Should BSNs be paid more? - page 26

I know ADNs and BSNs both sit for the same NCLEX exam, both have approximately four years of education, and at best have negligible differences (over time) in their nursing skills. BSNs take courses... Read More

  1. Visit  bsunbeam} profile page
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    [QUOTE=SmilingBluEyes]I explained all of that ad nauseum in this thread...... in a nutshell, higher education should net rewards. Nursing will not keep up or advance in the 21st century unless and until we learn to put a premium on education. Simple as that.[/QUOTE

    Believe me....I have been in nursing for a number of years and have respect for the higher education but when we are equals in the same line of work I don't think someone with a BS degree should be paid more than the AD unless they assume a different responsibility than myself. .5Ocents an hour more is fine for the effort of higher education. If the job title entails more responsibility than what I am doing then by all means... pay them more. There certainly are roles in nursing that should be broken down in catagories.
    The premium should be placed in the nursing field in general , we aren't recognized anymore as we used to be reguardless of the education we have.
    Last edit by bsunbeam on Aug 14, '05
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  3. Visit  kadokin} profile page
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    [QUOTE=bsunbeam]
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    I explained all of that ad nauseum in this thread...... in a nutshell, higher education should net rewards. Nursing will not keep up or advance in the 21st century unless and until we learn to put a premium on education. Simple as that.[/QUOTE

    Believe me....I have been in nursing for a number of years and have respect for the higher education but when we are equals in the same line of work I don't think someone with a BS degree should be paid more than the AD unless they assume a different responsibility than myself. .5Ocents an hour more is fine for the effort of higher education. If the job title entails more responsibility than what I am doing then by all means... pay them more. There certainly are roles in nursing that should be broken down in catagories.
    The premium should be placed in the nursing field in general , we aren't recognized anymore as we used to be reguardless of the education we have.
    YES! Give all nurses a pay raise. No one but our colleagues know how much we deserve it, though. The general public/admin/docs, tends to see only the most flagrant violators of the nursing code, though. (See my latest replys on nursing pet peeves thread). I can't help but wonder if all nurses were required to earn a BSN if we might not weed out the diletantes(sp)? And, unfortuntately, we have a few. I know of many CNA'S, LPN's and ADN's who take their job as seriously as I(BSN) do. I wonder, though, if we were forced to earn a 4 yr degree, might we not be a bit more inclined to work harder to earn the respect we so deserve?
  4. Visit  jmgrn65} profile page
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    [QUOTE=kadokin]
    Quote from bsunbeam
    YES! Give all nurses a pay raise. No one but our colleagues know how much we deserve it, though. The general public/admin/docs, tends to see only the most flagrant violators of the nursing code, though. (See my latest replys on nursing pet peeves thread). I can't help but wonder if all nurses were required to earn a BSN if we might not weed out the diletantes(sp)? And, unfortuntately, we have a few. I know of many CNA'S, LPN's and ADN's who take their job as seriously as I(BSN) do. I wonder, though, if we were forced to earn a 4 yr degree, might we not be a bit more inclined to work harder to earn the respect we so deserve?
    I know of some nurses that went on for thier BSN, and are still the same not so good nurse, and doesn't seem to know anymore than she did, or does any better. Education is important I have always thought that. However it doesn't always improve a person. I know ADN who are smarter and have better skills than BSN or MSN. That's not to say don't go for higher education, each individual should do what they feel is right for them. As far as pay, I am divided for the reason stated above. But on the other hand I feel education should be rewarded. On the fence on this one.
  5. Visit  sbic56} profile page
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    I wonder, though, if we were forced to earn a 4 yr degree, might we not be a bit more inclined to work harder to earn the respect we so deserve?
    No, I don't think higher education changes ones work ethic or practice. It would be nice, but I beleive those are basic traits that are separate and uninfluenced by level of education.
  6. Visit  SmilingBluEyes} profile page
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    [QUOTE=kadokin]
    Quote from bsunbeam
    . I wonder, though, if we were forced to earn a 4 yr degree, might we not be a bit more inclined to work harder to earn the respect we so deserve?
    NO, that is not the point of all this. No one should be FORCED to educate---it should be encouraged by other means. That won't get us the respect we desire or need.
  7. Visit  ZASHAGALKA} profile page
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    [QUOTE=SmilingBluEyes]
    Quote from kadokin
    NO, that is not the point of all this. No one should be FORCED to educate---it should be encouraged by other means. That won't get us the respect we desire or need.
    yeah, that.

    This is the only market way that RNs are going to move to BSN preferred.

    You tell me I'm less of a nurse because I'm an ADN, I get defensive. You tell me that, like experience, education is rewarded, THAT i can understand.

    A BSN telling me that I should be forced to adopt a standard they convenient don't have to work any harder to obtain is elitist and it doesn't take into account that experience is a great leveler in nursing.

    But there is a world of difference between being FORCED to do something and being REWARDED for doing it.

    The real question is, how to get the market to recognize the difference.

    hmmmmm?

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  8. Visit  AngelovMercy} profile page
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    We will gain respect, not because we are educated, but because we profess a higher expection of ourselves & our profession. In setting these higher standards we will SEEK higher education. This is the same metamorphosis all true professions encounter. It is just taking nursing longer than most professions to accomplish this. If we do not make this change, nursing remains a vocation, not a profession. I started out as an aide and have worked my way through BSN. My next step is MSN with hope that I will be able to sit for NP/CNS boards before I retire. Change is difficult for everyone, but it is a constant part of life. Eventually, nursing will commit to the change in entry standards. However difficult it will occur when getting a BSN becomes less uncomfortable than not getting one! Kudos to the nurses that take the initiative toward this before it is a requirement. They are the true professionals!
    Nurses should be reimbursed for the effort (and expense) they put forth to further their profession and themselves. This should be a given. Performance whether LPN, ADN or BSN is a different issue and is addressed in a merit pay system.
    Last edit by AngelovMercy on Aug 17, '05
  9. Visit  ZASHAGALKA} profile page
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    Quote from AngelovMercy
    Eventually, nursing will commit to the change in entry standards. However difficult it will occur when getting a BSN becomes less uncomfortable than not getting one!
    I doubt it.

    The only way to effect that change is why this thread is preferable to the 40 yr old losing debate about changing standards: the change should be encouraged, not forced.

    In point of fact, market forces dictate that a BSN standard cannot be enforced or even successfully initiated (Just ask N. Dakota lawmakers, who recently REPEALED a BSN standard). It just hurts nursing to continue that defunct debate.

    But there is no compelling reason why BSNs cannot be paid more (not pennies more; dollars more), thereby encouraging, rather than enforcing, a move to BSN as a 'preferable' degree.

    I've long said that if there was a REAL difference in BSN vs. ADN pay, my bach degree would be BSN, and not Biology. As it is, all things being equal, I like my shiny Aggie ring more than a BSN behind the RN behind my name.

    ~faith,
    Timothy
  10. Visit  ptadvocate81} profile page
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    Talk about beating a Dead Horse! There is an ADN vs. BSN post EVERY time I look at the new posts! Stop it already! A Nurse is a nurse is a nurse- same NCLEX, same patients, same responsibilities. Reward for more education- absolutely! Looking down your nose at someone who is less educated- NEVER!
  11. Visit  AngelovMercy} profile page
    0
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    I doubt it.

    The only way to effect that change is why this thread is preferable to the 40 yr old losing debate about changing standards: the change should be encouraged, not forced.

    In point of fact, market forces dictate that a BSN standard cannot be enforced or even successfully initiated (Just ask N. Dakota lawmakers, who recently REPEALED a BSN standard). It just hurts nursing to continue that defunct debate.

    But there is no compelling reason why BSNs cannot be paid more (not pennies more; dollars more), thereby encouraging, rather than enforcing, a move to BSN as a 'preferable' degree.

    I've long said that if there was a REAL difference in BSN vs. ADN pay, my bach degree would be BSN, and not Biology. As it is, all things being equal, I like my shiny Aggie ring more than a BSN behind the RN behind my name.

    ~faith,
    Timothy
    Don't misinterpret my post...I never suggested forcing a BSN on anybody. I agree that it needs to be voluntary and that a sizeable bonus for the time and expense of bettering your education should be awarded. This string highlights the confusion between rewarding initiative to further ones education and profession and rewarding performance. There should be a graduated base pay depending on education with merit pay awarded for performance. There are many great ADNs who may perform better than a BSN with the same amount of experience. The BSN will start out with a higher pay based on education, but it is possible for the ADN to surpass him/her with merit pay. One thing that I got in my BSN program that I didn't in the ADN program was how to ask for what I was worth. I am currently being reimbursed at 310% of my initial ADN pay ( and I was a grandmother when I started!)
    I again would like to underscore we are not yet a profession (no matter how much we want or claim to be) and won't be until there is a paradigm shift in OUR thinking. Right now it's "How much can I get with how little education and still be an RN." Societies response is, "How little can we give and still have you serve us." Someday, and I may not live to see it, we will be a true profession with the attitude being "What I know is not enough. I want to improve and continue to grow in order to offer my patients and my profession the best I can be and in return I will be recognized as a professional and be reimbursed for my knowledge, abilities and initiative." Society's response, "You have set high standards for yourself and serve us well. Although we want to pay as little as possible. Your fee is reasonable, we need your services and we are willing to pay." When the later describes the sentiment of more than 50%, we will move into the professional realm. (Majority rules!)
    Please keep in mind that currently, where the BSN and ADN practice, THEY are not reimbursed by the consumer. The hospital is reimbursed for the room or the doctor or agency is reimbursed and pays the nurse a wage, but generally speaking, the consumer does not pay for nursing services! How professional is that?
    Last edit by AngelovMercy on Aug 17, '05
  12. Visit  Marie_LPN, RN} profile page
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    Kudos to the nurses that take the initiative toward this before it is a requirement. They are the true professionals!
    Words do not describe how annoyed i was when i read this remark.


    I think i'll just take my non-professional butt out of this discussion. Because, apparently to some, even with the ADN, i won't be a true professional!
  13. Visit  SmilingBluEyes} profile page
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    Ah, well, 34 pages later, we are still polarized as ever, and some of us feeling insulted and angry. I say this thread has come "full circle", of sorts.

    If anyone has any new ideas regarding the very OLD BSN/ADN/LPN debate, feel free to bring these fresh thoughts to a new thread. We did not solve this problem in this one, I am afraid. I am afraid we will not agree on this one, folks.

    Thread closed, pending further discussion.


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