Religion's Place in Nursing - page 14

I often read Billy Graham's column and thought today's was particulary pertinent to our profession. I'm just curious as to your own personal thoughts and feelings on the matter. (Please, no... Read More

  1. by   duckboy20
    Here are some folks who deconverted that you might like to read about
    People have interesting thoughts
  2. by   CHATSDALE
    IT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A MIRACLE IF jESUS HAD BEEN COMATOSE KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT HAS HAPPEN IS THE BEGINING OF FAITH VIRGIN BIRTH AND RISING FROM THE DEAD WERE NO LESS DIFFICULT TO BELIEVE AT THAT TIME AND THEY ARE TODAY THESE PEOPLE (THE APOSTLES) WERE NOT FOOLS BUT HAD TO HAVE FACTS PROVEN TO THEM
  3. by   TopCat1234
    Quote from frances lemay
    so i will never ever be convinced that god exists, because i know he does, and he is my friend, lover, confidant, savior, father, brother , and future husband. i live to serve him through the holy spirit he gave to me when i told him i was finished with the hunk of trash i was, and gave myself over to him to do with whatever he wished.
    amen to that...can i get a witness? :chuckle

    topcat
  4. by   teeituptom
  5. by   crankyasanoldma
    Quote from teeituptom
    And because they deconverted this proves what
    too much logic
    not enough faith
    or what


    It proves nothing at all, which was my point.

    Duckboy thought reading a book about an atheist converting to theism would have a profound effect on another poster. I wondered if Duckboy knew that previously devoutly religous people convert from theism to non-theism, too.



    edited to correct spelling of "Duckboy".
    Last edit by crankyasanoldma on Apr 22, '04
  6. by   CHATSDALE
    undefinedARIAL BLACK
    Quote from crankyasanoldma
    It proves nothing at all, which was my point.

    Duckboy thought reading a book about an atheist converting to theism would have a profound effect on another poster. I wondered if Duckboy knew that previously devoutly religous people convert from theism to non-theism, too.




    edited to correct spelling of "Duckboy".
    I BELIEVE THAT SOME PEOPLE "LOSE THEIR FAITH" BUT I THINK THAT THEY ALWAYS HAVE A LINGERING DOUBT SOMEHOW COMMON SENSE TELLS YOU THAT THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF MEN CANNOT BE EXPLAINED BY EVOLUTION
  7. by   sbic56
    Quote from CHATSDALE
    undefinedARIAL BLACK
    I BELIEVE THAT SOME PEOPLE "LOSE THEIR FAITH" BUT I THINK THAT THEY ALWAYS HAVE A LINGERING DOUBT SOMEHOW COMMON SENSE TELLS YOU THAT THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF MEN CANNOT BE EXPLAINED BY EVOLUTION
    I'm more of the camp in which common sense tells me that the accomplishments of men are no more than that. And evolution is provable, so it is. One could also say, it takes more common sense to doubt the existance of god than to have blind faith that he exists. In no way do I imply having faith is not a good thing. It just isn't indicative of common sense.
  8. by   crankyasanoldma
    Quote from CHATSDALE
    undefinedARIAL BLACK
    I BELIEVE THAT SOME PEOPLE "LOSE THEIR FAITH" BUT I THINK THAT THEY ALWAYS HAVE A LINGERING DOUBT SOMEHOW COMMON SENSE TELLS YOU THAT THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF MEN CANNOT BE EXPLAINED BY EVOLUTION
    First, shouting is not necessary. This has been a civil and interesting discussion and as in most discussions, shouting louder than anyone else doesn't make you 'righter'.

    Second, you may 'believe' that atheists "always" have 'lingering doubt" but you would generally be wrong in that belief (see the previous links I posted if you dare).

    Third, evolution and the "accomplisments of men" are not related. The two things have nothing to do with each other.

    Finally, common sense is not a hallmark of faith.
  9. by   duckboy20
    Duckboy thought reading a book about an atheist converting to theism would have a profound effect on another poster. I wondered if Duckboy knew that previously devoutly religous people convert from theism to non-theism, too.
    I don't know where you got the idea that I thought this book would have a "profound" effect on another poster so you can get off my back. The purpose of me putting that on there for that poster to look at was so maybe they could see my point of view from a person who used to be an atheist.
  10. by   VickyRN
    He Lives
    I serve a risen Savior He's in the world today;
    I know that He is living, whatever men may say;
    I see His hand of mercy, I hear His voice of cheer,
    And just the time I need Him He's always near.

    He lives He lives Christ Jesus lives today!
    He walks with me and talks with me
    Along life's narrow way.
    He lives He lives, salvation to impart!
    You ask me how I know He lives?
    He lives within my heart.
    Jesus Christ became my Lord and Savior when I was 18 years old. What a profound change He brought about in my life! Without dispute, the biggest miracle is that of the new birth, being "born again." In the years following, He has become my best friend, my advocate, my all sufficiency in time of distress, and the good shepherd of my soul. I know in whatever circumstance He leads me that I have been made "complete" in Him. My one desire in life is to know Him and to love Him more. For He truly is the lover of my soul.
    Jesus Christ also healed me of Type 1 ("juvenile") diabetes (yes, I was on insulin and yes this was confirmed by my doctor who was a renowned endocrinologist in a university teaching center--he had NO explanation for this occurrence). That was over 30 years ago and I have been in excellent health since then--even going through two pregnancies without any S/S of diabetes.
    Last edit by VickyRN on Apr 22, '04
  11. by   FranEMTnurse
    I'm with you all the way on that one my friend. Did you read my earlier post? I gave a testimont on how I know He exists, and what He has done for me. It's post number 167
    Quote from VickyRN
    Jesus Christ became my Lord and Savior when I was 18 years old. What a profound change He brought about in my life! Without dispute, the biggest miracle is that of the new birth, being "born again." In the years following, He has become my best friend, my advocate, my all sufficiency in time of distress, and the good shepherd of my soul. I know in whatever circumstance He leads me that I have been made "complete" in Him. My one desire in life is to know Him and to love Him more. For He truly is the lover of my soul.
    Jesus Christ also healed me of Type 1 ("juvenile") diabetes (yes, I was on insulin and yes this was confirmed by my doctor who was a renowned endocrinologist in a university teaching center--he had NO explanation for this occurrence). That was over 30 years ago and I have been in excellent health since then--even going through two pregnancies without any S/S of diabetes.
    Last edit by FranEMTnurse on Apr 22, '04
  12. by   leslie :-D
    so as a non-Christ follower, how does one explain all the miracles he doesn't perform? how does one explain all the horrific tragedies that happen with children and all other innocent people?
  13. by   Jaaaman
    Quote from earle58
    so as a non-Christ follower, how does one explain all the miracles he doesn't perform? how does one explain all the horrific tragedies that happen with children and all other innocent people?
    'If there really were a God of love, the innocent wouldn't suffer'

    When we stop to carefully examine reality, we are forced to the conclusion that only one innocent ever suffered! Few of us can face this reality, until Jesus cleanses our deeply suppressed but dirty conscience. Only after that spiritual miracle dare we relax our frantic attempts to conceal and excuse and push from our minds the extent of our depravity. It is a devastating experience to have one's supposed goodness exposed by God's blinding purity. With every shred of pride within them shrieking in protest, Christians feel driven to a crushing conclusion: the moral gap between them and a serial killer is invisible, compared to the terrifying expanse separating even their best efforts from the infallible holiness of God.

    No clever argument, however, and no spiritual experience can hide one unavoidable fact: a holy God would yearn to wipe out every cause of pain. And if he eradicated everyone who has ever caused pain by selfishness, cheating, lying, gossiping or hurtful remarks, who would be left?

    'Suffering is God's fault!' we sneer, conveniently forgetting times our anger, greed and lies hurt others. Naturally, there is a degree of hurt we deem excusable, and for some suspicious reason the hurt we have inflicted happens to fall within the standard we arbitrarily set. It is like failing an exam and then moving the pass mark to make our score look good. A holy God could not be partner to such hypocrisy. To wipe out some people who cause suffering and spare you and me would make God guilty of gross injustice. We have each added to humanity's shame. If there is a God of love, the people he loves and longs to place in a pain-free world are the very ones who cause humanity's suffering.

    This question of innocence is central to the question of suffering. We are so far from being innocent that we owe our very existence to sin. If, for example, we traced our family tree far enough, we would probably each find an ancestor born as a result of sin - rape, unlawful incest, a despised pregnancy, and the like.

    Then, having consigned everyone to the sin bin, believers back flip, seizing the pretentious assertions of a man renowned for humility. Christ claimed an existence independent of human ancestry. (John 8:56-59; 17:5) If true, and if he subsequently lived a perfect life, he alone could be innocent in every conceivable sense. And we know this man suffered.

    He appeared as the uniquely perfect human who preached impossibly high standards, claimed they were God's requirements and actually lived them. Turning the cheek, loving his enemies, just as he had preached, he yielded to abuse and torture, somehow absorbing within his mangled body the horrific consequences of all humanity's sin.

    Humanity can boast one perfect Person. We killed him. Yet our only Innocent gladly suffered the injustice to free the guilty from suffering eternal justice. In this cataclysmic exchange, the Innocent and the guilty traded places, making it spiritually legal for his suffering to end your suffering. As incredible as it seems, this has ushered us to the brink of a new world where the longing deep within us will be met - deceit, abuse, and hurtful actions will be swallowed by goodness; misery will dissolve in endless joy.

    But temporary earthly pain continues for a wonderful reason. A paradise of harmony, trust, openness and love would quickly spoil if just one of its citizens acted remotely like we presently behave. To enter a perfect world without shattering its perfection, would require a personality transformation more radical than ever seen on earth. Through Jesus' intervention, God can perform this miracle and make us fit for such a world, but he won't abuse us by forcing a personality change upon us against our will. We must be willing to let God take our pet sins from us and, in his unlimited wisdom and love, rule every part of our lives.

    Each moment that God suppresses his explosive urge to extinguish evil, is a moment in which billions of us have yet another chance to come to our senses and let Jesus deliver us from our infatuation with sin. But the end of this period of grace is hurtling toward us. Soon all suffering will cease. All wrongdoing will be destroyed, along with everyone still caught in its deadly embrace.

    www.net-burst.net/hot/suffer.htm

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