Is this a for real "HIPAA" violation????

Nurses HIPAA

Published

Specializes in Rural Health.

I work in a very rural hospital with maybe 2 or 3 patients on the floor at a time. My son LOVES to visit me at work and walk down to the laundry with me or walk to the kitchen to pick up supplies, however I don't let him in the ER with me if we have patients there for many reasons.

A couple weeks ago he asked if he could read to the swing bed patients on the floor. I thought that was sweet (he is 7) so I talked to the social worker who was more than happy with the idea. We then ran it by the Administrator of the hospital and he was also thrilled. Then it reached the DON. She said there was no way he would be allowed to do this because it violates HIPAA. She gave me about a million reasons why it violated HIPAA but I'm confused because my son isn't going to be in there talking about the patients medical history he is going to read them a book.

It's my understanding (and please correct me if I'm wrong) if the patient signs the PIH form, it's not a violation to state that a patient is in the hospital (assuming they checked "yes" to the directory), however it is a violation to discuss with others the medical aspect of the patient. However, just acknowledging the fact they are present and accounted for in the hospital doesn't violate HIPAA or the Privacy Laws right????? Because this is what she states I would be violating by allowing him to come in and read to the patients, despite the fact we would be getting permission before he even stepped foot in the room.

I was also told by the DON that I was violating a million things whenever I allowed my son to walk to the kitchen with me or to the laundry room for supplies, even though we do not cross any areas where patients are located????

Please, someone help me make sense of this madness ;)

Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.

The problem I have with your son reading to the patients is liability. He is a minor. If anything happened during the course of your sons' presence in the room with the patient and said patient was injured (or any type of "problem"), then the hospital would be liable. Also, if your son is injured in anyway, the hospital is liable. This could also be applied with your son walking along with you through the kitchen and/or laundry room. Just because it is a very small rural hospital doesn't mean liability is deferred.

As for HIPAA? Yes, your son is a minor and therefore incapable of maintaining confidentiality.

Your DON has valid issues.

I realize you might not like what I've got to say on this issue. We had a problem with a WC that frequently had her children on the unit throughout her shift. Although I wouldn't have a problem with with kids meeting their parents at the end of shift, I do have a problem with staff having their children on the unit/workplace during working hours. It's not a daycare. Frankly I'm surprised your DON and administrator allow him to be there.

Siri is correct about the liability issues in regards to your situation. She is also correct in regards to a minor being incapable of maintaining confidentiality in regards to HIPPA.

If we were talking about LTC and a program that involves children visiting the residents, I would have a different view.

Specializes in Med/Surg, Geriatrics.

I must disagree with the others. Unless you share specific information with your 7-year old son a la diagnosis, specific identifying patient information then it would not be a violation of HIPAA. In other words, there is nothing for him to keep confidential if you don't share it with him in the first place. They have a better case for the liability issues although to be honest, that is paper thin also unless your son is being unsupervised during these sessions.

There are children volunteers at many hospitals, as well as nursing homes. And they actually help quite a bit in cheering up someones day. Same thing as pets.

I think that more of the issue is having your child there with you during worki hours. I am sure if they were there when you were not on the clock would be an entirely different thing.

HIPAA only comes into play about sharing medical and private information. Again, look at how many children visit their parents, grandparents, friends of the family, or even just friends while they are in the hospital, and HIPAA never comes into play.

There are children volunteers at many hospitals, as well as nursing homes. And they actually help quite a bit in cheering up someones day. Same thing as pets.

I think that more of the issue is having your child there with you during worki hours. I am sure if they were there when you were not on the clock would be an entirely different thing.

HIPAA only comes into play about sharing medical and private information. Again, look at how many children visit their parents, grandparents, friends of the family, or even just friends while they are in the hospital, and HIPAA never comes into play.

Volunteering is a wonderful experience for children. I began as a Red Cross Volunteer at 13 and never stopped. I think 7 is too young for formal programs like the Red Cross and Salvation Army, but I don't see why the hospital should have problems with it- except for liability and insurance reasons. The DON's excuse about HIPPA is way off base.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

I don't see how it's any different that volunteers who come in to pray, delivery trays, read, bring in pet therapy, or the millions of other ways someone can volunteer.

I don't know about HIPPA, but if it's a violation for your child to read, then all volunteers are in violation.

We've had several kids come in on "bring your child to work day". Yes, it's a liability, but all volunteers, visitors and people entering a hospital are a liability.

Specializes in Rural Health.

I guess I should clarify, when he comes to visit me it's has always been with my husband and it's on my own time during my unpaid lunch break, never while I'm on the clock. I made 1 simple mistake of grabbing several items from the laundry room (open to public) and the kitchen (open to the public) and having my son carry a blanket to the door of my department, so he could help mommy and heaven forbid, I get to spend an extra 5 mins. with my child.

And, no, I do not use my workplace as daycare as my husband is always with my son when he comes to visit me. I should also clarify, I can count the amount of times they have visited me at work and ate lunch with me on 1 hand since I started there almost a year ago - so no, I don't consider my job to be a daycare.......

My husband also agreed to not only supervise my son but also attend the HIPAA training so that my son could read to the patients but the DON still believes we are violating HIPAA, more specifically violating the privacy laws.

We've since contacted a nursing home in town who is more than thrilled to have my son come and spend the day with the residents. I just think it's a shame that the swing bed patients aren't going to get that same special care that my child at age 7 was willing to give.

Specializes in Education, Acute, Med/Surg, Tele, etc.

I too was going to let my son play cards with some of the folks in the ALF I was working in, and they told me no because of the liablity issue actually...and that an adult staff member must be present at all times to make sure the child and resident were safe. That made sence to me, but a HIPAA? Oh please!!!!!!

I have been sick of this HIPAA thing since its birth, it is like the pendulum of administrative rules has gone to the total opposite side again! One day it is helpful for folks to know information, the next day no way! Always happens in our field...bed rails yes, bed rails no way...involve the family, don't involve family...etc.

I feel that with the way things are going with HIPAA that patients will become so isolated because of the fear someone might just know what is going on that doesn't techically by administration standards has the right to know! People who are ill, in pain, in suffering need family and friends to help during this time...and HIPAA is kicking them out of the loop!

It also is painful for me to know that some of my patients are going home with family...yet that family isn't the POA so I can't really technically give them the information for discharge. Given even if my patient is of right mind, which in most cases is not the case, all they want to do is go home...not concentrating on 12 things or more they need to do once they get home. They need help...and HIPAA, which is ment to protect...is harming more than it protects!

To deny human kindness of a child who just wanted to go in and read a story to folks...my goodness where is this all going??? "I am sorry but human compassion is against your right to privacy...would you like a soda?" Sheesh!

Allowing someone to read to patients would not be a HIPAA violation however there could be many scenarios that would breech patient confidentiality. As others have said he wouldnt be getting any information however childrens natural curiosity could become a HIPAA problem. I am sure most kids would ask someone why they are there especially if it was someone they knew. Children may also readily identify patients when they see them out in public without understanding why you would not do that. Asking them if they are better now that they are out of the hospital could leave the patient with a bit of explaining to do if they didnt want people to know they were sick.

I agree with the DON there are a million situations that could come up. I also wouldnt recommend having a young child go around patients or patient care areas in the hospital. There are so many resistant bugs now and often we dont know until a culture comes back. Children do not wash their hands often, will play on floors etc. I would really worry about VRE, MRSA and C-Diff. If someone was sick enough for a hospital admission I am not sure that they would want to have a child read for them.

I must disagree with the others. Unless you share specific information with your 7-year old son a la diagnosis, specific identifying patient information then it would not be a violation of HIPAA. In other words, there is nothing for him to keep confidential if you don't share it with him in the first place. They have a better case for the liability issues although to be honest, that is paper thin also unless your son is being unsupervised during these sessions.

I agree with you Sharon.

My own 4 year old son comes in to work occasionally when I'm at lunch and since we are a very small rural town, most of my patients know me and my family outside the hospital. I ask beforehand, if they would like a visit from my son. Obviously he doesn't read yet but our patients love to see him. He also goes with my in-laws on Thursday to the LTC - they do a church service for the residents and LOVE it when my son is there and singing along with them.

On your own time I have no problem with this . . . . heck, you aren't opening up a chart and letting him read it, right?;)

steph

Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.
Unless you share specific information with your 7-year old son a la diagnosis, specific identifying patient information then it would not be a violation of HIPAA. In other words, there is nothing for him to keep confidential if you don't share it with him in the first place. They have a better case for the liability issues although to be honest, that is paper thin also unless your son is being unsupervised during these sessions.

:yeahthat:

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