woman dies in ER waiting room (article) - page 7

the first few paragraphs, click link for rest of story (too long to cut/paste) interesting. says she was in for abd pain 3x in 3 days,but never what they did for her test wise, or what they... Read More

  1. by   bopps
    Quote from Myxel67
    BOPPS:

    As I said: Of course you don't do this. But just because you don't do it, it doesn't mean that no one else does it either. That, too, would be a generalization. It seems to be what happened in the case of Mrs Rodriguez. She apparently thought she had gallstones....


    Three words to assess ability to spell (at least on Allnurses.com)
    1. receive
    2. definitely
    3. separate
    Nice dig! I could just let this slide......but that comment brings out the evil ER nurse in me! I do know how to spell, however typing is another story. Whooooppss i madeee aaa speillling mictak wundir how i made it throg nerzing scul. Hmmm whoes bein judmintal now? Gues i kint spull cause i dunt match du free wurds uzed to assis spullin on allnurzes! How do ya now my computeeer wasnut workin. Guz ye jist assummed i didn't meet ur staendards.

    I will work on my typing and proofreading skills. I sure want to be seen as a professional.
  2. by   chuck1234
    Quote from cardiacRN2006
    Boy, you are filled with one lined catch phrases.



    I don't work in an ER, and therefore cannot possibly understand what it's like to be a nurse in one, nor do I have the right to unfairly criticize the nurses who work in them.

    However, I used to be an EMT, and frequently had to drop off people who were always in "10/10" pain, or faking unconsciousness or some other kind of malady. I know how easy it is to become desensitized to this type of behavior.

    I've seen many people sleeping on the ground in triage. Lots and lots. I've seen lots of people pretending to do lots of things. The ER is the premier location for bad behavior of our population. And if making someone wait 45 minutes is a crime, then lots of nurses will be in trouble in my neck of the woods.

    It's typical for nurses to turn on each other, while still holding the doctor in high esteem. Fact is, this patient had been seen and worked up by a physician not once, but twice. One of which was 3 hours ago! But of course, it's the nurses fault, and somehow, she must 'go to jail' or 'lose her license'.



    But, it must somehow be the nurses fault, and never the physician's fault. No, they can do no wrong...
    "Unfairly criticize the nurses who work in them."
    I have never worked in the ER....
    Anyhow, Ms. Rodriquez came in and everybody in the ER did not take her seriously. She was discharged....and died..... Just only this statement along, if you have experience in the nursing field....you could tell someone did something wrong. As a result of that, Ms. Rodriquez died unnecessarily. She might not be anybody to anyone working in the ER, but she is a "butterfly" to her loved ones. If you read from the first post to the last one, the so-called ER nurses give all kinds of reason why they could not prevent the death of Ms. Rodriquez, they seldom mentioned the feeling of Ms. Rodriquez's kids. They are so self centered... What do you think if they are related to Ms. Rodriquez.... I am not related to her, but her death is not needed. Her death is horrible....not to mention that she has to suffer before she died.
  3. by   TazziRN
    Quote from chuck1234
    If you read from the first post to the last one, the so-called ER nurses give all kinds of reason why they could not prevent the death of Ms. Rodriquez, they seldom mentioned the feeling of Ms. Rodriquez's kids. They are so self centered... What do you think if they are related to Ms. Rodriquez.... I am not related to her, but her death is not needed. Her death is horrible....not to mention that she has to suffer before she died.

    Please tell me you're not referring to the ER nurses who responded in this thread, because if you are you just paid us one horrible insult.
  4. by   GingerSue
    Quote from chuck1234
    "Unfairly criticize the nurses who work in them."
    I have never worked in the ER....
    Anyhow, Ms. Rodriquez came in and everybody in the ER did not take her seriously. She was discharged....and died.....
    you could tell someone did something wrong. As a result of that, Ms. Rodriquez died unnecessarily. ...

    but her death is not needed. Her death is horrible....not to mention that she has to suffer before she died.
    My question: can a person with a perforation be helped?

    This woman was in an appropriate setting to receive help.
    Was the help provided?
    The people with the assessment skills were present.
    Did they use those skills to asses this woman?
    Could this woman have been helped?

    And I read the link about the hospital (as included above)
    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/ki...politics-local
    and the place seems to experience an interesting collection of problems.
  5. by   cardiacRN2006
    Quote from chuck1234
    .... if you have experience in the nursing field....
    Uhh, chuck, you have a whole whopping 8 months more experience than me in nursing. Not to mention I was a PCT for 10 years prior (mostly in ICUs and ERs) and actually worked in EMS prior to that.

    Quote from chuck1234
    If you read from the first post to the last one, the so-called ER nurses give all kinds of reason why they could not prevent the death of Ms. Rodriquez, they seldom mentioned the feeling of Ms. Rodriquez's kids. They are so self centered... What do you think if they are related to Ms. Rodriquez.... I am not related to her, but her death is not needed. Her death is horrible....not to mention that she has to suffer before she died.

    Yep, I actually did read all the posts. It's nice of you to assume that I didn't, but whatever. And what does "so-called ER nurses" mean? Now they aren't even ER nurses??? So, not mentioning the pt's kids somehow makes the ED nurses who responded self-centered? That's quite a naive, simplistic and ignorant view.

    Her death was horrible..so why did the Dr's miss it? Do they need any punishment?

    I guess, until you become a triage nurse (no thanks, for all the reasons listed in the thread, invluding having your fellow nurses throw you to the wolves) then you really can't critize what you do not know...
  6. by   passinthru
    Is it not still true that abdominal pain is always triaged as a top priority? No matter how often the same patient presents with the same problem...abdominal pain as chest pain, eye injuries, or anything else that threatens loss of life, sight, or limbs is a true emergency. I know ER can be hectic, but it seems the triage person was taking a lot on her shoulders when she let this one by. I would hate to be in his/her shoes.
  7. by   TazziRN
    What that triage nurse did was assume that because the pt had already been discharged, that there was nothing wrong with her. That was her big mistake. All pts returning with worsening symptoms have to be categorized as a fresh pt, and that didn't happen.
  8. by   chuck1234
    Quote from cardiacRN2006
    Uhh, chuck, you have a whole whopping 8 months more experience than me in nursing. Not to mention I was a PCT for 10 years prior (mostly in ICUs and ERs) and actually worked in EMS prior to that.




    Yep, I actually did read all the posts. It's nice of you to assume that I didn't, but whatever. And what does "so-called ER nurses" mean? Now they aren't even ER nurses??? So, not mentioning the pt's kids somehow makes the ED nurses who responded self-centered? That's quite a naive, simplistic and ignorant view.

    Her death was horrible..so why did the Dr's miss it? Do they need any punishment?

    I guess, until you become a triage nurse (no thanks, for all the reasons listed in the thread, invluding having your fellow nurses throw you to the wolves) then you really can't critize what you do not know...
    Where is the critical thinking skill?
    Read carefully, including their profiles...I only address this problem to those ER nurses...anyone of them has any feeling for those kids....
    ER doctors did do something wrong...as a nurse, when you discharged a patient...if you see anything wrong...or after you discharged a patient, and that patient is having a problem..don't you think, as a human being, that you should bring this patient back to square one, rather than "rushing" her out. If you don't address the problem to the doctors, how would they know. Don't forget, we have to learn to speak for the patients when doctors are not doing thing right. As a result of that, Ms. Rodriquez died.
  9. by   chuck1234
    Quote from TazziRN
    What that triage nurse did was assume that because the pt had already been discharged, that there was nothing wrong with her. That was her big mistake. All pts returning with worsening symptoms have to be categorized as a fresh pt, and that didn't happen.
    This is really my first time to agree with you...and based on your statement, I already know that you are a nurse with common sense...a nurse with common sense is a good nurse....
    Good luck with your job interview....
    Last edit by chuck1234 on May 22, '07
  10. by   chuck1234
    Quote from passinthru
    Is it not still true that abdominal pain is always triaged as a top priority? No matter how often the same patient presents with the same problem...abdominal pain as chest pain, eye injuries, or anything else that threatens loss of life, sight, or limbs is a true emergency. I know ER can be hectic, but it seems the triage person was taking a lot on her shoulders when she let this one by. I would hate to be in his/her shoes.
    It is true that abd pain might not be a priority.
    But when the patient came in and c/o the pain in the abdominal area, you takes notice...at this point, you should have a clear picture or baseline about this patient's mental status....when the patient's mental status has changed, then you should address the problem to the ER doctor.
    Abdominal pain is one thing, but when the abdominal pain persists and mental status has changed....in the case of Ms. Rodriquez, she was laying down on the floor...this is a Big Red Flag!!!! The nurse taking care of Ms. Rodriquez has missed a big one....a human life.
  11. by   CritterLover
    Quote from passinthru
    is it not still true that abdominal pain is always triaged as a top priority? no matter how often the same patient presents with the same problem...abdominal pain as chest pain, eye injuries, or anything else that threatens loss of life, sight, or limbs is a true emergency. i know er can be hectic, but it seems the triage person was taking a lot on her shoulders when she let this one by. i would hate to be in his/her shoes.


    no, it isn't true that abd pain is always triaged as "top priority." at best, it is going to be a level 2 (on a 5 level triage scale). i usually traige it as a 3, sometimes i give it a 2. but then, i frequently give chest pain a 3, as well.

    why???? well, for one, on any given night, chest pain and abd pain make up anywhere from 50%-75% of the patients in the waiting room. rating them all an esi of 2 kind of defeats the purpose of having a triage system in the first place (and the purpose of triage is to sort who should go where and when).

    also, most causes of abd pain (and chest pain, where i work) are not emergent -- bladder infections, constipation, stds. (for chest pain, our most commen dx is bronchitis or atypical chest pain, atypical chest pain moslty just means that the cardiac workup is negative, no cause of the chest pain was found). these patients can get bumped up to a level 2 or even a level 1 based on assessment findings (abnormal vs, abnormal assessment findings, abnormal labs, abnormal ekg -- and we do start labs/ekg in triage where i work). that is where assessment skills come in.

    thinking that everyone that c/o abd pain gets moved right to a stretcher in the back is very idealistic. it really is a nice thought, and it would really cut down on my headaches if it happened. reality, however is the following: you have 36 people in the waiting room. 12 c/o chest pain, 12 c/o abd pain, (and the other 12 probably have a "spider bite" ). you have 16 rooms in the back, and can stretch it to 24 in a pinch (hall beds), which you have done tonight. things are moving slow, because you are only staffed for 16 beds, even though you have an additional eight patients in the back. you can't get extra staff in to help move things along because no one will answer their phone. so, if everyone that c/o chest or abd pain should be brought straight to the back, where on earth do you put them, and who is going to take care of them?

    once again, i'm not trying to make excuses for the triage nurse. what i am trying to do, however, is to point out that it isn't so simple. it really surprises me how so many other nurses her are condeming the nurse that worked triage that night.

    there wasn't all that much information in the articles that i have read, and the information that is there did not come from medical professionals. much of the information came from her family, and they have a very unique perspective on the situation. please, try to remember that there are at least two sides to every story. we have no idea how full the waiting room was, if the nurse was caught up in triage or had many people in front of her. we don't know what the patient load was like in the back, or how many ambulanes were rolling in. we don't know what kind of medical work-up had been done in previous visits. we don't even know what the patient told the nurse she spoke with. and actually, we don't even know that she spoke to a nurse.

    as i've said before, i know that hospital has a horrid reputation. i've read many stories about its troubles that spacenurse has posted here. i wouldn't be all that surprised if everyone is right about the triage nurse being negligent and irresponsible. however, there are an awful lot of facts missing to pass that kind of judgement right now, and that bothers me.
  12. by   TazziRN
    The only thing I condemn her for is not re-triaging the pt but telling her to go home. BIG EMTALA violation!!! When you present to triage again, even if it's only been 5 minutes since discharge, you get another medical screening exam.
  13. by   doingourbest
    Myxel67, If you run for president, I will vote for you. I would even work countless hours on your campaign. We really need this scale.

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