Today's Dr. Phil shocker: Nursing home abuse - page 4

Or more specifically elder abuse. A woman states this particular nursing home has been abusing her mother for 2 years. Would you wait that long to remove your mother if you believed she was?... Read More

  1. Visit  InfirmiereJolie profile page
    0
    Considering that a person is caring for another human being's welfare, $18,000 is not very much money, especially when it is a family member. I would pay $1,000,000 if I had that money even if it made me 100% broke.... (Which is more important a person or money?) Most nurses make $60,000 median, which is not exactly near the federal poverty level, but definitely middle-income...

    I have seen in-home caregiving and it is a wonderful environment. They get to be at home, where they want to be, and it is 1 on 1 care. Many caregivers at home would agree with me. The family can also be actively involved, knowing exactly what kind of care is given as they are the employers. I've seen medical equipment being used by knowledgable cargivers.
    Some people who work in-home care are retired RNs...

    Public funding should be going to in-home care and shifted away from institutions. The way we treat our elderly is dreadful. There can be socialization at home too, as they can be taken out into public or have friends visit. They should not be separated from well people simply due to them being sick. They should be in the communities with the rest of us, and not end their lives in a foreign place. Quality of life can be improved


    Quote from malestunurse
    Wow that post is mostly insulting. $18000 is not just a lot of money for the 'poor' but for most people. Some elderly thrive in in the LTC environment too or might be in a position where in-home health care is not an option due to the level of care required.

    Also, what medical equipment are you talking about? It's all very well being able to afford and buy medical equipment but there has to be a need or use for it and someone with the training and knowledge to use it.
    Quote from CapeCodMermaid
    I've worked in and have run several nursing homes. I would have my family member in any of them. I would stay in any of them. Home care is not always a viable option. Many residents are a two assist and very medically unstable. Family members or someone who'll be a 24 hour a day care giver for $18,000 a year can not possibly provide the care needed.
    Quote from savoytruffle
    I agree with CapeCod. I have many people who thrive in long term care with increased socialization, proper nutrition and bathing. Home care can be an option or some, but home care dollars are just as stretched as long term cares. They suffer the same pressures to have a healthy case load with nurses who may seem overloaded with start-of-cares and supervision visits. Quality long term care allows families to have peace. That daughter who was providing 24 hour care at home can now come in and visit as a daughter, not a care giver. Nurses who are in tune with the families can help alleviate the guilt and fear with a newly placed resident. There will always be "those families". I, thankfully, have encountered more families that I enjoy working with than the ones that make me cringe. (I just have to add that I want to throw my remote at the TV when those class action lawsuit commercials about elder abuse in nursing homes come on. And if Dr Phil was doing an interview with a daughter who was singing the praises of her mom's nursing home-no one would watch. Negativity and anger gets people talking)
    Quote from dirtyhippiegirl
    I suspect these comments come from someone who has not had to seriously consider placing a family member in LTC or else you wouldn't be so flippant about $18,000. I also suspect that you've never actually *done* home care or else you would realize that "home" isn't always "a comfortable environment, and a calm and sunny place to live" or uselessly stating that medical equipment should be moveable and affordable.

    Having actually done pediatric home health, I can assure you that many times "home" is often a matchbox sized apartment with several other people living in it, that may or may not be infested with bugs, smells, dirty dishes and laundry, etc.

    Honestly, even my families that literally did live in McMansions had problems operating Hoyer lifts, wheelchairs, walkers, handicap strollers, etc. within their homes -- hallways, bedrooms, bathrooms, and doorframes in even less-than-poor peoples' houses are not built for that sort of machinery.
    Quote from amoLucia
    Folk who wear rose-colored glasses most freq know not of what they speak. Reality is very hard to view thru those glasses.

    Anyone who has tried to provide family high-level home care know the realities of time committment and financial burdens. And the toll on existing family dynamics is unbelievable!!!

    Abuses are also very, very much present in home care environments, probably more so than in institutions which are always under some agency's scrutiny. I briefly did home care - I have the horror stories to tell also.

    Regardless of the environment, experienced healthcare practitioners have seen abuses in all shapes & forms. Victims cross all age strata and SES levels. Abusers do too. So a LTC placement is no safer from abuse than a home setting. And to think one is better than the other is a big mistake.
    Last edit by InfirmiereJolie on Jan 10, '13
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  3. Visit  dirtyhippiegirl profile page
    8
    Quote from InfirmiereJolie
    I have seen in-home caregiving and it is a wonderful environment. They get to be at home, where they want to be, and it is 1 on 1 care. Many caregivers at home would agree with me. The family can also be actively involved, knowing exactly what kind of care is given as they are the employers. I've seen medical equipment being used by knowledgable cargivers.
    Some people who work in-home care are retired RNs...
    I *did* in-home care as a RN. It doesn't even appear that you're in nursing school as of yet.

    There are a lot of barriers to in-home care that you can't really grasp unless you've actually done it. Some are practical, which I've already mentioned. Some are psychological, which others have mentioned. Many are financial.

    There are certainly abuse hazards to be had with private care giving, as well. In an institutional setting, there are usually other people around -- as well as institutional checks, often times cameras, etc. that make elder abuse *less* likely to happen because you'll get caught. In a private setting, with family members that may not even be present on a weekly or monthly basis and no one to answer to, neglect and even outright abuse can pretty easily slide under the radar.

    Anyway, I'm not going to go on. Your posts seem more like you're writing a quick generalized paper for school without having actually done any research than actually replying to people. I'm sure your views will become slightly more nuanced once you have some life experience under your belt.
    LTCangel, morte, Altra, and 5 others like this.
  4. Visit  glm777 profile page
    0
    I couldn't have said it better!!!
  5. Visit  BrandonLPN profile page
    7
    Quote from InfirmiereJolie
    Considering that a person is caring for another human being's welfare, $18,000 is not very much money, especially when it is a family member. I would pay $1,000,000 if I had that money even if it made me 100% broke.... (Which is more important a person or money?) Most nurses make $60,000 median, which is not exactly near the federal poverty level, but definitely middle-income...I have seen in-home caregiving and it is a wonderful environment. Theyget to be at home, where they want to be, and it is 1 on 1 care. Many caregivers at home would agree with me. The family can also be actively involved, knowing exactly what kind of care is given as they are the employers. I've seen equipment being used by knowledgable cargivers.Some people who work in-home care are retired RNs...Public funding should be going to in-home care and shifted away from institutions. The way we treat our elderly is dreadful. There can be socialization at home too, as they can be taken out into public or have friends visit. They should not be separated from well people simply due to them being sick. They should be in the communities with the rest of us, and not end their lives in a foreign place. Quality of life can be improved
    Really? You do realize that going "100% broke" paying for home care will only result the family and their aged loved one winding up on the street together. But as long as they're there together I suppose the power of love will see them through. Or something.

    And $18k is not enough to provide care for someone who needs 24/7 care, as the vast majority of LTC residents do. Just how much were you planning to pay these home care givers? They already make pathetic wages. Most of them, I'm sure, are wonderful people. But let's be honest, you get what you pay for.

    They are *not* nurses. They are in no way prepared to do anything beyond basic custodial care. Many LTC residents are medically fragile and NEED a licensed nurse physically present around the clock. Not some on call RN who is also on call for 50 other home cases. Many of my residents would be dead in a week if their care was managed by a home health aide....
  6. Visit  BrandonLPN profile page
    8
    Just so it doesn't seem I'm dumping on home care workers, let me stress that they provide a valuable and necessary service. But home care is NOT a viable alternative to skilled nursing. They are two completely different things. Most LTC residents need more than a HHA popping in once a day. Even having a HHA 24/7 isn't enough because these people really do need a licensed nurse present to supervise care at all times. There just isn't enough money and resources to provide this level of care in home 24/7, unless you're insanely rich. And this is why nursing homes exist and won't be replaced by home care anytime soon.
    MMaeLPN, NurseGuyBri, michelle126, and 5 others like this.
  7. Visit  samadams8 profile page
    1
    I will say that I have two very close family members that did an excellent job caring for elderly loved ones with medical needs at home, and one of them worked full-time. It wasn't at all easy, but I agree with their choices, and I came and helped too. It's a really tough situation in which to be. I don't want to judge anyone about their decision either way. I personally do not want my loved ones in LTC if at all possible; but I don't have a crystal ball.

    Long-term care insurance is already outrageous for any individual to carry on himself/herself. No easy answers. It's just that God blessed and it worked out for my family members. But I cannot make judgments about what other people face/choose. There are not easy answers. I do know that there is abuse of elderly throughout many settings, and even with some folks in the home. Regardless of which path is choosen, you need vigilant, caring, and highly committed family/loved ones. Maybe it's me, but in my area, excellent LTC centers are few and far between. I wish it were not so, but it is.
    michelle126 likes this.
  8. Visit  Paul'in'FL profile page
    5
    Quote from dirtyhippiegirl
    I *did* in-home care as a RN. It doesn't even appear that you're in nursing school as of yet.

    There are a lot of barriers to in-home care that you can't really grasp unless you've actually done it. Some are practical, which I've already mentioned. Some are psychological, which others have mentioned. Many are financial.

    There are certainly abuse hazards to be had with private care giving, as well. In an institutional setting, there are usually other people around -- as well as institutional checks, often times cameras, etc. that make elder abuse *less* likely to happen because you'll get caught. In a private setting, with family members that may not even be present on a weekly or monthly basis and no one to answer to, neglect and even outright abuse can pretty easily slide under the radar.

    Anyway, I'm not going to go on. Your posts seem more like you're writing a quick generalized paper for school without having actually done any research than actually replying to people. I'm sure your views will become slightly more nuanced once you have some life experience under your belt.
    Thank you. Our little friend who is so enamoured of home health might want to include a plan on how is is going to be PAID FOR!! Whether an infant, a pet, or an elderly family member, one-on-one care is ALWAYS more expensive than communal care, and very few families can afford 24/7 assistance at all, let alone NURSING care around the clock for Uncle Frank. So, are we to have our debt-ridden governments pay instead? With funding from......where??


    Ideals are lovely, but immaturity and wishfull thinking have never solved a problem. Sadly, the unicorn who poots gold nuggets had gone missing...
    LTCangel, morte, psu_213, and 2 others like this.
  9. Visit  BrandonLPN profile page
    7
    I think people who have issues with placing loved ones in LTC would be surprised just how many residents actually *flourish* after being placed there. Sometimes it's not "the only option left". Sometimes it's the *better* option, even in cases where the family does have the money and time to care in home.

    As for abuse, well, I see far more bedsores and bruises on residents the day they're admitted than I do a year after they've been living in the facility. Take from that what you will....
    MMaeLPN, michelle126, LTCangel, and 4 others like this.
  10. Visit  GLORIAmunchkin72 profile page
    4
    My mother in law, God rest her soul, was one of those very idealistic women who vow never to put their loved one in a home so she took on the care of her own mother and gave it a heck of try, but even with help she had to cry uncle. One cannot take care of an invalid all day and all night and expect to last for months and years. She did the next best thing and put her mother in a nursing home. BUT she got involved in her care, got to know the staff, realized that you don't have a private aid and that you have to share so she came often to feed and do little things to make her mother comfortable. She wasn't there to get in the way or bark orders. Simply put she tried to make the best of the situation.

    Quote from BrandonLPN
    I think people who have issues with placing loved ones in LTC would be surprised just how many residents actually *flourish* after being placed there. Sometimes it's not "the only option left". Sometimes it's the *better* option, even in cases where the family does have the money and time to care in home.

    As for abuse, well, I see far more bedsores and bruises on residents the day they're admitted than I do a year after they've been living in the facility. Take from that what you will....
  11. Visit  funfunfun550 profile page
    0
    It just isnt fair how some people treat those caring for their loved ones but no one has the back bone to stand up to them!
  12. Visit  psu_213 profile page
    7
    Quote from InfirmiereJolie
    Considering that a person is caring for another human being's welfare, $18,000 is not very much money, especially when it is a family member. I would pay $1,000,000 if I had that money even if it made me 100% broke.... (Which is more important a person or money?) Most nurses make $60,000 median, which is not exactly near the federal poverty level, but definitely middle-income...
    No one here has made the argument the money is more important than people. By making the statement that you would make yourself 100% broke to provide home care...well, such a silliness takes all credibility away from your argument--this is the ridiculous hyperbole that you see people make on exploitative talkshows like Dr. Phil and the like.

    Suppose your family member needs total care. They need repositioned, the need a mechanical lift for all transfers, they are incontinent, they can't feed themselves. Your logic is that you or some caregiver would always be there. What if it is you time to be there? Suppose their was calloffs from the home health facility, and the burden is on you to be there. What about when you have to go to work (after all, the thousands of dollars--a lot, lot more than the $18000 number you made up--aren't going to appear from nowhere)? What is there is some accident involving another family member and you have to go out to deal with that? What happens if a neighbor knocks on the door and desperate seeks your help for some emergency at the house down the street? Are you going to leave for any other those circumstances? What happens if your loved one overestimates their abilities and falls? (How are you going to explain those bruises and the laceration??) What if they are incontinent, you get held up with this other situation and the are forced to "sit" in their urine and stool for hours? What if you are not there to turn them and they end up with a whopping pressure ulcer? It is admirable that you think you are able to provide good care at home for a loved one. However, continue to be incredibly shortsighted and you continue to propagate you insults of LTC nurses.
    MMaeLPN, LTCangel, morte, and 4 others like this.
  13. Visit  SoldierNurse22 profile page
    3
    Quote from InfirmiereJolie
    Considering that a person is caring for another human being's welfare, $18,000 is not very much money, especially when it is a family member. I would pay $1,000,000 if I had that money even if it made me 100% broke
    ^^^ THIS mentality is part of the reason this country is in the financial crisis that it's in right now. This attitude of I/my family is owed, I/my family must have ________ regardless of the practical consequences of my actions and despite the availability of other options. Time for this country to grow up a bit and realize that the money pot is not a bottomless barrel!
    MMaeLPN, VivaLasViejas, and roughmatch like this.
  14. Visit  SoldierNurse22 profile page
    7
    Adult children most likely to commit elder abuse - Health News, Health - Independent.ie
    Article raising awareness that elder abuse does happen in the community and is most likely to be committed by adult children. Irish article.

    http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/co...%20Neglect.pdf
    University of Denver article detailing the history of elder abuse, the first reports in the 1970's that focused specifically on LTC facilities, and the prevalence of abuse perpetrated by an adult child vs. the pt's spouse.

    And finally, the most damning piece:
    Elder Justice Now! » Facts About Elder Abuse in the United States
    "Who Commits Elder Abuse?

    • In almost 90% of elder abuse and neglect incidents, the perpetrator is a family member.
    • Two thirds of perpetrators are adult children or spouses. "
    Makes the thought of a professional LTC nurse who has no financial ties to their elderly patient seem a lot rosier, yes?
    MMaeLPN, redhead_NURSE98!, LTCangel, and 4 others like this.


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