Why the nurses get no respect... - page 7

Hello, everyone. I know this topic has been severely beaten, but its not dead yet because so many of us are still talking about it. I thought I would share my opinions and I invite everyone to... Read More

  1. by   Tweety
    Originally posted by Gator,SN
    HellllloNurse,
    I am sure that you are valid in your feelings but the care that you give and the difference that you make everyday is far more validating than some troll who comes on here and tries to upset and inflame people and force them to defend the career choice that they have made. If indeed, Tony is in management in the first place! Nurses know who they are and why they are here and why they choose to continue to get up everyday and try again to make every minute count.
    Hugs to you!
    Gator

    What an awesome post! I know it wasn't directed to me, but after the weeks I've had, I needed that.
  2. by   sbic56
    It's kind of ironic that this troll in his attempt to infuriate and insult the nurses here has in fact managed to get us to band together and defend the profession, that despite all the complaints, we readily stand up for. It can be likened to how a parent may speak negatively of thier own child at sometime or another, but heaven help the outsider who does the same!

    Moral being:
    Go away trolls, you can't win here!!
  3. by   mattsmom81
    I see a few like the OP in my ICU every year. They breeze in, loftily announce we are only a pitstop on the way to CRNA school (then they pause for applause). They expect to do a brain drain on skilled, dedicated, experienced nurses, then move onward and upward, as they are obviously superior to the rest of us peons.

    These types get taken down a few pegs and rightfully so, IMHO. Here as well as in real life...
  4. by   mother/babyRN
    Well, alrighty then, I do feel that is a bit biased in the wrong direction, but you brought up some interesting, albeit way too general points...Little ironic twist there and, from my point of view, largely incorrect...But hey, you are entitled to your viewpoint..Would hate to be working where you must be working or volunteering....What you described as far as attitude, appearance, etc. has by far been the minority vs the majority in my 23 plus year career but hey, thanks for sharing....
  5. by   mother/babyRN
    I meant that I would hate to encounter what you describe...Did not at all mean that I would hate working with you..But then, just arrived home from the old night shift.....
  6. by   dwoodruff
    The original post was quite informative for me. It kind of gave me an outsiders view of what many of us are all too used to.

    A couple of points should be reiterated:
    1) many nurses don't think of themselves as nor act as professionals.
    2) many nurses aren't worried about keeping up-to-date or maintaining their professional knowledge.

    Fortunately, these things can be easily corrected. But, it is necessary that our management insists on it and that the nurses follow through.

    BTW, I have no trouble getting respect from physicians, NPs, PAs, etc. It wasn't always this way. I learned early in my career that if I want them to respect me, I had better know what I was talking about. Experience does not replace knowledge!

    Just my 2 cents.

    David Woodruff, MSN, RN, CNS, CCRN
    Ed4Nurses, Inc.
    Nursing Continuing Education
  7. by   gwenith
    Originally posted by dwoodruff
    The original post was quite informative for me. It kind of gave me an outsiders view of what many of us are all too used to.

    A couple of points should be reiterated:
    1) many nurses don't think of themselves as nor act as professionals.
    2) many nurses aren't worried about keeping up-to-date or maintaining their professional knowledge.

    Fortunately, these things can be easily corrected. But, it is necessary that our management insists on it and that the nurses follow through.

    BTW, I have no trouble getting respect from physicians, NPs, PAs, etc. It wasn't always this way. I learned early in my career that if I want them to respect me, I had better know what I was talking about. Experience does not replace knowledge!

    Just my 2 cents.

    David Woodruff, MSN, RN, CNS, CCRN
    Ed4Nurses, Inc.
    Nursing Continuing Education

    I am glad you feel able to express this opinion but the big stick approach never really works rather than getting management to "insist upon it" it is better if we can encourage self motivation and empowerment. All too often I have seen education used as a magic wand to cure all ills. No attempt to analyse the problem - no attempt to determeine wherther or not it is even an educational problem just throw the staff into a room and lecture to them - problem solved.

    Typically it may be decided that short staffing is really caused by nurses not "organising thier workloads correctly" and an educational session would be set up to address this but in truth the workloads may be VERY dangerous. Read some of the threads on this board. One nurse a couple of weeks ago talked of how as a graduate she was trying to cover 15 telemetry patients!!! No amount of reorgnisation will address that deficit and it is insulting to expect her to welcome a session on how to better organise her day. When she/he complains that this is not appropriate he/she is told that tehy are "resistant to change" and "unwilling to learn"

    You say that experience does not replace knowledge well I will have to disagree with you on this point also. Please do not belittle experiential learning and practice wisdom. Admittedly they are not and should not be the only foundation of knowledge but niether should empirical knowledge be the sole support of our practice.
  8. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Actually I believe in a simple tenet: education coupled WITH experience are an UNBEATABLE combination. I don't see one as more important than the other. AND "follow-through" (as you put it) are the responbility of BOTH management and staff, Dave Woodruff. Too often, I see it fail on BOTH sides, creating a REAL accountability problem. So, your post is part-right in my eyes, but leaves much out of the whole picture. But it's your opinion and you certainly have a right to it......
  9. by   KristinWW
    A big Hee to Mattsmom - too funny and true :roll

    I see from Dave's history that he enjoys stirring up trouble. Maybe law would be a better profession? Maybe Tony is Dave?

    I hear there is a sale at Linen World. Dave - run, don't walk, and touch and sniff the nice, clean, white linens :wink2:
  10. by   roxannekkb
    Actually I believe in a simple tenet: education coupled WITH experience are an UNBEATABLE combination. I don't see one as more important than the other. AND "follow-through" (as you put it) are the responbility of BOTH management and staff, Dave Woodruff. Too often, I see it fail on BOTH sides, creating a REAL accountability problem. So, your post is part-right in my eyes, but leaves much out of the whole picture. But it's your opinion and you certainly have a right to it......

    Well said. One just is incomplete without the other. And as another poster said, you can't blame all problems on lack of education. You can educate until the cows come home but its not going to make up for inadequate staffing levels, or a lack of supplies, and so on. Education goes only so far.
    Last edit by roxannekkb on Jun 22, '03
  11. by   nowplayingEDRN
    Originally posted by gwenith
    Typically it may be decided that short staffing is really caused by nurses not "organising thier workloads correctly" ......but in truth the workloads may be VERY dangerous. .......... One nurse a couple of weeks ago talked of how as a graduate she was trying to cover 15 telemetry patients!!! No amount of reorgnisation will address that deficit and it is insulting to expect her to welcome a session on how to better organise her day. When she/he complains that this is not appropriate he/she is told that tehy are "resistant to change" and "unwilling to learn"

    I have been in this situation. It is not a comfortable nor pleasant one. It makes a person dread and hate, yes I said HATE, their job....to know that when you walk through the doors of your place of employment and know that you are going to be working with 1 other RN, an LPN and a CNA on a 47 bed unit that is most likely 100% full and that you know damn well you are the only one on that unit qualified to read telemetry monitors and have your night DON assign you the back half of the unit (which means you are covering the LPNs patients as well as your own -and this is not meant to be derogatory to my fellow LPNs for woth out you, some nights would have never ended- AND covering the 14 tele beds with out being able to clearly view the monitors). You may ask, well why did you not report the unsafe staffing to the Nurse manager or ask for extra help....well I did every night I walked in and saw the assignment for the night, I did and I was told by the nurse manager...."Your concern is noted, sorry no help" Tony, you say it sounds like burn out......you say you will no longer defend a nurse that could care less about professionalism or do not comply with the dress code. I will ask you as another did, will you defend those that do care?? will you defend those that do abide by the rules?? What you dub as complaining and burn out is a frusterated nurse who has tried to voice concern in the past and has been beat down by management, had the very depths of her professiona morals and ethics pushed beyond the envelope....if you truely do stand up for the nurses that play by thr rules and follow professional dress code, I say BRAVO! and that it would be a pleasure to have you as a nurse manager...if you don't....well, then I question why you do not leave the profession as you would be nothing more than a hired gun and not worthy to write RN after your name.

    No, I do not condone a nurse with inappropriate art on her nails....but then my nails never go past my finger tips and never use anything more than clear coat on them to keep them from breaking (that does not mean a nurse whos nails are longer and has color applied is wrong...it was just how I was taught). As for showing up in black and orange scrubs for work....welll.......maybe if it was a pediatric ward...it jus might be appropriate. For adults, I would say that a scrub jacket with a holiday pattern would be more appropriate. I am the proud owner of brightly coloured scrub jackets and all my adult patients thank me for the little bit of bright cheeriness that it provides. That is the difference between professionalism and a circus side show......but then like I said there is pediatrics and that requires an entirely different mind set and approach.

    I also agree that experience breeds knowledge....and as a true professional, I strive to broaden my knowledge base so that when I converse with a MD, I sound intelligent, but there is also an art to asking professional questions with out sounding like a blooming idiot, too...and that art comes with experience, learning from others...being fortunate to have someone to take you under their wing and show you the ropes and how it is done.....time management also comes with experience....as one learns to prioritize, one's management of time gets better. But I must agree with gwenith....the big stick approach never works well......unless the person is so completely ignorant, in which instance, it is a management problem to deal with the potentially, highly dangerous staff member.

    i also agree that to encourage and provide nurses with tools of self empowerment would go along way to helping to solve alot of problems. But wit hthat self empowerment, management must be willing to help resolve instead of divide and conquer..... And until that happens, nurse will forever continue to recieve negative publicity and disrespect from both doctors and co workers and management. And there in is the greatest injustice of all.
  12. by   BMS4
    I didn't read everyone's posts on this one, I stopped at this comment
    Nurses today are no different from the ones of years ago...essentially, they're still cleaning the patient's pee-pee and poop, giving medications, doing assessments, and taking orders from doctors and NPs. That's always been a part of the job that will never change whether you're wearing white or the most hideous scrubs.
    Dave, you are a fool if you think that's ALL a RN does. And IF you finish school and pass the boards, I don't want to work with you.

    Also, I don't appreciate being lumped into the group of nurses you have been involved with, cause the group of nurses I work with are all hard-working, competent, and smart. The doctors at our facility seem to respect us and listen to what we have to say.

    I know very few nurses who don't continue on their educations.

    I iron my uniform everyday, my shoes are always clean and the nurses I work with are all just as particular about their appearance as I am. My hair is always up and my nails are short and clean. Just like the other nurses on our floor.

    As for the complaining, so people who aren't nurses don't complain?! PLEASE!

    Dave, things aren't perfect where I work, but I don't make a habit of looking for the bad. I always look for the good. Maybe you should try that in the future. You may see things you missed before.

    One more thing, the terms "pee-pee and poop" are not normally used. Try urination or voiding and bowel movement. I for one might be more inclined to give you creditability.
  13. by   nursechris1
    Well said Paula. I haven't met too many people in this world, regardless of profession, who don't complain about their jobs.

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