"LPNs should be done away with altogether"

rebtur4 · Feb 17, 2009

My school offers the RN and LPN program. Because of the waiting list for the programs, most go through the LPN first and then transition into the RN. From what most of them tell me, their opinion is that the LPN program is a lot harder than the RN program. From my knowledge the only difference between a LPN and a RN is, the RN has more paperwork and LPNs can't do IV pushes or hang blood, But the LPN can be present to verify all information with the RN for a blood transfusion and monitor the patient for reactions once the transfusion is started. A few hospitals in my area hire LPNs, but in the nursing homes a new LPN starts out making the same if not more than a new RN does at the hospitals. A lot of people don't want to work in the nursing homes but for a lot of us it's where the jobs are ecspecially since the baby boomers are getting older.

debi49 · Feb 17, 2009

Jennifer....go for the job at the hospital you mentioned. They will hopefully have a good orientation and preceptor program. No matter what program we come out of...RN or LPN, we dont have a clue when we get out first job. You'll learn on the job and do fine. I've worked with some LPNs that were much better nurses than me (RN). Ive worked with my share of useless LPNs AND RNs. Go for it and dont be discouraged.

ToxicShock · Feb 17, 2009

I was in the hospital as a patient once, and the nurse asked me what I was going to college for. I told her that I wanted to go to nursing school, and that I was considering going to LPN school and then doing a bridge to RN. She said to me, and I quote, "No, don't do that! You'll be stuck in a nursing home. No one wants LPNs anymore."

Ouch.

WhoNeedsaShot? · Feb 17, 2009

From what I hear at my clinical sites (we do 4 week rotations in each area, PEDs, OB, Geri, Med Surge, etc.) We do 35 hours a week. The RNs at the Big private college do 35 hours total..... So rumor has it, that the LPNs get 4 times as much clinical training at the new BSN RNs.......

LilyBlue · Feb 17, 2009

LPNS have been mostly phased out where I work, mostly due to the fact that so many of our meds are IVP. I have worked with some wonderful LPNs in the past.

lamazeteacher · Feb 17, 2009

I worked without LPN/LVNs or 2 year grads of community college programs

for the first decade of my career as a Registered Nurse. When LPN/LVNs

first arrived on the scene, I was thrilled! A cousin by marriage was in the process of obtaining her (6 mo.) education for that certificate, and I was impressed by the similarity of subject matter in her course, to mine. (originally a 3 year hospital "training"). However, it seemed that less time and perception of needed information occurred with her preparation, and it was a "stepping stone" for her to take a further course to become a R.N.

Then I found students in R.N. programs were challenging LVN/LPN exams to work in that role to finance their entire course at a University or Community College. I was thankful that they then could develop the theory they'd learned into nursing skills, and not be in severe debt for their education. However supervision was lacking for them.

I feel guilty telling you that my 3 years as a student in a hospital program in Montreal, Quebec, Canada was practically free. We were fed (in the hospital cafeteria), housed (in nurses' residence), and educated free. The $250. went for (uncomfortable starched apron) uniforms, oxford white shoes and white stockings.

My University degree program was paid in total, through a "bursary" from the Canadian government, with additional funds for an allowance and housing. (I did have to work for the provincial government for one year in return.) Continuing education keeps me updated, along with necessary adjustments and additional facts needed in the work I've done (OTJ).

I believe there would be no nursing shortage, if that funding was available today. Hopefully some funds in the stimulus package will go to nursing education. My gratefulness for what I got, is reflected by my continued involvement and love of nursing.

At first, I was surprised that LPN/LVNs earned only 2 dollars /hour less than R.N.s. After reading the post regarding Community College 2 year preparation being only 2 semesters more than that of LPN/LVNs, it seems more appropriate, especially given the fact that while R.N.s are stuffed with 2 more semesters of theory, the LVN/LPN is getting clinical experience......

However it doesn't seem right that with 4 years of University education those

R.N.s also get only $2. more than LVN/LPNs. They do attain administrative positions sooner, though. This provides communities with 3 tiers of education for nurses. It does seem to me that blending the LVN/LPN and 2 year R.N. programs would provide patients with more well prepared nurses, and less confusion about who does what and which type of nurse's opinion was more credible.

Assessments involve "critical thinking" as well as other attributes of the 4 year University graduate, who spends considerably more time studying sociology, psychology, chemistry and physiology. I am concerned that newer software programs, like those for physicians, could take the place of reason. It might evolve into a compilation of symptoms and lab results, into the development of likely plans of care..... Someone mentioned to me that an error checking boxes in a computer program like that could result in serious misdiagnoses and treatments being given that aren't related to a particular patient's situation. Oh dear! Well all that portends a future for nurses with greater opportunities in the scope of more accurate care, with fewer "cooks" (having diverse educational preparation) in the broth. LVN/LPNs could have the option of getting certification for specialties, and holding positions such as staff R.N.s have now.

The remaining question is, what to call this new hybrid nurse (of my fantasy)

and then what label would 4 year University grads wear? Change is in the air...

Fiona59 · Feb 17, 2009

Lamazeteacher: What you dream of is a plan that the Canadian Nurses Association is trying to float within the next decade. They want the PN diploma to be the entry way into nursing. They envision a step ladder approach to education up to the PhD level.

Right now in Alberta and Ontario, the PN education is two years at college. It has basically replaced the diploma RN programme. It includes the first year uni arts classes. Several PNs I work with have degrees in other fields but the accelerated degree was not available when they decided to nurse.

The line between an RN and a PN is becoming finer and finer in "initiative programmes" in my province. The scope of the PN has increased 100% in the last decade. On the hospital floor it comes down to accessing a central line, piercing the blood or travisol bag, and acting as Charge. Once the line is accessed or the bag is pierced, the RN walks away and the patient is once again the PNs responsiblity. I know a lot of RNs who do their best to avoid charge nurse duties (I know several who I have never once seen assume the charge roll). PNs work immunization clinics, dialysis, school health, addictions programmes, psych, in the OR and in the cast clinics. We do our own admission assessments and work under our own insurance and practice permit.

Don't tell me we can't critically think. Because we do, all people should have this skill.

Nursing needs to return to the hospital based roll. It needs to be an apprenticeship type trade. It's a hands on job. Too many of the new grads we are getting are just not interested in the human body and how it works. It's all about the paycheque and how much OT they can pick up. It's as if hands on care is beneath them.

You can't make it through nursing school without meeting some body fluids, but new grads we are getting just want to delegate the "grunt" work.

Foreverplaid1 · Feb 17, 2009

Thanks for this topic, I feel the same as all those who commented and like the one by Kcochrane the most b/c she said that she is currently in RN school and the difference in the number of clinical hours can't compare with those of her LPN school hours. With that being said it is so sad to hear that we (LPN's) are not EDUCATED ENOUGH! Well, I just graduated in September and I can tell you we were educated enough to make me break out in hives (i was in a fast-paced program) and I did take my schooling very seriously. I guess what I am trying to say is it is very important to think of ALL NURSES AS JUST THAT, A NURSE,:redpinkhe NO MATTER THE LEVEL, WE ARE ALL THERE TO EDUCATE AND HELP THE PT GET BETTER AND TO ASSIST WHERE OUR SCOPE OF PRACTICE ALLOWS. NO MORE, NO LESS. I am however looking into a distance learning LVN to BSN Program though, and I will be very appreciative of all the help I can get on the floor from ALL NURSES THERE TO SUPPORT ME TO DO THE VERY BEST JOB POSSIBLE:)

suni, BSN, RN · Feb 17, 2009

I think that LPN's are valuable in the workplace. Having said that, I also realize that pt. acuuity is much higher and that there are more IVP meds. I think the key to utilization of LPN's is knowing the scope of practice in your state and delegating effectively.

Reno1978, BSN, RN · Feb 17, 2009

This is only in my experience, but I've yet to work with a LPN in a hospital setting at my last place of employment in Reno or now up in WA state. With few exceptions, I've only heard of them working in nursing homes. It seems to me like hospitals have done away with them, in my experience.

marryweather · Feb 17, 2009

I chose to become an LPN because I wasn't sure if I would like nursing. The program at the school I attended was 11 months and very difficult. It only accepts 20 students a year and to the best of my knowlege has never graduated more than 15 at a time. It was a very intense program and most of our clinicals were done in LTC facilities. However, we also received training in mental health, ob/gyn, pediatrics, and we had a surgical rotation and did med surg rotations at the local hospitals. I have found that I enjoy nursing and am now pursing my associate so that I may become an RN. When I first graduated and was applying for jobs I had a recruiter tell me that her hospital didn't hire LPNs in fact the only reason they had LPNs working for them at all is because they were there before there was a change in ownership and administration of the hopsital. I have fallen in to occupational nursing since then and I love it. LPNs have a broad scope of practice in NC however despite the nursing shortage you still don't find very many in hospitals. Most doctors offices in our area don't even utilize nurses any more they hire MOA's and MA's. It's very frustrating because I have worked with some RN's who can't even recognize an infiltrated IV and I also have worked with some wonderful RN's who were great teachers as well as wonderful co workers.

I understand the frustrations very well. During one of my clinicals while I was a student I had the pleasure to work with an LPN who had been practicing for over 20 years and was told that she could no longer hang potassium. Something she had done her whole career. She had a look of defeat in her eyes that I will never forget. With the nursing shortage being as bad as it is I would think that facilities would love to have any nurse no matter what her title as long as she had the skills and experience necessary to provide high quality patient care.

flightnurse2b, LPN · Feb 17, 2009

be proud of your profession, the N in your name stands for nurse.

work hard, learn everyday and hold your head high.

let people talk smack if they want to... brush it off.

you worked hard to earn your license and deserve respect just like anyone else.

critically thinking is making an educated decision based on facts and data. don't let anyone tell you you don't know how to.