catchy title, eh? right up there with "why are nurses such backstabbers" (assuming that all nurses are backstabbers) and "nurses eat their young" and "why are nurses so mean?" i don't know about the rest of us "seasoned nurses", but i'm getting rather tired of all the threads busting on us for being "mean" to new nurses, students, etc. it seems to be an underlying assumption on most of the threads of the ilk that nurses are mean, evil backstabbers who live to humiliate someone with less experience.
i've had the opportunity lately to observe some newbies and their preceptors from the patient's perspective. granted, i've been a nurse for 29 years and have been both an orientee and a preceptor -- most recently an orientee. so i do have some experience from pretty much all sides now.
i was a patient, flat in bed after my spinal surgery. the orientee and preceptor introduced themselves, outlined the plan for the day, and then the preceptor left for a short while to sort out another patient who was screaming the screams of the totally demented, leaving the orientee to do my assessment and am care. the orientee was supposed to be almost ready to be on her own -- and she scared me to death! wanted to give my antihypertensives when my bp was 82/50, wanted to give my hctz when i was dehydrated from vomiting, npo, and my iv rate was only 50cc/hour and a few other things indicating (to me, anyway) poor judgment. when i refused to take the meds and outlined my rationale, she ordered me to take them anyway so she wouldn't get into trouble. i asked her how long she'd been in this job, and was it her first nursing job, or where had she worked before. the floodgates opened, and she started complaining about what a terrible place it was to work, the lousy pay, the horrible hours and how all the experienced staff were mean to her. (the preceptor came back into the room in time to hear that.) totally unprofessional! the preceptor didn't say anything in front of me, and calmly took her off to "plan the rest of our day."
later that day, i overheard the orientee telling someone (i'm assuming on her cellphone) how totally mean her preceptor was, and how the preceptor was "out to get her." she said "all i was doing was bonding with my patient who is a nurse, too, and the ***** (preceptor) just totally humiliated me. she told me i was unprofessional! i thought you were supposed to be nice to your patients."
nurse eating her young? or totally out of line and unprofessional newbie whining about being justifiably corrected?
another time, i heard a preceptor tell her orientee not to give my antihypertensives if my bp was less than 100/systolic. (it was.) newbie comes in to give my antihypertensives anyway. (different newbie.) i refuse. newbie goes to get preceptor. preceptor and i discuss my bp and agree not to give antihypertensives. later, i hear preceptor calmly explaining to newbie that giving an antihypertensive to a hypotensive patient can cause problems. (they're out in the hall, evidently close to my room, and i didn't hear anyone else around, so i'm assuming there was at least an illusion of privacy for this discussion.) newbie got defensive and started lying. preceptor remained calm and reiterated her position. newbie continued to be defensive, escalating the volume. later, i hear the two newbies commisserating about how mean their respective preceptors are.
i have to admit that when i hear a new nurse complaining about how "nurses eat their young", especially after those recent experiences, i always wonder what a preceptor could possibly do to try to correct some of these blatent mistakes without being accused of being "mean." and i wonder if that new nurse was as ridiculously in the wrong as those two were, and if she was, did she have any clue that her problems weren't all someone else's fault!
precepting is a tough enough job without being accused of being evil everytime you try to help someone to do better! being a new person is difficult, too -- but please try to look at what you contribute to the problem rather than just blaming the seasoned nurses you work with!
i think that is is sexist to believe that men are more open to new ideas/people i have seen differences in people but i never found it to be based on gender
The main reference I saw to gender was NOT to men being more open to new ideas and people, but rather to them being more able to say no.
Women come equipped with a natural inclination to caretake, fix, cover, compromise, and generally do whatever it takes to make things better. The fly in the ointment is that there will always be those--including other women--who will exploit that drive for their own purposes. Along with her giving nature, a woman needs to learn the boundaries that seem to come more easily to men. Nurses need to be able to say no to unreasonable conditions and expectations without fear of being fired or penalized in some other way.
For that reason, the inhumane treatment of nurses might improve a bit if there were more men in the field. Not that every man has the ability to say no (or that no women do), only that fewer men have a guilt button to push.
They are more likely to say, "Not enough pepople to cover the week? Not my problem. Hire more staff." Whereas many women might over-extend themselves, feel physically and emotionally drained, feel even MORE guilt over neglecting their families, and then rant and *&^%$ and moan and feel depressed about the whole situation because they aren't being given proper regard and respect.
Neither men nor women are better, just different. And this is one area where we women can learn something from our brothers (there's plenty they can learn from us as well).
Respect and regard start in your own head and heart. If you don't set limits and stick to them, why should anyone else honor them?
the main reference i saw to gender was not to men being more open to new ideas and people, but rather to them being more able to say no.
women come equipped with a natural inclination to caretake, fix, cover, compromise, and generally do whatever it takes to make things better. the fly in the ointment is that there will always be those--including other women--who will exploit that drive for their own purposes. along with her giving nature, a woman needs to learn the boundaries that seem to come more easily to men. nurses need to be able to say no to unreasonable conditions and expectations without fear of being fired or penalized in some other way.
for that reason, the inhumane treatment of nurses might improve a bit if there were more men in the field. not that every man has the ability to say no (or that no women do), only that fewer men have a guilt button to push.
they are more likely to say, "not enough pepople to cover the week? not my problem. hire more staff." whereas many women might over-extend themselves, feel physically and emotionally drained, feel even more guilt over neglecting their families, and then rant and *&^%$ and moan and feel depressed about the whole situation because they aren't being given proper regard and respect.
neither men nor women are better, just different. and this is one area where we women can learn something from our brothers (there's plenty they can learn from us as well).
respect and regard start in your own head and heart. if you don't set limits and stick to them, why should anyone else honor them?
you made excellent points:idea: . i honestly can't think of one other profession that has the lack of cohesiveness that nursing does. it's such a shame because we could have such power if we really stuck together. i know its been said before but imagine the changes if the nurses in the u.s.a. made it clear that we would not be pushed around any longer by hospital administrations,hmo's,md's,etc. we deserve respect, fair pay, and decent benefits. it's possible and within our reach, sigh....
Of course, there are men who do not set behavioral parameters and are abused for it. But, in general, men do tend to disable the guilt bomb before it achieves a critical mass.
Imagine if all nurses did not tolerate poor staffing.
Imagine if all night nurses said, "enough is enough," pay us..I mean really pay us, for turning our lives on their heads.
Imagine if all nurses(and firemen, cops, and other critical personnel) said enough to the "every-other-weekend/holiday" schedule and demanded pay which was truly reflective for having to miss even one lifetime family/social/cultural miletsones.
How many CEOs or upper managers do you know who miss Christmas morning?
No, I am not a union guy. But smart hospitals will get out in front and recognize and compensate in a more realistic, 21st century manner. The rest should be left behind.
Listen, they love it when we talk of nursing as our, "calling." That's exactly what undermines our legitimate right to expect compensation based upon real-world salary references, such as risk and responsibility. And, no, pay is not the end-all for our gripes. But nursing is tough and nothing much will change that. But, at least paying us for what we truly do is the least we should expect. I mean why are these obvious job charateristics suddenly irrelevant when it comes to nursing??
Sure, there are plenty of rebuttals to this perspective. But until more of us have the courage to to politely say, "no" when more and more is dropped into our laps, we are destined to be forever debating the why's of our unhappiness and apparent stagnating legitimacy.
Forgive me, but I thought something I wrote on another forum was appropriate here.
Nursing students must be taught that their safety and professional well being come first. Saying, "no" to assignments or tasks that are either too demanding to maintian safety, or ramp out of control, will engender respect.
If it brings reprimand, cynicism, condescension, or managerial resistence, then it's time for a new position.
Not asking for help will create an instant breeding ground for stress and discontent.
Expect and practice equality.
Practice saying, "Your [behavior/condescension/rudeness/yelling/etc.] is unacceptable and is an embarassment to your proferssion." You will be too upset to think it when it's needed.
Your desk is yours. Your report is vital. Don't hesitate to take it when the time comes. Don't go searching for charts for others. They're around.
Stop apologizing for doing your job. If the doctor is supposed to put in orders, make them do it. God knows, you have enough to do and they will not very receptive when you ask them to help you with a turn or insert an ng tube. If you have to wake up a doc for a good reason, it's not about him, or you, or the price of Bahamian swordfish. It's about care. The CEO will not apologize to you after you get sprayed with sputum from disonnected vent tubing.
In general, do not clean up after others. If they made a mess, they can help clean it. It is this kind of everyday behavior that perpetuates the die-hard, nurse-as-maid identity.
Require that they wash their hands according to contemporary standards of infection control. It's not about them, it's about the patient. Always remind them of that. And remember, no manager worth his/her salt will ever side with a physician for not washing his/her hands.
When approached without the courtesy of a, "Good morning, or hello," I simply say, "I'm fine..how are you?" I say it with a smile and, in ten years, it has never never failed to create the expectation of respect and decency to the interaction.
"Yeah, but you're a guy!"
Well, again, fuhgettaboutit!! Respect is behavior specific, not gender specific.
Unless your patient's crashing, take your break and take your lunch. No one cares how many you've skipped. There is no martyr ranking that is tallied when you get to heaven. It's is not a badge of honor. Rather, it says, "My well being is not important. And I will fulfill whatever demand you place upon me because I am a nurse and this is my calling!"
Why don't you just throw yourself on a pointy stick while you're at it.
Take a stand...be a true advocate for not only your patient..but more importantly...for yourself.
I am a nursing student want-to- be and I have to say that I know from experience of being in the hospital myself (4 different stays, which included three births and one attempt to stop premature labor) that there are plenty of bitchy nurses out there. It doesn't surprise me that some students come across them at all. That being said, I don't have any fears of having seasoned nurses eat me or make my initiation into nursing miserable. There are wonderful nurses out there and there are horrible ones. Not everyone is cut out to work with people; the demeanor of at least half the nurses caring for me was less than friendly or kind. That is one of the reasons I want to be a nurse. I want to be a NICE nurse that people request or speak fondly of.
But until more of us have the courage to to politely say, "no" when more and more is dropped into our laps, we are destined to be forever debating the why's of our unhappiness . . .
There is no martyr ranking that is tallied when you get to heaven. It's is not a badge of honor. Rather, it says, "My well being is not important. And I will fulfill whatever demand you place upon me because I am a nurse and this is my calling!"
Why don't you just throw yourself on a pointy stick while you're at it.
Take a stand...be a true advocate for not only your patient..but more importantly...for yourself.
Interleukin,
Extremely well stated. Each person chooses whether to view nursing as their calling. If that is based on religious beliefs--as mine, then I must recognize that there will be no rewards in heaven for not going to the bathroom or taking care of my own health. If I am to fulfill my "calling," it is much wiser to stay in good health mentally and physically.
They are more likely to say, "Not enough pepople to cover the week? Not my problem. Hire more staff." Whereas many women might over-extend themselves, feel physically and emotionally drained, feel even MORE guilt over neglecting their families, and then rant and *&^%$ and moan and feel depressed about the whole situation because they aren't being given proper regard and respect.
Thank you RN/Writer. Exactly why I do not answer the phone. The time has changed for me. Why do we complain about when will the day come when we ban together? The time for me and my house is NOW. Though not aloud, my mind quietly says.
No, I will not come in and work today, to help you.
Yes, I do care about the community. I know that you do too and will provide the agency nurses with income today. They will use their income to benefit the community.
To the OP:
Apologies for the hijack extended.
I too have noticed the negative attitudes of some new nurses.
You know, I wondered if some people were now entering nursing solely for the money to care for their families. I wonder.
(I'm usually pretty pleasant and an overall nut--who loves to know the WHY--so, I get to help out both seasoned nurses and novice nurses during the day.)
I guess the only conclusion I can come to is as follows:
On occasion "toxic" personality nurses have become preceptors. When this occurs, the "newbie" is challenged, stressed and [judging by the posts/experience] emotionally injured, all while pursuing excellence in patient care--for those first several weeks/months.
However, on the flip-side arrives the "emotionally and poorly knowledge based immature new nurse." (Alas, I have been this too. ) YES, I scared people and myself to death. Yes, they can be inappropriate. Yes, they can be whiney. Yes, they can be book smart and practical application knowledge poor.
But then, what do we do with them? Or more personally, what do I do, with those like me?
For now, I am helping them by answering quick questions. The charge nurse quietly assigns me as the go-check-on-nurse. "Go check on soandso." As for their "whining," that is a case-by-case basis.
Well, with all due respect, labeling my responses as simply, ..."a sexist comment";
1. attempts to undermine and marginalize anything that I had presented. A common tactic in dirty political races.
2. relieves you of any burden of having to consider/respond/refute my points, however valid they may be.
3. suggests you haven't the courage to embrace some specific truths about women in/and nursing
4. intimates that you are here not to advance the discussion, but simply to flame
What say you?
Something Grandma used to say to me just came to me after reading this post: "Watch out for those nasty nosebleeds in the higher elevation."
To make a sexist comment doesn't "advance the discussion," either, BTW, it only seeks to degrade and stray.
As for the original remark about more men (after mentally weeding out, yes, the sexist tone of comment), no, i do not think the problems discussed in the OT would be any different if more men entered nursing.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
well, with all due respect, labeling my responses as simply, ..."a sexist comment";
1. attempts to undermine and marginalize anything that i had presented. a common tactic in dirty political races.
2. relieves you of any burden of having to consider/respond/refute my points, however valid they may be.
3. suggests you haven't the courage to embrace some specific truths about women in/and nursing
4. intimates that you are here not to advance the discussion, but simply to flame
what say you?
i say that labelling women as whiners and backstabbers is not only a sexist comment, it does nothing to advance the discussion. furthermore, it intimates that you have marginal respect for an entire gender and the majority of a profession.
i say that labelling women as whiners and backstabbers is not only a sexist comment, it does nothing to advance the discussion. furthermore, it intimates that you have marginal respect for an entire gender and the majority of a profession.
__________________
respectfully, you did not understand the essence the my post.
i presented an alternative view with reality-based alternative behaviors which would, by most standards, decrease the situations/scenarios wherein "whining" may rear it's head.
i happen to be a feminist in my world view of power struggles, but you have chosen to reply with a knee-jerk blanket response rather than a point-by-point rebuttal and discussion.
ironically, it is that type of reponse that is regressive in this forum.
Whiners, eh? All the whining I hear on my unit comes from the "seasoned" nurses. They are too experienced to be saddled with what they consider "distasteful" assignments, so they moan and groan until the less desirable assignments are dumped on the "whining newbies". Then they sit on their big wide butts around a computer surfing for purses while the poor dumb "newbies" wear their shoes out running the halls. I had the assignment from hell for the past five 12 hour nights. I didn't complain, I just took care of my patients. I was relieved by another rookie every morning, and everything was fine. Yesterday I was relieved by a "seasoned" nurse. She huffed and puffed in disbelief that someone as experienced and knowlegable as her her would be saddled with such as disgusting task. She immediately ran to the charge looking to get her assignment changed. It didn't happen, so she spent report bitching about the way I had charted, etc.. I finished report and left. It's been my experience, Ruby Dear, that the "newbies" have plenty to gripe about. I worked for several decades before becoming a nurse. I have never seen so much politicking, griping, and backstabbing. It's no wonder that nurses can't unite on anything.
LOL! I can't tell you how many times I've had to wait until almost 8pm to give report because the nurse thinks that this assignment isn't 'appropriate'. Hmmm, but I did it just fine. Your post couldn't be more true (and I'm only comparing it to the 11 years that I've been in hospitals on the floors-not applying in to everybody)
I happen to be a feminist in my world view of power struggles, but you have chosen to reply with a knee-jerk blanket response rather than a point-by-point rebuttal and discussion.
Ironically, it is that type of reponse that is regressive in this forum.
Yep. This is true too. Interleukin, it seems that the more men there are on the floors, the less 'whining' there is-and that's from all nurses, not just 'newbies'.
JMHO, which ranks pretty low (since I'm a newbie...)
rn/writer, RN
9 Articles; 4,168 Posts
The main reference I saw to gender was NOT to men being more open to new ideas and people, but rather to them being more able to say no.
Women come equipped with a natural inclination to caretake, fix, cover, compromise, and generally do whatever it takes to make things better. The fly in the ointment is that there will always be those--including other women--who will exploit that drive for their own purposes. Along with her giving nature, a woman needs to learn the boundaries that seem to come more easily to men. Nurses need to be able to say no to unreasonable conditions and expectations without fear of being fired or penalized in some other way.
For that reason, the inhumane treatment of nurses might improve a bit if there were more men in the field. Not that every man has the ability to say no (or that no women do), only that fewer men have a guilt button to push.
They are more likely to say, "Not enough pepople to cover the week? Not my problem. Hire more staff." Whereas many women might over-extend themselves, feel physically and emotionally drained, feel even MORE guilt over neglecting their families, and then rant and *&^%$ and moan and feel depressed about the whole situation because they aren't being given proper regard and respect.
Neither men nor women are better, just different. And this is one area where we women can learn something from our brothers (there's plenty they can learn from us as well).
Respect and regard start in your own head and heart. If you don't set limits and stick to them, why should anyone else honor them?