Just let me be... - page 6
This is not a rant. This is not meant to cause any trouble. It was just on my heart and I thought I would share. Please feel free to add a line of your own :) Can't you just let me be happy to be... Read More
Mar 17, '13Quote from Paul'in'FLYeah, well, I know the "why", too.LPN's know the "how to".
RN's know the "why".
(......and if I ever ask an LPN about becoming an RN, it is because s/he seems to be bright and motivated. It is a complement, not a critique)
Mar 17, '13Quote from GrnTeaWell, as I am fond of saying, anecdote is not the singular of data. I'll see your tales of mahvelous crusty old LPNs bailing the resident or the new RN out one dark and stormy night, and raise you a dozen truly horrifying anecdotes about situations that were mis-read and mishandled by LPNs whose ignorance of physiology, assessment, and intervention was truly breathtaking
What I learned of LPNs in my first year out of school from the ones I worked with was that they were completely task-oriented, felt empowered to be mean to patients whose demographics or diagnoses were distasteful to them, they were absolutely uninterested in learning anything new, and were unwilling to take any responsibility for their screw-ups because they weren't in charge and the RN was supposed to take care of problems. Fortunately for my professional development, after that first year I worked for 7 years in an all-RN environment, and the care was exemplary.
Some years later I had occasion to teach in an LPN-to-ADN program when my ADN program put one together with a large hospital that was phasing out LPNs. The hospital put a boatload of bucks into paying for sixteen LPNs to take this program at no cost to themselves, and was going to give them their years of seniority in their new RN positions to boot. We worked very hard to make this program a success; it was taught at a lower level than the generic students' program, and we offered extra time for tests, free tutoring, extra office hours, review sections... the hospital gave them extra days off for school and all... And what happened?
You never heard such ***** and moaning about how mean this was, how they didn't want to be RNs, they didn't want the responsibility, this was too much learning, if they wanted to be RNs they'd have done it in the first place, they hate this. So much for opportunity. Of the sixteen, only four or five made it halfway through, and I think only 2 passed NCLEX RN. The others lost their jobs because they were either too stupid to learn or couldn't be bothered to learn what they needed to kee them.
Generalities? Sure. But no less so than these other rainbows-and-unicorns "we're all on the same team so we're all of the same value." Horsepucky. If that's not you I'm glad to hear it, and I am aware that this is the LPN/LVN forum I'm posting on. But let's not be self-delusional, either.
You know, I've never been one of those LPN posters who says things like "LPNs bail RNs out all the time" or "LPNs work circles around RNs". Comments like that are just silly and defensive. Yes, there's been nights where I bailed out a RN who was oblivious to a resident spiraling down the drain. And there's been nights where I was in over my head and was grateful for the education and experience of a RN to go to.
I refuse to believe that you've only worked with ignorant LPNs.
If LPNs were strictly task oriented and ignorant, let me tell you, the LTC industry would literally collapse overnight. If I didn't know how to assess residents and intervene appropriately (and, yes, independent interventions. Not just calling a RN or the doctor) there would be dozens of residents who wouldn't be alive right now.
Your experiences with LPNs reveal that you don't work with LPNs in the environment that the vast majority of us operate. We can't just pass the buck to the RN when we screw up because there ARENT any RNs most of the time on 2nd and 3rd shift in LTC land. You can say "LPNs work in a dependent role under the supervision of a RN" until you're blue, but it's utterly meaningless in an environment where a LPN is the only licensed person present.
Would it be "better" if all the LPNs in LTC were replaced with RNs? Well, yes, I suppose so. RNs have more education, and a unit where every last floor nurse was a RN would be a best case scenario. It would also be "best" if you replaced the CNAs with LPNs. And if the mid level practitioners were replaced with MDs. And why not make housekeeping have a healthcare license so that they're educated in aseptic cleaning practice?
The reality is, you'll never find enough RNs willing to staff all the nursing homes, and EVEN IF YOU COULD, it wouldn't be economically viable.
I know for an indisputable fact that my licensure and education is sufficiently suited to my position and responsibilities.
GRN Tea, I'm often at a loss as to what exactly you want for the world of nursing.
If you want all licensed nurses to have the highest possible education, you'll price us right away from the bedside, leaving a vacuum that will only be filled by UAP. LPNs exist because there is a clear and obvious role for us. Ditto for ADN RNs.
In another thread you took me to task for saying we (in LTC) should keep giving soap and water showers. And that it was irresponsible for me to say it's okay to give scheduled, set, doses of novolog to stable diabetics as opposed to sliding scales with carb counting.
This is these people's HOME. It's fine to give them a shower with regular shampoo and soap. And to treat stable diabetics with insulin regimens similar to what a doctor would prescribe a person in their home. It doesn't make one a bad or lazy nurse to think this. What a horrible life a LTC resident would have if we treated them like they were on a med surg floor.
The stubbornness and lack of flexibility puzzles me.
Mar 18, '13Thank you very much, I love it when a patient says "Oh your just an LPN." Yes sir and I just brought you the life sustaining medicine that I noticed you needed through my assessment and I called the Dr. and got the order and gave you with a smile on my face. I wish LPN's were respected for our choice. I wouldn't be an RN. I love working with patients hands on and having more than a paper relationship with them. As LPN's we offer something most RN's don't know a lot about. Compassion. I love being "just an LPN" I save lives daily as well.
Mar 18, '13I think you missed the point. She is not whining but simply stating facts that a lot of RN's don't know their rear from a hole in the ground and still get more pay and more respect simply for those 2 letters. Ask a patient who gave them better care and I think you would be surprised at the answer and there is a lot more to education than book smarts. So, you can keep your 2 letters.
Mar 18, '13Quote from slintReally? I am curious, what do you think it is, exactly, in your education and experience that gives you compassion that "most RNs" don't know anything about?As LPN's we offer something most RN's don't know a lot about. Compassion.
Mar 18, '13See, slint, you are just talking out of your butt on this. Maybe you have worked with uncaring nurses, and that has affected your opinion of them. But on that note, I have worked with REALLY dumb LPN's, who I was scared to let near my patients. Does that mean ALL LPN's are dumb? No, of course not. I know some brilliant LPN's. But your assumption that all RN's do is paperwork and that we don't care, well that's just plain ignorant. Please re-evaluate your behavior towards RN's. Please, for your own sake, and that of any professional relationship you might have with RN's.
Mar 18, '13I am a PN student...and the whole LPNs bashing RNs is just as bad. I hate hearing the whole "LPNs run circles around RNs" thing... it's s just irritating. Yes, there are LPNs that run circles around RNs and there are RNs that run circles around LPNs..there are good nurses and bad nurses. And LPNs have "more compassion" than RNs? How? That statement just sounds like a defense mechanism. A nurse is a nurse is a nurse...there are compassionate nurses of both varieties. Luckily for me I haven't seen disprespect towards RPNs in the clinical setting...RNs and RPNs work and collaborate together. We have a very wide scope here though...so maybe that is the difference.
Mar 18, '13What we need to as a nursing community, and I mean the whole bit from CNA to NP is stop pecking at each other, band together, and start getting a union together to give us all better work environments. At this point in my career, I don't care if I working next to fellow PN or a damn MD I just want more staffing so we don't have a 1:28 ratio anymore and that's in a bloody good day. There are *******s in every food chain.
Mar 18, '13I am getting ready to finish LPN school and even as a student I have seen an appalling amount of complaining and fighting between staff at all levels. I have also seen incompetence at all levels. I don't think it matters worth a #@&% what your training or experience is, as long as you are focused and dedicated and ALWAYS willing to learn. The medical field changes so much we should never stop learning from or teaching each other. The best patient care and job satisfaction is found on floors where everyone works together as a team; helping each other out when it's needed, training/guiding one another, and having the integrity and respect to tell someone if they're doing something that bothers you instead of talking about them behind their back.
Sorry if that comes off too strong, especially since I'm just a student, but I was in the Army so I know all about trying to work as a team with people from all different backgrounds. I've seen how wrong things can go from poor teamwork and how miserable it can make the workday. All it takes to be a great team is respect for one another and the ability to utilize the assets of all members of the team.
Mar 18, '13Wld cherry : well said! And that is how u feel, I didn't think u were complaining.. We all need to vent, we all need to be there for each other .. No judgment , just someone to listen
Mar 18, '13Quote from BrandonLPNYup, me too!!!Yeah, well, I know the "why", too.
Mar 18, '13Quote from HippyDippyLPNYes!!! I have thought that for a long time. We should all just be 1 union, united to represent all nurses. Imagine how much power we'd have!!!What we need to as a nursing community, and I mean the whole bit from CNA to NP is stop pecking at each other, band together, and start getting a union together to give us all better work environments. At this point in my career, I don't care if I working next to fellow PN or a damn MD I just want more staffing so we don't have a 1:28 ratio anymore and that's in a bloody good day. There are *******s in every food chain.
Oh, wait, too many egos in the way.....
Mar 18, '13Quote from mc3Don't bet on it guys.Yes!!! I have thought that for a long time. We should all just be 1 union, united to represent all nurses. Imagine how much power we'd have!!!
Oh, wait, too many egos in the way.....
The United Nurses of Alberta don't represent LPNs or Registered Psychiatric Nurses (specialist RNs). UNA only represents RNs and and have been know to have some really offensive ads about quality care coming only from RNs when it's time to renegotiate their contracts. The unions representing other nurses have complained about it.