shootings and mental health

banditrn · Apr 21, 2007

It's "mentally ill". This man needed help.
Sorry, the term crazy just bugs me and I know you aren't the only one who uses it.

And you're nitpicking - I KNOW what the PC term is - but I'm sorry, when someone kills 32 innocent people and wounds 15 others, that's just crazy - you call it what you want! I'm not going to start feeling so sorry for the guy that I forget about all those people. :madface:

coral0033 · Apr 21, 2007

Noone has replied stating why are they not Psychiatric Nurses involved along with Counsellors to help in the USA. I have never been there but of all coming out of the country I personally believe , that Psy: Nurses could help with certain problems. Put them on the market.

MESSAGE:RE---SHOOTING/MENTAL HEALTH.

rn/writer, RN · Apr 21, 2007

I was a psych nurse for many years. Believe me, I share the frustrations and apprehension that Fuzzy mentions. Psych treatment is usually either mediocre or very bad. Many of the negative aspects originate with the bean counters who seem to hate psych in general because it is so "unquatifiable" and subjective. The dance in the patient's head doesn't lend itself to radiography or blood tests. It's hard to measure and therefore easy to downplay or dismiss entirely. Psych is often the neglected step-child in a hospital facility or medical corporation.

Another problem is that political correctness has ushered in the age of the victim, meaning that psych diagnoses render patients radioactive in many people's thinking. As soon as a psych label attaches, clinicians, law enforcement, and everyone else in the community start to fear being accused of insensitivity and punished for saying what's real. They do this for a good reason. There are many, some psych patients included, who falsely believe that a psych diagnosis removes ALL personal responsibility. This is just not true. But there are enough proponents of this harmful concept that treating patients with kid gloves has now replaced telling them the truth. (You ought to see patients in group, though. No kid gloves there. They often have amazing insight into each other's lives--far more than they allow themselves in their own.)

Psych patients DO need to be treated with caring and consideration. They do NOTneed to be dropped like hot potatoes because those around them are afraid of drawing lines needed for everyone's protection.

Fuzzy, I am really sorry you were treated so badly. I have often thought that some psych settings would drive the sanest among us over the edge. Some psych patients get better in spite of their treatment rather than because of it.

Sensory deprivation is harmful. Lack of human interaction does nothing to strengthen a feeling of connection. So many mentally ill people are starved for human warmth and decency and do not understand that their behavior has chased others away. If we are to get past that loneliness, we who supposedly understand what is going on, have to be willing to look behind the behaviors and meet the genuine needs. Feeding the real hunger establishes trust and builds a foundation for therapeutic interaction. Why would any psych patient open up to clinicians who appear to be distant or even assaultive (restraints and forced injections). I'm not saying there is no place for aggressive interventions, only that I think they are used too often in place of kinder means of connection.

The best psych clinicians and facilities (far too few, I'm afraid) have learned how to balance genuine caring with ethical boundaries. They are neither

professionally cold and plastic nor unprofessionally enmeshed and sloppy.

Much has been learned about this in the treatment of anorexia. For many years, the focus was on the food. Behavior mod and draconian vigilance and consequences kept some patients alive but barely and few really recovered. Breakthroughs started happening when a few caregivers and facilities came to the amazing recognition that "it's not about the food." They still offered education and monitored behavior, but the new focus became on the kiddoes (and adults) who were is excruciating pain. They started treating these girls (and a few guys) with kindness and consideration. Believing themselves unworthy of such esteem, the patients finally began to talk about why they had judged themselves and what they were afraid of. Only as these deeper issues came to the surface did the treatment have any lasting good effect.

Granted, delusional patients need more than just kindness, but kindness has to be the beginning. And sometimes kindness means setting limits.

We can't continue to do crazy-making things to people and expect anything but more insanity.

Our current system offers neither love nor limits. Judgment, isolation, and free rein to wreak personal and public havoc haven't helped so far.

lsyorke, RN · Apr 21, 2007

This blog echos my feelings on this. Cho was well known to the mental health system and the college. Sadly, no one put it all together

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-peter-breggin/the-real-mental-health-l_b_46327.html

allnurses Guide · Apr 21, 2007

This blog echos my feelings on this. Cho was well known to the mental health system and the college. Sadly, no one put it all together
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-peter-breggin/the-real-mental-health-l_b_46327.html

That was interesting . . . . involve the police in this situation.

steph

lsyorke, RN · Apr 21, 2007

Yup, better before than after.

EarthChild1130 · Apr 22, 2007

I am just saddened by the whole thing...sad for the victims, their families,and Cho and HIS family...the majority of my 2 years' experience as a nurse is in psychiatric nursing, and there is NOTHING on this Earth that I'd rather do as a career...I love it...but the system is sick...we went from treating everybody like animals in the early days to setting them loose into a world where facilities don't exist to adequately meet their needs, and there needs to be some middle ground...and I'm not really sure how to get there.

I've been in several situations myself where I've made recommendations in notes, assessments, etc., that a patient was a danger to himself or others, only to have him not be commited by a judge because the judge thought he 'looked okay'...excuse me, Mr. Judge, but who exactly IS the professional here? We had one fellow on our unit who was released by the judge...he hung himself the next day, even after he was determined to be a danger to himself in assessment by a mental health professional...I'm wondering if something of the sort happened in this case.

As for the guns, I don't know about that either...I've grown up using them my whole life...I'm an avid hunter, and I have guns in just about every room of my house...shotguns, rifles, handguns, you name it, and you'd probably find it here...I do think that there should be some sort of reform in the buying process, but I don't want to be punished because I use them, ya know? Guns find their way to the black market fairly easily, and people who can't buy them legally buy them that way...

Anyway...just my opinion...it is a sad, tragic event in our history, and I just can't imagine what the families of the victims are going through, and what Cho's family must be going through.

Fuzzy · Apr 22, 2007

I would like to thank everyone for your understanding. I'm in the system now and I feel almost like a criminal although I haven't committed a crime except to become mentally ill. Incidences like the VT shootings have a tendency to cause lawmakers to want to pass a bunch of restrictive laws. More gun control isn't going to help the problem because a person who is this angry will just find another way to take a bunch of people out. They don't care by what means. Heck a person can get bomb making instructions off of the internet not to mention the use of cars, planes, fire, and poisons.

A more welcome mental health care system would be nice. People looking to for help or forced into help should not be treated like criminals or worse than criminals. What happened to the "least restrictive environment?". Any person period should not be teased, bullied, or harassed (we know that's never going to happen as it's human nature to abuse a person who is somehow different). Getting the police involved is not necessarally a bad idea. Sometimes they do better with the mentally ill than the mental health system. This seems to be true in my area. Granted there are some mentally ill people out there who "use" the system and their illness as an excuse for bad behavior. However a more effective system with the attitude that a person has some responsibility for his actions might help curb some of that behavior.

Fuzzy

SharonH, RN · Apr 22, 2007

They consider mental illness to be a real stigma and sign of weakness.

In my personal observation, this is the case of almost all cultures including here in the good ole US of A. Only we prefer to criminalize mental illness in this society. The jails and prisons are teeming as proof of that.

JeanettePNP, MSN, RN, NP · Apr 22, 2007

I would like to thank everyone for your understanding. I'm in the system now and I feel almost like a criminal although I haven't committed a crime except to become mentally ill. Incidences like the VT shootings have a tendency to cause lawmakers to want to pass a bunch of restrictive laws. More gun control isn't going to help the problem because a person who is this angry will just find another way to take a bunch of people out. They don't care by what means. Heck a person can get bomb making instructions off of the internet not to mention the use of cars, planes, fire, and poisons.
A more welcome mental health care system would be nice. People looking to for help or forced into help should not be treated like criminals or worse than criminals. What happened to the "least restrictive environment?". Any person period should not be teased, bullied, or harassed (we know that's never going to happen as it's human nature to abuse a person who is somehow different). Getting the police involved is not necessarally a bad idea. Sometimes they do better with the mentally ill than the mental health system. This seems to be true in my area. Granted there are some mentally ill people out there who "use" the system and their illness as an excuse for bad behavior. However a more effective system with the attitude that a person has some responsibility for his actions might help curb some of that behavior.
Fuzzy

I think there needs to be a police unit especially trained to deal with mental health crises, so if a mentally ill person needs to be restrained for the safety of himself or others, this can be done in a humane and respectful fashion, not carting them away in handcuffs like a criminal.

coral0033 · Apr 23, 2007

My reply to Earth CHILD1130

I THOROUGHLY agree with you a100% you are truly a PSY;Nurse as you seem to understand the situation.With your System, something needs to be done IN USA to have patients with mental Issues Sectioned so that they could be treated for the beterment of themselves and Society.

Thank you for explaining about the gun situation in USA. THANK YOU.

user9876 · Apr 23, 2007

The lastest shooting could have been prevented if only the perpretrator could have been treated properly.

honestly, i think it's a mistake to think that we can "fix" all problems. it just doesn't really work that way. it's easy to speculate in hindsight, and i realize that's what everyone is doing, especially the media.. but like they say, hindsight is 20/20. when this first happened, nobody had any clue who this kid was and said no one on campus knew him, he had no friends, etc... then, in a matter of days, it's like "oooh... yeah... everyone was scared of him, he had mental problems, he wrote disturbing stories, he stalked girls, teachers couldn't stand him" etc etc etc. but apparently it didn't stand out enough at the time, just like it NEVER does to people... until they snap and kill a bunch of people and get "glorified" 24/7 on every news channel.