Why are Newbies Such Whiners? - page 8

catchy title, eh? right up there with "why are nurses such backstabbers" (assuming that all nurses are backstabbers) and "nurses eat their young" and "why are nurses so mean?" i don't know about... Read More

  1. by   interleukin
    Re: am just very disallusioned right now, because I've been busting my butt for the past 3 yrs, working more than full time, with rare weekends off, no OT pay and no vacation, and all I hear from colleagues is what I did wrong on the days that I took so that they could go on vacation or have a weekend off.

    C'mon...at what point do you become accountable for your having to work, "more than full time?"

    Nurses find themselves saddled with all this because, usually, they haven't the courage to say, or haven't practiced saying, "No, I can't work that(day/week/weekend/shift/schedule/etc). But thanks for considering me."

    Now let's open the flood gates.

    How many of you think that if more men occupied the ranks that most of this whining and backstabbing would disappear?
  2. by   Sugar9486
    Quote from interleukin
    Now let's open the flood gates.

    How many of you think that if more men occupied the ranks that most of this whining and backstabbing would disappear?

    Why would you make a comment like that? I am a woman, and I can say no if I cannot or do not wish to work on the days that someone needs off. Yes, as women we are more supportive and emotionally attached to our jobs and co-workers, but I hardly think that makes us unable to answer a question with a simple "no".
  3. by   Tweety
    Quote from interleukin
    Re: am just very disallusioned right now, because I've been busting my butt for the past 3 yrs, working more than full time, with rare weekends off, no OT pay and no vacation, and all I hear from colleagues is what I did wrong on the days that I took so that they could go on vacation or have a weekend off.

    C'mon...at what point do you become accountable for your having to work, "more than full time?"

    Nurses find themselves saddled with all this because, usually, they haven't the courage to say, or haven't practiced saying, "No, I can't work that(day/week/weekend/shift/schedule/etc). But thanks for considering me."

    Now let's open the flood gates.

    How many of you think that if more men occupied the ranks that most of this whining and backstabbing would disappear?

    I agree. We get as much crap as we are willing to take.

    However I seriously doubt that men in nursing would change things. It would be "different" but like men in the "dog eat dog" world, things might not change.

    Why don't we just change ourselves and not worrry about getting more men in nursing.

    Floodgates open.............
    Last edit by Tweety on Jan 11, '07
  4. by   crackerjack
    I am a new grad as of May and just completed my orientation in the OR. I had a variety of preceptors, all different, of course, and I can honestly say that I don't think I had a *mean* one. There was one where we've both come to the conclusion that we communicate on different wavelengths. We had so many miscommunications it became almost comical for both of us. However, my only beef with her was that while under her preceptorship, my employer was also sending me to the AORN periop 101 course and we were being taught the newest standards but my preceptor would correct me on my technique, question the rationales, then finally make the statement that she didn't agree with the new practice/didn't care what that said that *this* is how she does things and is how I'll do it while I was with her. Then on my 3 mo eval her one beef with me was that I wasn't open to input. I'm also one to ask a lot of questions, want to know why this, why not that, etc. and I do know that she took that as being argumentative from her reactions, despite me explaining that I just wanted to understand the full picture of what I was being taught to do...I just don't want to do things blindly, I want to know why I'm doing it and much of the time her response was that she didn't know, that's just the way she's always done it, etc.

    Anyway, I had good preceptors, each with their own positive qualities that contributed to my advancement as well as each having negatives that taught me just as much. I also had many STs who were great in helping me understand all the new devices and instruments I had to learn. I only had problems with two of those, one who is a control freak and both being know-it-alls.

    I think it's what you make of it as well as 'luck-o-the draw' with personalities. People are who they are before they are professionals and it bleeds through. Sometimes I've found that there is a weird phenomenon of attraction of like kind that create a challenging environment and not just in healthcare, anywhere.
  5. by   CHATSDALE
    i think that is is sexist to believe that men are more open to new ideas/people i have seen differences in people but i never found it to be based on gender
  6. by   rn/writer
    Quote from CHATSDALE
    i think that is is sexist to believe that men are more open to new ideas/people i have seen differences in people but i never found it to be based on gender
    The main reference I saw to gender was NOT to men being more open to new ideas and people, but rather to them being more able to say no.

    Women come equipped with a natural inclination to caretake, fix, cover, compromise, and generally do whatever it takes to make things better. The fly in the ointment is that there will always be those--including other women--who will exploit that drive for their own purposes. Along with her giving nature, a woman needs to learn the boundaries that seem to come more easily to men. Nurses need to be able to say no to unreasonable conditions and expectations without fear of being fired or penalized in some other way.

    For that reason, the inhumane treatment of nurses might improve a bit if there were more men in the field. Not that every man has the ability to say no (or that no women do), only that fewer men have a guilt button to push.

    They are more likely to say, "Not enough pepople to cover the week? Not my problem. Hire more staff." Whereas many women might over-extend themselves, feel physically and emotionally drained, feel even MORE guilt over neglecting their families, and then rant and *&^%$ and moan and feel depressed about the whole situation because they aren't being given proper regard and respect.

    Neither men nor women are better, just different. And this is one area where we women can learn something from our brothers (there's plenty they can learn from us as well).

    Respect and regard start in your own head and heart. If you don't set limits and stick to them, why should anyone else honor them?
  7. by   Cattitude
    Quote from rn/writer
    the main reference i saw to gender was not to men being more open to new ideas and people, but rather to them being more able to say no.

    women come equipped with a natural inclination to caretake, fix, cover, compromise, and generally do whatever it takes to make things better. the fly in the ointment is that there will always be those--including other women--who will exploit that drive for their own purposes. along with her giving nature, a woman needs to learn the boundaries that seem to come more easily to men. nurses need to be able to say no to unreasonable conditions and expectations without fear of being fired or penalized in some other way.

    for that reason, the inhumane treatment of nurses might improve a bit if there were more men in the field. not that every man has the ability to say no (or that no women do), only that fewer men have a guilt button to push.

    they are more likely to say, "not enough pepople to cover the week? not my problem. hire more staff." whereas many women might over-extend themselves, feel physically and emotionally drained, feel even more guilt over neglecting their families, and then rant and *&^%$ and moan and feel depressed about the whole situation because they aren't being given proper regard and respect.

    neither men nor women are better, just different. and this is one area where we women can learn something from our brothers (there's plenty they can learn from us as well).

    respect and regard start in your own head and heart. if you don't set limits and stick to them, why should anyone else honor them?
    you made excellent points . i honestly can't think of one other profession that has the lack of cohesiveness that nursing does. it's such a shame because we could have such power if we really stuck together. i know its been said before but imagine the changes if the nurses in the u.s.a. made it clear that we would not be pushed around any longer by hospital administrations,hmo's,md's,etc. we deserve respect, fair pay, and decent benefits. it's possible and within our reach, sigh....

    beez
  8. by   interleukin
    To RN/Writer

    Yes, very, very nicely stated!

    Of course, there are men who do not set behavioral parameters and are abused for it. But, in general, men do tend to disable the guilt bomb before it achieves a critical mass.

    Imagine if all nurses did not tolerate poor staffing.

    Imagine if all night nurses said, "enough is enough," pay us..I mean really pay us, for turning our lives on their heads.

    Imagine if all nurses(and firemen, cops, and other critical personnel) said enough to the "every-other-weekend/holiday" schedule and demanded pay which was truly reflective for having to miss even one lifetime family/social/cultural miletsones.

    How many CEOs or upper managers do you know who miss Christmas morning?

    No, I am not a union guy. But smart hospitals will get out in front and recognize and compensate in a more realistic, 21st century manner. The rest should be left behind.

    Listen, they love it when we talk of nursing as our, "calling." That's exactly what undermines our legitimate right to expect compensation based upon real-world salary references, such as risk and responsibility. And, no, pay is not the end-all for our gripes. But nursing is tough and nothing much will change that. But, at least paying us for what we truly do is the least we should expect. I mean why are these obvious job charateristics suddenly irrelevant when it comes to nursing??

    Sure, there are plenty of rebuttals to this perspective. But until more of us have the courage to to politely say, "no" when more and more is dropped into our laps, we are destined to be forever debating the why's of our unhappiness and apparent stagnating legitimacy.
  9. by   interleukin
    Forgive me, but I thought something I wrote on another forum was appropriate here.



    Nursing students must be taught that their safety and professional well being come first. Saying, "no" to assignments or tasks that are either too demanding to maintian safety, or ramp out of control, will engender respect.

    If it brings reprimand, cynicism, condescension, or managerial resistence, then it's time for a new position.

    Not asking for help will create an instant breeding ground for stress and discontent.

    Expect and practice equality.

    Practice saying, "Your [behavior/condescension/rudeness/yelling/etc.] is unacceptable and is an embarassment to your proferssion." You will be too upset to think it when it's needed.

    Your desk is yours. Your report is vital. Don't hesitate to take it when the time comes. Don't go searching for charts for others. They're around.

    Stop apologizing for doing your job. If the doctor is supposed to put in orders, make them do it. God knows, you have enough to do and they will not very receptive when you ask them to help you with a turn or insert an ng tube. If you have to wake up a doc for a good reason, it's not about him, or you, or the price of Bahamian swordfish. It's about care. The CEO will not apologize to you after you get sprayed with sputum from disonnected vent tubing.

    In general, do not clean up after others. If they made a mess, they can help clean it. It is this kind of everyday behavior that perpetuates the die-hard, nurse-as-maid identity.

    Require that they wash their hands according to contemporary standards of infection control. It's not about them, it's about the patient. Always remind them of that. And remember, no manager worth his/her salt will ever side with a physician for not washing his/her hands.

    When approached without the courtesy of a, "Good morning, or hello," I simply say, "I'm fine..how are you?" I say it with a smile and, in ten years, it has never never failed to create the expectation of respect and decency to the interaction.

    "Yeah, but you're a guy!"

    Well, again, fuhgettaboutit!! Respect is behavior specific, not gender specific.

    Unless your patient's crashing, take your break and take your lunch. No one cares how many you've skipped. There is no martyr ranking that is tallied when you get to heaven. It's is not a badge of honor. Rather, it says, "My well being is not important. And I will fulfill whatever demand you place upon me because I am a nurse and this is my calling!"

    Why don't you just throw yourself on a pointy stick while you're at it.

    Take a stand...be a true advocate for not only your patient..but more importantly...for yourself.
  10. by   MIKelly
    I am a nursing student want-to- be and I have to say that I know from experience of being in the hospital myself (4 different stays, which included three births and one attempt to stop premature labor) that there are plenty of ****** nurses out there. It doesn't surprise me that some students come across them at all. That being said, I don't have any fears of having seasoned nurses eat me or make my initiation into nursing miserable. There are wonderful nurses out there and there are horrible ones. Not everyone is cut out to work with people; the demeanor of at least half the nurses caring for me was less than friendly or kind. That is one of the reasons I want to be a nurse. I want to be a NICE nurse that people request or speak fondly of.
  11. by   gentle
    Quote from interleukin
    But until more of us have the courage to to politely say, "no" when more and more is dropped into our laps, we are destined to be forever debating the why's of our unhappiness . . .

    Quote from interleukin
    There is no martyr ranking that is tallied when you get to heaven. It's is not a badge of honor. Rather, it says, "My well being is not important. And I will fulfill whatever demand you place upon me because I am a nurse and this is my calling!"

    Why don't you just throw yourself on a pointy stick while you're at it.

    Take a stand...be a true advocate for not only your patient..but more importantly...for yourself.

    Interleukin,

    Extremely well stated. Each person chooses whether to view nursing as their calling. If that is based on religious beliefs--as mine, then I must recognize that there will be no rewards in heaven for not going to the bathroom or taking care of my own health. If I am to fulfill my "calling," it is much wiser to stay in good health mentally and physically.




    Quote from rn/writer
    They are more likely to say, "Not enough pepople to cover the week? Not my problem. Hire more staff." Whereas many women might over-extend themselves, feel physically and emotionally drained, feel even MORE guilt over neglecting their families, and then rant and *&^%$ and moan and feel depressed about the whole situation because they aren't being given proper regard and respect.

    Thank you RN/Writer. Exactly why I do not answer the phone. The time has changed for me. Why do we complain about when will the day come when we ban together? The time for me and my house is NOW. Though not aloud, my mind quietly says.

    No, I will not come in and work today, to help you.

    Yes, I do care about the community. I know that you do too and will provide the agency nurses with income today. They will use their income to benefit the community.


    To the OP:

    Apologies for the hijack extended.

    I too have noticed the negative attitudes of some new nurses.

    You know, I wondered if some people were now entering nursing solely for the money to care for their families. I wonder.

    (I'm usually pretty pleasant and an overall nut--who loves to know the WHY--so, I get to help out both seasoned nurses and novice nurses during the day.)

    I guess the only conclusion I can come to is as follows:

    On occasion "toxic" personality nurses have become preceptors. When this occurs, the "newbie" is challenged, stressed and [judging by the posts/experience] emotionally injured, all while pursuing excellence in patient care--for those first several weeks/months.

    However, on the flip-side arrives the "emotionally and poorly knowledge based immature new nurse." (Alas, I have been this too. ) YES, I scared people and myself to death. Yes, they can be inappropriate. Yes, they can be whiney. Yes, they can be book smart and practical application knowledge poor.

    But then, what do we do with them? Or more personally, what do I do, with those like me?

    For now, I am helping them by answering quick questions. The charge nurse quietly assigns me as the go-check-on-nurse. "Go check on soandso." As for their "whining," that is a case-by-case basis.
  12. by   Ruby Vee
    Quote from interleukin

    how many of you think that if more men occupied the ranks that most of this whining and backstabbing would disappear?
    [font="comic sans ms"]now there's a sexist comment!
  13. by   interleukin
    Well, with all due respect, labeling my responses as simply, ..."a sexist comment";

    1. attempts to undermine and marginalize anything that I had presented. A common tactic in dirty political races.

    2. relieves you of any burden of having to consider/respond/refute my points, however valid they may be.

    3. suggests you haven't the courage to embrace some specific truths about women in/and nursing

    4. intimates that you are here not to advance the discussion, but simply to flame

    What say you?

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