we've been having heated - but not yet angry - discussions

[IowaCindy]

regarding the provision of medical services to undocumented residents - illegal aliens. As students, we've had the opportunity this semester to have clinical experiences that include being with community nurses as they make well-baby visits to the new parents. Seems as if we've all noticed a vast percentage have been to undocumented families.

We're a divided bunch. Some of us can't afford insurance while in school and yet see these families recieving services that they can't get. We've discussed the morals of providing health care to all/any who are in need. The ever-present problems of limited budgeting. Today it was mentioned about the helicopter crash this weekend in Texas. An undocumented mother and her ill child were being flown somewhere for treatment when the helicopter went down. Pilot, mother, baby died. The nurse was critically injured.

A long-time L&D nurse at one of the local hospitals commented when I asked her what her thoughts were (she has some interesting experiences as a Peace Corp nurse in South America, a more global view of nursing than is usually seen here in the midwest) "Well, I've never had to do a drug test on an Hispanic mother, I've never had to call in family services for suspected abuse. I have done these many, many times for 'our own white trailer trash' American residents." She'd rather see the young families have a chance at a healthy start.

It's a puzzlement to me. I'm not sure how I feel about this. Much of my concern is linked to budget. I just see a greater and greater drain on an extremely overtaxed system already. If we have to limit our services - should not our own citizens recieve the first services available?

arghhhhhhhhhhhhh - these ethical discussions make my head spin sometimes. I think I know what I believe and then someone makes a good point and I have to reconsider what I have already concluded to be true.

I feel like Eeyore.... think, think, think, think, think

[fergus51]

Doesn't anything on this thread make people think that it's the whole system that needs changing? It just seems to be that illegals are a convinient scapegoat so we can avoid dealing with the real problems.

[Peeps Mcarthur]

Great thread,

I admit that I haven't read all 11 pages but I will. This thread has alot of thoughtful ideas. This point may have been made.

My point is that why can't we have a program to qualify these illegals as citizens?? Why give them amnesty from any responsibility at all? Why do they deserve the benefits of citizenship....jobs,government assistance,quality of life...etc, if they don't want to be citizens?

If you want to come to America to become an American, then my tax money is well spent on your care and nurturing until you can share the load. If you're here just to suckle the buraeucratic nipple to get some things your country doesn't have, then go back when harvest is over to put your non-taxed money into thier economy, then screw you.

Reporting illegal aliens?

They are illegal.................what's the moral dillema here?

Giving care to illegal aliens??

I would give care to ANYONE. I would run through a battlefield to heal an enemy combatant, stitch a DUI,s laceration while knowing she just killed a family. I would treat an illegal alien without regard to thier contribution to rising healthcare costs.................BUT I want the enemy combatants detained, the DUI prosecuted and the the illegal deported. They will have all the values of my moral bearings enforced, not just the ones that are popular.

[wjf00]

Healthcare is expensive. But then again I don't look at the full gamut of healthcare as a basic human right. It is a privilege. There are free clinics, soup kitchens, shelters and churches everywhere but too many people feel entitled to be taken care of here in America, IMO. They show up in every emergency room demanding care.

Healthcare is expensive, but Nuclear weapons are expensive too. This nation has a very warped sense of priority.

And whose nation is this anyways? Were not the native Americans over-run by a wave of illeagal immigrants. So now we are the legitimate caretakers to this land? So what makes this so, just because we have been here for a period of time. So then todays illegal alien is tommorrows leagal heir to the American dream.

Healthcare is absoloutly a right for all within our borders, and if we have to cut back on our nuclear orificenal to pay for it , then so be it.

[flowerchild]

In my area there are at least TEN FREE clinics. ANYONE, including illegals and natural born citizens can make an appointment to get care. There are another 15 or so clinics that take patients based on a sliding scale. Why is everyone crying that they can't get care? Even if you have insurance, you can still use the clinics. I know there are issues re care to non insured that may be different than someone with insurance esp in a hospital. But, even a hospital will give care needed, then set up payment plans, send the social worker, reduce the amount owed, etc.

Perhaps other areas of the country do not have these clinics. I don't know why not. Most everywhere is a health dept.

If you are one who needs care and can't get it by traditional methods then find a place you can go to. KNOW YOUR COMMUNITY RESOURCES, they are out there. If they are not there, do something about it. Where there is a will, there is a way.

[unknown99, BSN, RN]

Healthcare is expensive, but Nuclear weapons are expensive too. This nation has a very warped sense of priority.

And whose nation is this anyways? Were not the native Americans over-run by a wave of illeagal immigrants. So now we are the legitimate caretakers to this land? So what makes this so, just because we have been here for a period of time. So then todays illegal alien is tommorrows leagal heir to the American dream.

Healthcare is absoloutly a right for all within our borders, and if we have to cut back on our nuclear orificenal to pay for it , then so be it.

Now this is more like it!!!!! My sentiments exactly!!!

[MryRose]

I am for cutting back nuclear arms too.... and putting that money into defensive military for our borders and deportation excercises.

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

Hi peeps long time no hear from

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

I remember when growing up a long time ago

There was the John Birch society

They promised they could close our borders even back then if given permission to do it their way.

who knows what would have happened

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

we talk about the poor and the illegals not paying taxes

no one mentions the huge Tax incentives and tax relief given to corporations to move to certain areas. Good ole boy Republican thinking again,

We cant get anything out of the poor and the illegals

so lets give these huge corporations that are rich beyond belief Rax relief and Tax incentives so they pay far less than they should.

[mattsmom81]

Healthcare is expensive, but Nuclear weapons are expensive too. This nation has a very warped sense of priority.

And whose nation is this anyways? Were not the native Americans over-run by a wave of illeagal immigrants. So now we are the legitimate caretakers to this land? So what makes this so, just because we have been here for a period of time. So then todays illegal alien is tommorrows leagal heir to the American dream.

Healthcare is absoloutly a right for all within our borders, and if we have to cut back on our nuclear orificenal to pay for it , then so be it.

America belongs to legal Americans. And I totally disagree with your line of thinking. My ancestors legally immigrated to this country and worked hard...today's illegal population are a whole 'nuther ballgame. I also resent those who come here from other countries, don't want to learn the language, but feel it is 'their right' to demand special status. And I see a whole lot of it in Texas.

[MryRose]

we talk about the poor and the illegals not paying taxes

no one mentions the huge Tax incentives and tax relief given to corporations to move to certain areas. Good ole boy Republican thinking again,

We cant get anything out of the poor and the illegals

so lets give these huge corporations that are rich beyond belief Rax relief and Tax incentives so they pay far less than they should.

Personally, I think the entire system needs an overhaul. The problem is the rich are those that get into major public offices and they are controlled by the corporations. Legislators will never vote for a bill that will limit their control. The only time a bill for "the people" gets passed is when it is attached with a bunch of other bills that can slide on by without too much notice. If we only knew a quarter of the crap bills being passed "the people" would come uncorked. But they make it too difficult for the "common man" to understand and follow issues. However... that's another thread.

Nobody here is talking about getting anything "out" of the poor or illegals.... there clearly is nothing to get and even if there was I would be against taking it. However, I feel that our country is drowning in debt and we have to put a cork in all the leaks and stop bringing in more mouths to feed.

Legal immigration with sponsorship would work wonderfully. From what the "pro" illegal immigration folks say, there are thousands of people here who are working and paying there own way....... then let them sponsor another family to LEGALLY come here. Let them take on the burden of feeding and caring for them as they get on their feet.

My family LEGALLY immigrated here generations ago and became part of the American melting pot without aid from the government. Nobody printed government forms or signs or anything else with their language..... they had to learn English in order to survive. I do not see that happening with the illegal aliens from Mexico.

In California, just about EVERYTHING is printed in english and spanish.

Our State had the best of everything...... our economy was booming, now it's going into the toilet. We have been "social serviced" to death.

[MryRose]

In my area there are at least TEN FREE clinics. ANYONE, including illegals and natural born citizens can make an appointment to get care. There are another 15 or so clinics that take patients based on a sliding scale. Why is everyone crying that they can't get care? Even if you have insurance, you can still use the clinics. I know there are issues re care to non insured that may be different than someone with insurance esp in a hospital. But, even a hospital will give care needed, then set up payment plans, send the social worker, reduce the amount owed, etc.

Perhaps other areas of the country do not have these clinics. I don't know why not. Most everywhere is a health dept.

If you are one who needs care and can't get it by traditional methods then find a place you can go to. KNOW YOUR COMMUNITY RESOURCES, they are out there. If they are not there, do something about it. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Hey that's how I paid for my first child..... payments.... lots of payments. We did without a LOT of things. We struggled to make sure we took care of our respsonsibilites. And that is exactly the point that makes a lot of us so angry.

It is expected that one takes care of their THEIR OWN responsibilities. I had two children. That is all I could afford to have and take care of. I would have loved to have had more, but the RESPONSIBILITY was mine and I could not afford it.

Illegals come here and have baby, after baby, after baby, etc. Where is the RESPONSIBILITY????

Why am I paying for their children, food, medical and education when I can't even have more children myself???

It's completely out of hand and it should be stopped.

I DO NOT WANT TO SUPPORT ANY MORE ILLEGALS WITH MY MONEY.