Is this odd to you too?

txredheadnurse, BSN, RN · Feb 9, 2009

I'm wondering how long it has taken some of you to go from thinking of your loved one as a physical "shell" to regarding them more as a memory?

I can't say I have ever really considered my mother to be a memory only. There are times when I see a short auburn haired woman and I see Mom for just a split second or I smell her perfume and for just a second she is there again. It has been over 14 years since she died but her impact is still as profound on my life today as it was when she walked the earth.

When I shared this with someone a few years they responded with the cliche time heals. My answer to that is not really. What time does in regard to grief is decrease the frequency of times one feels it but the intensity remains the same no matter how long ago the loved one died. This has been my experience. I don't mind really. I look at this way: The greater the love, the greater the grief. Yes, it hurts but love that deep and sincere regardless of the nature of the relationship is worth the price. To me her love is more than a memory it is a part of me made flesh.

patrick1rn, MSN, RN, NP · Feb 9, 2009

I think this family was just doing what families do - holding on to some semblance of normalcy in the midst of shattering grief.
When my grandma died, we left all sorts of things in the casket w/ her. All of us knew that Nana wasn't 'there' anymore - it was more for us than for her. I put a bottle of nail polish in there, to remember one of my favorite memories of her. (Most of her years she belonged to a religion that didn't allow nail polish. Once she came to the realization that that didn't matter, she allowed herself the occasional flesh-toned nail polish. Once my grandfather (a preacher) walked in on her and my mom doing their nails, and asked them what they were doing. Nana's reply: "Sinning." )
When I deliver a fetal demise, we have a room on our floor where we keep the babies for a few hours while Mom/family are holding and saying goodbye. Sometimes they see baby once and are done, and sometimes they want to see him again - so we keep them there in order to bring them to the room more quickly.
When I am alone in that room with that baby doing footprints, pictures, and measurements, I treat him like he is alive. The parents would never know if I did otherwise but I can't do that. I don't even like putting him in the bucket to take to pathology if that's what family wants. And let me tell you, I've never done a set of footprints for parents of a dead baby where I wasn't shaking like a leaf on a tree.
All this to say, we hold to what we can of these folks because they were precious to us, and though we know their body is not their essence, it is all we have that is tangible.

That was touching. Thanks for sharing your story. Makes me even more of a pro life person.

NurseKatie08, MSN · Feb 11, 2009

i'm not 100% sure what you mean but i guess i'll explain what i mean.
i suppose for me, since my loss was not expected, it took me a long, long time. even though i saw the smoke rising from the cremation of his body, i didn't believe he wasn't there. even at his funeral. i KNEW he was dead in my brain, but inside my heart was breaking and did not believe it. i really, truly thought that night his memorial was held, that maybe this was all a sick joke and he was going to come out and say April Fool's or something. his casket was empty, with a big picture of him on top.... i still laid my hands on that casket and prayed, i don't remember for what.
i actually got a new cell phone this weekend and was unable to load my contacts. up until saturday night, his phone number was still programmed in my speed dial in my phone. i did not have the heart to hit the delete button.
i would call his phone after he died just to hear his voice, his mom didn't disconnect it for about a month. i just wanted to hear him talk. i knew he would never answer, but it was all i had. the voice on that message was something that made me feel like i was still close to him.
a few nights before he died, we went to the beach and had one of our famous sand fights. he got in my car and didn't wipe off his feet and got sand everywhere. and then just to make me mad, since it was a new car at the time, he made footprints on my windshield. i was madder then heck. after his death, those footprints meant so much to me that i had to ask my mother to please windex my car--i couldn't do it. i now have a tattoo of footprints in a heart on my belly. i think this was god's way of showing me that he puts people in your life for a reason, even only for a short time, and when they leave footprints on your heart... you are never, ever the same.
i suppose since i never got to hold him and feel his touch before he died that a physical aspect was sort of my unclosed door. i just wanted to look into his eyes one more time. and i knew i never could. so i suppose that my subconcious was trying to protect me.
i miss him like crazy. i went through many years of what if's, why me's, what now's. it is only now, as i have matured as an adult and have learned to truly love another man, that i remember his memory as only that. the memories before were so painful, even the happy ones... because i didn't ever want them to be anything but reality.

I still haven't had the heart to delete my dad's cell number from my phone. When I was in denial, I called it a good 2-3 times hoping he would pick up even though I knew in my heart he wouldn't.

Chaya, ASN, RN · Feb 11, 2009

I remember seeing a couple of articles over the last year or so concerning ways to make the funeral industry "greener". I don't remember too many of the details but it seems such practices as refrigerating the body before burial and releasing the body to a funeral home may not be legal requirements. Apparently there are organizations that advise the bereaved about actual requirements and help them plan for memorial services and burial without a conventional funeral home. In the article a number of bereaved family members were interviewed, saying that they found it comforting to be able to prepare the body themselves and conduct their own service. Anybody else remember seeing these articles?

Chaya

rph3664 · Feb 11, 2009

Via Netflix, I recently watched a documentary called "A Certain Kind of Death", about unclaimed bodies in L.A. County and how the death scene is processed and their belongings liquidated.

Amazing that people can go through their lives and literally have nobody who cares about them enough to realize they're missing.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Feb 12, 2009

Some people view that things that need to be done to a body afterard will still cause pain or take a toll on a persons soul. If death is imminent, then this family ought to get on the horn to their funeral director and make arrangements to have the body picked up immediately after expiration - they can also make their request not to embalm. I have seen FH's do this before.
Caroladybelle - just curious - Are people of jewish faith generally not organ donors?

It used to be forbidden to donate organs, yet now it is permitted as it is seen as a mitzvah - a spiritual good deed.

Not all Jews obey old customs. Technically tattoos and piercings are forbidden, as is "unnecessary surgery" such as some types of plastic surgery. Obviously, many people of Faith occasionaly have very "liberal" interpretations of those religious beliefs.

(Thoug, my Grammy had a fit over my double pierced ears in college).

allnurses Guide · Feb 12, 2009

My husband died 4 years ago and was cremated. His ashes sit on top of a bookcase in my bedroom and when I die, I have requested that our ashes be mixed together and scattered at our favorite spot together. One of the reasons I didn't bury him was that I felt that if I ever moved out of state, I would be leaving him behind. Now that I read this--I must be crazy?!?!?!

No, you aren't crazy. My dh died 10 years ago, I buried his ashes. My children and I go to the grave every so often, and talk and leave flowers and remember him. I put a double stone there, blank spot for my name later. (Although the stone carver put mine in the first time, my small kids freaked when we went to see the newly place stone. :madface: )

For some reason scattering ashes bothers me more.

diane227, LPN, RN · Feb 12, 2009

Someone said something about a natural burial. A natural burial is when they place your body out in the woods and allow the body to go through the natural process of decomposition. The body is not in a casket or other type of container. If you search the internet for natural burial you will find several sites indicating where this service is available. There are only a few states that have this type of land designated for natural burial. I am seriously considering having a natural burial when I die. Dust to dust.

lamazeteacher · Feb 12, 2009

In Judaism, we do not embalm bodies, nor do we autopsy them (unless required to by law, and even then, a Rabbi is to oversee that the body is treated respectfully and that all parts possible are returned to/with the body for burial). Bodies are seen to by a burial group, and are never left without someone in attendance. And they are supposed to buried before the sun sets on the body a second time. This is out of respect and to prevent desecration. They are wrapped in a plain linen shroud, no jewelry, no metal. Preferably no vault, and the coffin must have no metal parts - all must decay properly in nature and return to the dust of the earth, of which we were formed.
As far as not being in a cooler because one is "cold-natured", I do not know about that. Or refusing embalming because of "needles".

Muslims obey some of the same rules.

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The above pertains to those Jews of Orthodox beliefs, and are usually the ideal for them. If the Sabbath falls before the second sunset, it takes a day longer..... as digging a grave is work, and no work is done on the Sabbath, according to their belief. Those regulations were started in Israel, the south of which is a very hot place, where decay is fast. Reform Jews may or may not follow those beliefs. I practice Reform Judaism.

I'm concerned that no social worker or grief counselor is mentioned in this post. The family was predicting their feelings before the death happened, which could mean they accepted the inevitable, or they were still in denial, opposing what could happen and phantacizing the reaction of the patient. It doen't seem that a "living will" had been accomplished, which would have spared them a lot of misery due to the sense that they needed to second guess what the patient would want.. ...

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Feb 13, 2009

There have been places that have objected to setting up cemetaries that cater to those that wish to be buried without all the traditional vaults, embalming, etc. The usual object is that the bodies decaying "au natural" might put large amounts of bacteria and byproducts of decay into the local water supply by leaching through.

The irony of this, is despite vaults and preservatives, bodies will still deteriorate and byproducts will leak into the environment. So instead of natural byproducts, one will have natural byproducts plus all the chemicals used as preservatives, plus all the chemicals involved in those fancy caskets/vaults leaching into the local water supply. Eventially many of those containers leak.

As someone who has seen some of those bodies disinterred, many embalmed bodies look and are much nastier to handle than one that was not embalmed. There have been major exposes' about the funeral care industry, and that many of those things done to preserve bodies really don't do that good a job.

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Feb 13, 2009

just wondering if anyone has heard of this, whether it is a religious ritual, or if the family is just not in reality.

my patient's family said that they do not want their mother sent to the cooler when she dies because "she is very cold-natured." they also said they don't want her embalmed because they don't want her "stuck with any more needles."

um, hello? it's just going to be her shell in the cooler!

anyone ever heard of this before?

this makes me wonder if they might be of the bahá'í faith. i pre-planned funeral arrangements for a bahá'í lady, and she insisted on several things: no refrigeration, no embalming or autopsy (no poking), and burial within 24 hours. i tried to explain that burial within 24 hours of death is not possible due to the legal requirement of a burial permit to be obtained, but she wouldn't hear it.