Anti-intellectual & hyper-sensitive. WHY?

Nurses Relations

Published

I got in trouble at my job yesterday. I was training in a new case manager. After some time observing me make calls and document, she tried it on her own. She's smart, a great nurse and did a good job on her first call. But her documentation was atrocious. She charted the narrative with absolutely no punctuation, tons of mostly lower-case abbreviations (most of which are disallowed at our company per policy), all in one long block of run-on text, riddled with misspellings (our EMR doesn't have spell-check).

I know our doctors and auditors well, and KNOW they would raise a huge fuss over a note like that. Our bosses' boss will bring up notes that are poorly written and make examples of them at staff meetings. They don't demand perfection - but documentation has to be readable and reasonably error-free. I was a tactful and gentle as I could possibly be, with a smile, praising her call and complete content of the note, but said, "can I show you how the bosses want it to look?"

She said sure, and I cleaned it up & corrected the grammar & punctuation. I kept saying "I know it seems picky they've outlawed abbreviations like this, but it's policy," and "these charts are read by insurance company auditors, doctors and accreditation agencies and I'd rather you not have to deal with them asking you to clarify your notes, it can be a real pain!" I tried to be as lighthearted and kind as I could, because I could FEEL how defensive & stiff she'd gotten. I made sure to praise and praise and praise everything else she did, and assure her it didn't have to be perfect, just within policy.

Sure enough, she ran crying to the supervisor, who said she accused me of "criticizing" her writing and that I "demanded" "perfect" punctuation and grammar & that I was "condescending" to her and "belittled" her "abilities." OF COURSE she pulled the "English is my 2nd language" card - never mind she's been in the States 27 years and speaks crystal clear, articulate and accent-free English. She's been a nurse for 12 years. She has already complained that she's "not good with computers" and came from a small SNF where it was all paper charting. I tried to be mindful of this. I was as tactful and gentle as I could POSSIBLY be. I was all smiles and praise, and tiptoed around her obviously awful writing skills and visible discomfort with the EMR.

Luckily, there was a co-worker in the same office during all this, who jumped to my defense. He had my back, and explained I'd gone out of my way to make this nurse comfortable and that my criticism was kind & constructive. Thank god. Once my boss heard our side of the story she surmised this new nurse was probably nervous and hyper-sensitive, and took things the wrong way.

Just to put the icing on the cake, I overheard her talking on her phone as she walked down a hallway (I was in the hallway above in the atrium & could hear every word). "This ***** nurse who trained me in was a grammar nazi who tried to force me to write like a professor!"

*sigh*

I see so much of this brand of hyper-sensitive, anti-intellectual whining in nursing. I see it here on AN (see: LPN/ADNs bashing people with more education, etc. etc.), I see it out in the field and on the floor, at SNFs.....everywhere. WHY? Whatever happened to being okay with crawling before walking? Whatever happened to pride?

Specializes in Med/surg, Quality & Risk.
Something about this post is off. If you communicated your criticism constructively why did she "run crying" to the supervisor? Are you sure you came off the way you though you came off? Did your disdain for her poor writing abilities come through to her like it's coming through to us?

I don't know I wasn't there, but this story seems a bit odd.

Maybe the orientee's culture is one that doesn't respond well to constructive criticism. After all, we have a woman who killed herself because shemerely put a call through to another nurse that ended up causing a breach of Kate Middleton's privacy.

Specializes in Med/surg, Quality & Risk.
My goodness, I do much more as a nurse. I assess my patient, intervene as needed and evaluate both the nursing and medical interventions. That would be in addition to"passing meds and wiping butts". I will omit my next sentence because it was too snarky:)

Yeah I left that part out. Do I need a bachelor's degree in nursing to do that too? Not last time I checked.

Specializes in OB (with a history of cardiac).

When I was in school for my LPN we had a LOT of foreign students who liked to play the "no speak English" card. Hey, it worked for them! One woman out and out failed vital signs- pulse, temp, respiration, BP... I guess it's okay because she was foreign. Had a whole row of foreign students who sat behind me and some other folks- they made it a habit of stealing stuff out of our bags, lecture packets, highlighters and the like. They also cheated off each others tests- claiming that in their country they share and help each other out. Got so bad that later when I had my RN and went back to that school as an adjunct instructor I learned that they had to split the whole class up into separate rooms to stop the cheating. If an instructor would fail them on a skill, or even have them removed from the program for poor performance- hooo boy, the dean of the program would be flooded with students in her office demanding the students be readmitted at once, or they'd plead cultural intolerance!

*** I was with you until I read this. What suprises me is that I am a frequient AN reader and poster. Pretty much every day I am on AN now that I get it on my phone. I read dozens of posts here every day and I never see what you describe above. I will see ADNs returning fire when they have been attacked for being uneducated or lacking proper preperation for "professional" nursing. Funny how two different people will see things so differently. I was convinced that you were right in the OP and that you were dealing with an oversenstive nurse. Now I am not so sure that your side of the story is the accurate one.

Yes, it's not fair that when LPNs or ADNs say "I'm not an undereducated idiot who's a danger to my patients" we're branded as anti-education or an embarrassment to the profession. Most of the alleged "BSN bashing" is in the form of LPN/ADNs defending themselves when it's implied we don't have the right to exist.

Still don't see why the Op is so upset. I'm the type who loves to help people, but don't give a flip if they don't want me to help them. Many times, people want to figure the thing out themselves. And ya know what, they often do! They also will tend to run right up over you and succeed. And there you are sitting by yourself looking at your beautiful narratives, wondering if you should wallpaper your bedroom with them, or would that be too much awesomeness that you wouldn't be able to sleep?

Specializes in FNP, ONP.

I give the OP benefit of the doubt that s/he conveyed the redirection in the manner s/he reports they did. And I absolutely believe the rookie went berserk, lol. I, too, see that sort of thing in our culture all the time.

And yes, there is a palpable anti-intellectual vibe here on AN. It is the biggest disappointment about this site and it's membership, and you would have to be stolid not to notice it. It is practically a capitol crime to tout education in these forums.

I give the OP benefit of the doubt that s/he conveyed the redirection in the manner s/he reports they did. And I absolutely believe the rookie went berserk, lol. I, too, see that sort of thing in our culture all the time.

And yes, there is a palpable anti-intellectual vibe here on AN. It is the biggest disappointment about this site and it's membership, and you would have to be stolid not to notice it. It is practically a capitol crime to tout education in these forums.

I wonder, when you tell people that they're not educated enough to do a job that they've been doing competently for years, how do you expect them to react? I would never disparage someone for continuing their education. I never have. But I've seen plenty of posts saying that the continued existence of LPN and ADNs constitutes an embarrassment to this profession. When people say things like this they aren't "touting education", they are being malicious and petty. Respectful debates about whether we should raise the level of entry to practice are one thing. Statements like "ADNs are a danger to pt care" or "LPNs are undereducated nurses who prevent us from being seen as professionals" are not part of a respectful debate. And I honestly can't recall comparably hurtful things being said against BSNs here....

(note that I'm not implying BlueDevil said such things, I'm just speaking in general terms)

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
Yes, it's not fair that when LPNs or ADNs say "I'm not an undereducated idiot who's a danger to my patients" we're branded as anti-education or an embarrassment to the profession. Most of the alleged "BSN bashing" is in the form of LPN/ADNs defending themselves when it's implied we don't have the right to exist.

Show me ONE post where anyone denied your right to exist...just one. I can show you plenty where LPN's bashed RN's. And it's really stupid to lash out at a group that's making you feel self-defensive. That's the other person's problem and retaliating only makes one appear too dim to make a rational come-back. People who bash another group don't deserve a response.

Specializes in Med/Surg, Ortho, ASC.
Show me ONE post where anyone denied your right to exist...just one. I can show you plenty where LPN's bashed RN's. And it's really stupid to lash out at a group that's making you feel self-defensive. That's the other person's problem and retaliating only makes one appear too dim to make a rational come-back. People who bash another group don't deserve a response.

I think we should get back on topic.

One of the problems in nursing is that we are expected to be perfect... ever made a med error?? It is a horrible feeling... not only knowing that you could have (or maybe did) cause/d harm to a patient, but then to have to fill out a med error report for "training purposes" (after which NO training is EVER done). I know SO many nurses who say they haven't made a med error (btw... anyone who says they haven't is lying).

Ever reached the end of "that" shift (you know, the one in which you never stopped moving, ran from room to room to room, dealt with "that" patient and their family all day, had one patient try to circle the drain on you... you all know what I'm talking about)... and had the oncoming nurse ask "so was XXXXX done"? And you realize that whatever it was hadn't been done. You beat yourself up about it for days, and you KNOW the other nurse has said to her co-workers "Can you believe she didn't xxxx"? Never mind the 99 things you did RIGHT that shift, never mind the fact that your patient DIDN'T go down the drain, because you stopped it from happening... you missed that ONE thing, so all of the other positive things... things you did right, are completely irrelevant... THAT is why some nurses "cannot stand one single tiny bit of criticism or hearing they are not perfect".

Nurses are unbelievably judgmental toward each other. You'd think that since we all know what the others are going through we'd be a little more sympathetic... but nope. This mindset is seriously making me reconsider nursing as a career. I just have to figure out how on earth to escape...

Show me ONE post where anyone denied your right to exist...just one. I can show you plenty where LPN's bashed RN's. And it's really stupid to lash out at a group that's making you feel self-defensive. That's the other person's problem and retaliating only makes one appear too dim to make a rational come-back. People who bash another group don't deserve a response.

I'm referring to posts where it has been said LPNs and (especially) ADNs should be phased out, citing the view that they degrade the profession and prevent nurses from being seen as professionals in the eyes of doctors, pharmacists, PT's, etc.

If you've seen a lot of posts where LPNs degrade RNs, I'll take your word for it. I can say I've never bashed RNs. Or BSNs. All I've ever said is I long for a return to the "team nursing" model and that I feel nursing needs a multi tiered system to function efficiently. And I've said I feel ADNs are sufficiently trained to do the job they do.

I don't really feel self defensive, because I don't feel like I have anything to be defensive about.

I think we should get back on topic.

Perhaps it's regrettable that the thread has largely focused on the age old ADN vs BSN vs LPN debate.

As others have said, I was with the OP until that last line that suggested anyone who's not pro "BSN only" is anti education or anti-intellectual. I disagree. Just because someone feels ADN programs should continue to exist does not mean they are anti-intellectual.

Now, I have seen posts where people suggest BSNs are not equipped to be nurses because of some sort of lack of clinical preparation or something. I've never said anything like that. What I have said is perhaps the BSN should result in a separate, higher form of licensure. I agree it makes little sense to have two very different educational pathways that lead to the exact same license and scope of practice....

+ Add a Comment