my next sentence because it was too snarky
    SoldierNurse22 likes this.
  5. 1
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** I was with you until I read this. What suprises me is that I am a frequient AN reader and poster. Pretty much every day I am on AN now that I get it on my phone. I read dozens of posts here every day and I never see what you describe above. I will see ADNs returning fire when they have been attacked for being uneducated or lacking proper preperation for "professional" nursing. Funny how two different people will see things so differently. I was convinced that you were right in the OP and that you were dealing with an oversenstive nurse. Now I am not so sure that your side of the story is the accurate one.
    I think being defensive about one's choices being attacked (or perceived to be attacked) is a human trait that spans all ranges of intellect and achievements in formal education and tiers of the job market. An example of that would be when an anesthesia resident disparages an SRNA. You'll likely see them get their back up just as the LPN/ADN does when it happens here.

    I did want to say that mclennan's approach to the new nurse was just about perfect. Usually when these kinds of job conflicts happen it's easy to see how both can be at fault for things going south. Not this time, though. She might be a great nurse and a quick learner, but the chip on the shoulder and over-investment in ego-strokes might not make that matter in the long run.
    Last edit by nursel56 on Feb 27, '13 : Reason: fixed spelling
    leslie :-D likes this.
  6. 5
    Chee, thanks for all the hearty and passionate discussion and replies!

    I really, really wish I could say I was too brusque and critical of this new CM, because then this would be easy. I'd just admit it, feel like a horse's butt, and apologize - and this would be solved.

    The whole reason I posted is precisely because I *absolutely, positively and totally* made a CONCERTED effort to be kind and tactful with this nurse in coaching her documentation. I could sense she was going to bristle at any kind of feedback......so I was super lighthearted. I tried to crack jokes and make it about company policy and nitpicky managers & doctors and NOT about her awful writing.

    Those of you in doubt, I am positive you'd be just as appalled as I was. Seriously, it looked like this: "pt s/p RTKA dc home 2/18 w/WV & ivabx niece dpoa polst signed rx recon completed w 0 chgs hh to do WC 2qwk fu w pcp 1wk." Our company has an entire post-discharge questionnaire that requires a narrative, SOAP, and a lot of specifics, and abbreviations are verboten. Sure, many of us can read that and know what it means, but Case Management charting is different. Hospice admission secretaries, social workers, families, "lay people" outside the immediate clinical realm read this stuff. She comes from a world where only clinical professionals read charts, and that's not the case with our company.

    I don't take the name she called me personally. My disgust comes from the whole idea. Here is an experienced nurse in her early 40s who has no humility. She can't handle being in a position of knowing less than another person and having to learn. No humbleness, no receptiveness. Just blind insecurity masked with false confidence.

    And I wouldn't have posted this, but honestly, I've seen this pervasive attitude of defensive arrogance grow like cancer in this profession, it gets worse with every round of applicants. Feeling praised, worthy, and stroked is more important to so many over learning, mentorship, and knowledge. The ones especially guilty of this empty defiance are usually the ones with a guilty conscience or self-loathing over their own shortcomings. It's such a shame. She's a great nurse, I can tell she's great with patients - they love her too! But great nurses are as great nurses do, and DOING includes getting along well with other nurses. And charting considerately!!
    leslie :-D, anotherone, nursel56, and 2 others like this.
  7. 0
    Quote from NJForte
    Something about this post is off. If you communicated your criticism constructively why did she "run crying" to the supervisor? Are you sure you came off the way you though you came off? Did your disdain for her poor writing abilities come through to her like it's coming through to us?

    I don't know I wasn't there, but this story seems a bit odd.
    Maybe the orientee's culture is one that doesn't respond well to constructive criticism. After all, we have a woman who killed herself because shemerely put a call through to another nurse that ended up causing a breach of Kate Middleton's privacy.
  8. 0
    Quote from Laurie52
    My goodness, I do much more as a nurse. I assess my patient, intervene as needed and evaluate both the nursing and medical interventions. That would be in addition to"passing meds and wiping butts". I will omit my next sentence because it was too snarky
    Yeah I left that part out. Do I need a bachelor's degree in nursing to do that too? Not last time I checked.
  9. 0
    When I was in school for my LPN we had a LOT of foreign students who liked to play the "no speak English" card. Hey, it worked for them! One woman out and out failed vital signs- pulse, temp, respiration, BP... I guess it's okay because she was foreign. Had a whole row of foreign students who sat behind me and some other folks- they made it a habit of stealing stuff out of our bags, lecture packets, highlighters and the like. They also cheated off each others tests- claiming that in their country they share and help each other out. Got so bad that later when I had my RN and went back to that school as an adjunct instructor I learned that they had to split the whole class up into separate rooms to stop the cheating. If an instructor would fail them on a skill, or even have them removed from the program for poor performance- hooo boy, the dean of the program would be flooded with students in her office demanding the students be readmitted at once, or they'd plead cultural intolerance!
  10. 1
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** I was with you until I read this. What suprises me is that I am a frequient AN reader and poster. Pretty much every day I am on AN now that I get it on my phone. I read dozens of posts here every day and I never see what you describe above. I will see ADNs returning fire when they have been attacked for being uneducated or lacking proper preperation for "professional" nursing. Funny how two different people will see things so differently. I was convinced that you were right in the OP and that you were dealing with an oversenstive nurse. Now I am not so sure that your side of the story is the accurate one.
    Yes, it's not fair that when LPNs or ADNs say "I'm not an undereducated idiot who's a danger to my patients" we're branded as anti-education or an embarrassment to the profession. Most of the alleged "BSN bashing" is in the form of LPN/ADNs defending themselves when it's implied we don't have the right to exist.
    redhead_NURSE98! likes this.


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