Is this typical of a nursing school? Arbitrary failings, and discrimination

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In my school a fairly large number of students, including me, have been failed in our clinical courses by arbitrary decisions made by instructors. By "arbitrary decisions" I mean that the instructors are given unrestricted power to fail students without the use of predetermined standards.

In addition, these decisions seem to affect males disproportionately. This is just based on my observations, not statistics, but males appear to make up 10-20% of the students at the school while more than 90% of those failed in these arbitrary decisions are men.

I'm pretty sure gender discrimination is at work here, particularly considering that this school decides which students to admit purely based on academic standards (meaning that the disproportionate number of men being failed cannot be explained away by suggesting that men are simply weaker than women, academically speaking.) All students at this school have about a 4.0 GPA at the start of the program.

In my own experience, the instructor who failed me was very unprofessional, rude, and nasty towards me. This behavior started literally on day one, which I think disproves any possible claim that her ill will towards me was based on anything other than some sort of prejudice. She proceeded to seek out opportunities to misrepresent events in order to make me look bad, presumably so she could build a case against me to fail me.

As an example, on the paperwork with which she officially failed me in the course she vaguely stated that she had a conversation with the RN I was working with that led her to the conclusion that I "lacked initiative." What is interesting is that she made that same accusation to me in person moments after the conversation in question (which I estimate lasted about 15 seconds.) When she made the accusation to me in person, I asked her to clarify what exactly she was basing this assumption on, and she stated that the conclusion that I "lacked initiative" was based on the fact that it had come up in this conversation with the RN that a procedure had been done on my patient and that the RN had done the procedure instead of me.

I only had one RN that I was working with that day, I only had one patient that day, and my patient only had one procedure. At the time of that procedure, the RN asked the patient, "Would you rather have a female [the RN] perform this procedure instead of a male [me]?" And the patient said, "Sure. I guess I'd prefer a female." So this was an example of explicit gender discrimination that was actually cited as a reason for my instructor failing me.

I find the arbitrary nature of these decisions strange. These decisions are made against people who have invested years of their time and thousands of dollars of their money and against people who have succeeded at every step of the way in their educational career, and it is odd to me that all of their hard work can be thrown away purely based upon what appears to be an individual's personal dislike of them.

Can anyone relate to these kinds of experiences? Is this typical of nursing schools?


Specializes in critical care.
I had a nursing instructor give me a failing grade in a class which failed me for the quarter and should have removed me from the program. I was bathing a patient who had RA. the instructor sent another student in to tell me that it was time for me to have my interview with the instructor. I said I could not leave my patient until I finished the bath and had her comfortably settled. The instructor refused to see me at all for the remainder of the quarter. I talked to the Dean and my fiance talked to the Dean. I agreed to go to "counseling" to see if I "really wanted to be a nurse." Like you, I wanted to be a nurse all my life and I was working as a CNA to pay for my schooling. I took the class over from a different instructor and got an A. I was also commended for my caring attitude for my patients. So, talk to the Dean. Tell her the story. Back it up with facts and statistics if you can. Get statement from other students. Identify the instructor(s) who arbitrarily fail students. Each class and project should have goals and objects and a grading rubric. As a male, you will encounter female patients who prefer procedures to be done by another female. The RN also set you up by suggesting to the patient that she could choose a female, and then tellling your instructor you did not do the procedure without telling the instructor that it was the patient's choice. Some nurses have a reputation for "eating their young." Be hard to digest.[/quote']

This story makes me want to cry. And what does that teach you? Obedience before critical thinking? The instructor is more important than the patient? What a horrible ego! I'm glad you were able to appeal that successfully, and I hope that instructor faced disciplinary action.

Based on the responses it seems that it's normal for these things to be completely arbitrary but nobody seems to think that is a problem. I disagree. Practices like this set the stage for discrimination and other problems.

I do believe it's a problem. The problem is that it's the status quo and has been for so long that academia land doesn't change it. My program has developed clinical performance rubrics which appear to address the problem. Each quality you could display is given a rating which, in turn has a letter grade value. In theory this would take some of the arbitrary out of the equation, but every semester the clinical faculty still sits around a table and discusses whether they feel the grade earned on those things plus written assignments really fits what they think the student should get. One semester, I earned an A, but I was given a B. I worked so hard for that A, too. But because this is the way it's done, I have reached a point of complacency. Maybe one day they'll stick with what we show we've earned on paper. Until then, if any of us says we don't like it, we get told that this is good training for the real world when we're given performance evaluations by bosses. It's pretty ridiculous.

Sorry I failed to mention that it was my last quarter of nursing school when i was kicked out. So I ended up spending a year off from nursing school and I'm only now preparing to retake that quarter. So that is the career sabotage I was referring to. I mean a year set-back isn't the end of the world, but my career is definitely not where it should be at this point.[/quote']

A year set back IS a big deal, and I would be very upset as well. My program would delay by a year as well. I've been completely terrified something would happen to cause me to be held back. My family depends on me, and a whole year longer without me finishing school is a really big deal! A year set back might not technically be the end of the world, but boy would it feel like it! Hugs to you! And good luck in this final semester!

I had one clinical instructor announce at the beginning of clinical " I don't think men should be in nursing I certainly don't think they should be in this rotation(L&D), but since the university says I have to teach you, lets just try to make the best of it shall we!"[/quote']

I wonder how she would have liked it if she decided to become a doctor and one of them said to her, "I don't think women should be doctors." Wow. Fight for generations to break through that glass ceiling, then tell a man he shouldn't go into a career he wants. What a lovely gem she must have been.

We have 2 male faculty members that, by the looks of them, would have gone into the field in the 80s as well. I don't know how common it was for men to enter the field at that time, but I imagine it wasn't as common as it might be today. (Which still isn't overly common.) These instructors are the two most caring and compassionate instructors of the whole department, and they are true assets to the field. I'm glad gender bias didn't hold them back.

At the time I didn't feel I had a case to make against the instructor. This time around, I will be distrustful from the start and collect evidence in case a similar thing happens.

Ummmmm...that's not a good mindset to have. "Trust no one". Sounds like X-files lol

I also find it funny how students find the reasons other students fail as unfair. Here's my 2 cents, instructors and faculty do not publicize why someone failed. The only account you have of that is from the student who failed...EVERY time (and you see it in court everyday since we talk about litigation) someone will be the victim. If you hear about someone randomly killing 40 people, their lawyer will say "my client is innocent, self defense". So my advice...STOP speculating why your friends failed, you won't get the whole truth.

Specializes in critical care.
Ummmmm...that's not a good mindset to have. "Trust no one". Sounds like X-files lol

In all fairness, I think I would be the same way in his situation. I would go home and document everything for my own records. You can never be too safe in a situation when you feel you are being made an example of.

A little more than a decade ago, I had a job where I was basically the bottom of the totum pole in administrative support but my job also included sales functions. The problem, though, was that the "product" we were trying to sell (apartments) were in terrible shape, I wasn't given anything decent to show people, and every time I made detailed lists of what needed to be done to make these units available to show and rent, I was given 700 reasons by my boss why it wasn't possible to make them ready. Honestly, if you were shown a place that was among the most expensive in town, would you rent it when it looks dirty and unkempt? No way!

One of my coworkers, who was also a friend, told me he could tell that things didn't seem quite right and I needed to document what happened each day. He said he had a bad feeling about the way things were going. Anyway, I didn't take his advice, and one day corporate came to visit us. They were bothered that we were losing so much money and wanted to see for themselves why. I sat in a room with my boss and her boss, and was fired. She threw me right under the bus. It didn't matter that I worked my tail off to improve the property as a whole. It didn't matter that I had developed detailed reports of changes needed to bring in residents. It didn't matter that at the end of the day, I could tell them until I was blue in the face what NEEDED to happen, I didn't have the power to MAKE it happen. She blamed me completely, and I got fired.

You gotta stick with that spidey sense. You have to protect yourself. Is it a bit paranoid? Maybe. But if you feel like someone is scruitanizing you, and you feel uncomfortable in a situation, you do need to take steps to protect yourself. I'm not saying to do it if you have no reason to feel like something isn't right. But if you can tell something isn't okay, even just jotting the details of your clinical days down is helpful. You will have your side of the story straight if you ever need to make an appeal. It isn't an over the top thing to do, because it is a private effort and it's not like you're posting it on facebook or something. You keep it to yourself and you know you have it if you ever need it. And if you never need it, then hey, that's the best result possible.

Capp, if it will make you feel comfortable to document events, do it. I do think it is a good idea, if the vibe you get from this program is, in fact, accurate.

Specializes in Oncology, Ortho/trauma,.

I have been a clinical instructor as adjunct to three Nursing Facilities. 2 BSN programs one ADN.

All three of them require a rubric to base the grades on. This includes turning in all required assignments on time to professional look and arriving on time to a the ability to go from 2 pt to 4 pts by the end of the semester.

There is a mid-term evaluation so that all of the students know whether they are getting a satisfactory or a unsatisfactory.

I am required to document when a student is showing a deficiency, if they have been counseled or corrected and to address all questionable behavior and help modify their performance prior the semester ending as it helps if our student pass and not fail.

In fact it is extremely hard to fail a student from clinical that has a good GPA, for fear of litigation 31% Fail Out of Nursing Program at SCCC â€" March 7, 2011 | The Catskill Chronicle

Anyway, if you were failed for legit reasons there should have been documented proof. As with all things in nursing, if it wasn't charted it wasn't done.

Interesting, Kiphni. My school is nothing like that. With my case, the list of accusations against me was basically used to justify my failure as a sort of punishment. I don't wish to go on about my particular case, but I can assure you there was nothing that I did that was inappropriate or incompetent (like medication administration errors or sexually harassing patients.) It was mostly accusations on par with the one example I shared regarding the procedure. What's interesting is there wasn't really anything mentioned that referred to an ongoing shortcoming in performance that could be corrected.

The more I think about it, the more obvious it is to me that my fate was decided from the start with this instructor.

I also have heard quite a few similar stories from other students who joined my original class from earlier groups that they were failed out of (again, not the main point, but 100% of these ten or so people were men.) I understand and agree with the basic rationale for approaching these stories with skepticism, but, due to the similarity to my situation, they all sound very believable from my perspective.

I think it may be largely a problem with my school. Kipahni's post makes me hopeful that others may not have to deal with the same problems.

Specializes in critical care.
What's interesting is there wasn't really anything mentioned that referred to an ongoing shortcoming in performance that could be corrected.

This, right here, would prompt me to be a bit of a **** stirrer. I would go into the department head's office, profess your need to excel this semester, promise not to make the same mistakes, and say in the most innocent voice possible, "can you help me to understand what my shortcomings were, and how I might improve on them in the future?" If he or she can't give you a good answer, then ask point blank, "if there is nothing I could have done better, then why was I failed?"

Interesting, Kiphni. With my case, the list of accusations against me was basically used to justify my failure as a sort of punishment. I don't wish to go on about my particular case, but I can assure you there was nothing that I did that was inappropriate or incompetent (like medication administration errors or sexually harassing patients.) It was mostly accusations on par with the one example I shared regarding the procedure.

Just gonna leave it at this...it finally comes out to all those who were curious, there WERE other incidents...a list apparently And you STILL don't get it...you feel everything has been a punishment and accusation. No fault ever lies in the hands of the accused right?

some one who GETS it!

This, right here, would prompt me to be a bit of a **** stirrer. I would go into the department head's office, profess your need to excel this semester, promise not to make the same mistakes, and say in the most innocent voice possible, "can you help me to understand what my shortcomings were, and how I might improve on them in the future?" If he or she can't give you a good answer, then ask point blank, "if there is nothing I could have done better, then why was I failed?"
. . . She proceeded to seek out opportunities to misrepresent events in order to make me look bad, presumably so she could build a case against me to fail me.

As an example . . .

Kgh, this is from my original post in this thread.

Dictionary.com defines an "example" as "one of a number of things, or a part of something, taken to show the character of the whole."

I understand that for many sad people the internet is a fantasy land where you can go to insult random people to feel better about yourself and not have to worry about any real-world consequences. What I don't understand is the childish and obnoxious attitude with which you are continuing in what is so obviously nothing more than the repetition of an assumption.

You say, "No fault ever lies in the hands of the accused, right?" One person defending themselves or claiming to have been falsely accused of something does not imply that all people who have been accused of something are innocent. Your attitude, however (which again is based entirely on an assumption) proves that you believe anyone accused of anything is automatically guilty.

People like you who would happily join any lynch mob without asking a single question are the reason that injustices continue in this world.

@Capp sorry to hear about your situation but this is very common in nursing programs. You shouldn't have to play teachers's pet to avoid being picked on by an instructor, but that's how some instructors are, not all are like that. I've been very fortunate to have an instructor this clinical semester that understands that people do have lives outside of nursing school. When my brother was in his program he had an instructor that was purposely removing supplies he had set up prior for procedures. He never said anything he just started keeping extra supplies in his pocket. When it was time for him to graduate he did not participate in the ceremony. He received his degree by mail. He said after the experience he had with the program he was not going to participate in the graduation ceremony. I've heard too many stories of similar situations and it's hard to go up against faculty. I have just learned to keep my mouth shut and stay out of the spotlight and try to prepare for class or clinical as best as possible. I truly hope everything works out for you!!

Your school should have some type of grievance procedure. If the male ratio is 10 to 20 percent student but 90 percent of the students that fail are male, that seems odd. I can't believe someone somewhere has not said "umm, seems weird that so many of our male students fail clinicals". Secondly, if your failure to complete a procedure on a patient is due to the fact that the patient refused you, whether it be because you are male, have blonde hair, have funny ears, etc. if the patient refused you, I don't see how that could be held against you. The patient has the right to refuse. Good luck, I really hope it works out for you because something does not sound right. What that is, I don't know but I hope we hear.

I have been a clinical instructor as adjunct to three Nursing Facilities. 2 BSN programs one ADN.

All three of them require a rubric to base the grades on. This includes turning in all required assignments on time to professional look and arriving on time to a the ability to go from 2 pt to 4 pts by the end of the semester.

There is a mid-term evaluation so that all of the students know whether they are getting a satisfactory or a unsatisfactory.

I am required to document when a student is showing a deficiency, if they have been counseled or corrected and to address all questionable behavior and help modify their performance prior the semester ending as it helps if our student pass and not fail.

In fact it is extremely hard to fail a student from clinical that has a good GPA, for fear of litigation 31% Fail Out of Nursing Program at SCCC – March 7, 2011 | The Catskill Chronicle

Anyway, if you were failed for legit reasons there should have been documented proof. As with all things in nursing, if it wasn't charted it wasn't done.

I guess that's why I didn't understand how the OP was failed either. Our school does the same as you describe. We are on a pass/fail for clinicals but each instructor goes by a grading rubric of what we should be doing. We also have evaluations at mid-term and end of term. Sounds like maybe that should be consistent in ALL nursing schools.

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