NP's calling themselves MD's

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · May 17, 2008

Does anyone else get as peeved as I do when nurse practitioners and/or physicians assistants call themselves doctors? Several of the NP's and PA's in the ER clinic where I work do this and it makes me grit my teeth each time I hear this. All the pts. call them "Dr." because that is how they represent themselves to the public. Am I being overly sensitive? I would never represent myself as an RN because I AM NOT ONE! After a really, long, crappy day, I was reprimanded by a pt. because I refered to the NP as Miss Smith and not Dr. Smith! The pt. actually told me I was being disrespectful by not saying "Dr. Smith" when speaking of her! And once again I explained to a pt., Miss Smith is not an MD. Then I get the "deer in the headlights" look from the pt. when I try to explain nurse practitioner. I know in the grand scheme of things this probably falls far but ..... Any advice or comments?

I've never seen this done, so I can't feel your pain exactly. However, it ought to be brought to the attention of your personnel department or ethics committee, or something like that, as this is a legal issue, not a pet peeve.

ANYONE representing himself or herself as a medical physician who does not hold a doctor of medicine license is committing fraud, and it's not in the hopsital's best interest to allow them to continue. If the hospital is aware that this is going on, then they are setting themselves up for a tasty lawsuit when Mr. Jones is preparing to sue Miss Smith, thinking he was being treated by an actual MD, when he was not.

Beyond that, stay well clear of it, except to continue to let your patients know that Miss Smith is an NP, and Mr. Doe is a PA.

**afterthought: the exception to the above "doctor" title is, of course, for a nurse who holds a PhD in nursing...and is actually entitled to use the title "doctor". I've known several Dr. Smiths who are actually nurses, but hold doctoral degrees. Still, none of them ever present themselves as an MD.

TazziRN, RN · May 17, 2008

Bugs me to no end when this happens!! When I was in the ER and I asked a pt who their dr was, I would ofen hear "Dr. Nancy" or "Dr. Laura." Turns out they were PAs in the clinic. When I corrected the pt I would get a shrug and would hear "That's what everyone calls him/her."

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · May 17, 2008

I've never heard that.

staightshooter · May 17, 2008

Hey,

New to the forum and came across your threads. I am not actually heard any of the NPs or PAs refer to themselves as MDs, but as you pointed out, many times the patients are for whatever reason mislead to think that these medical professionals are MDs.

I think this happens for a couple of reasons. First, the NP or the PA is the only medical professional these patients see, especially in very small outlying communities. Many of these clinics in small towns don't even have doctors so they hire PAs and NPs to fill the bill. I suppose that since they do many of the things that would normally fall to a practicing physician in other cases, they might come to think of themselves as MDs and of course they don't bother to correct the patients when the patients call them doctor.

The second point is that in some cases doctors who work with PAs seem to think of them more as their equals whereas many doctors will think of nurses as close to doormats.

One reason for this might be that the PA program was started by doctors for their benefit. Since the PAs are taught by MDs they get automatically get more respect from the MDs than an RN would ever hope to get.

I do find this annoying because diploma nurses and BSNs actually have more education that PAs. Our local PA program (notice that these programs are very few and far between) is only 28 months long and yet PAs are suppose to be able to think and perform like the MDs who have close to a decade of study and training before being allowed to practice. Scarry isn't it?

On the flip side I have gone to doctor's offices where the PAs duties are little more than those of a medical assistant, so it just depends upon the practice/situation.

Straightshooter

wooh, BSN, RN · May 17, 2008

I do find this annoying because diploma nurses and BSNs actually have more education that PAs. Our local PA program (notice that these programs are very few and far between) is only 28 months long and yet PAs are suppose to be able to think and perform like the MDs who have close to a decade of study and training before being allowed to practice. Scarry isn't it?
On the flip side I have gone to doctor's offices where the PAs duties are little more than those of a medical assistant, so it just depends upon the practice/situation.
Straightshooter

I think you might be confusing Physician Assistants and Medical Assistants.:) A PA practices at a similar level to a Nurse Practitioner, generally with a Masters Degree. An MA practices at a similar level to Nursing Assistant, no degree needed.

merellis2009 · May 17, 2008

Reminds me of the other day when I was trying to reach a MD to update on his patient condition while he was at the office. The receptionist said "I can let you speak with his medical assistant." when I said "I'm a RN at XXX hospital taking care of XXX patient trying to update him on the status per his request." So I get the voicemail of this medical assistant who says "This is the voicemail of Jane and Kathy, nurses of Doctor such and such..."

ARGH! They're calling themselves nurses when they're not! That REALLY irritates me!

hbgwan, LPN, LVN · May 17, 2008

maybe this is hijacking a bit but i have a question that has something to do with the OP. obviously we call MDs "dr." what then do we call NPs who have their PhD? i mean, they have earned the title of "dr.", too. but to the average patient who doesn't see the difference between a PhD in nursing and an MD, a doctor is a doctor is a doctor is a doctor.

one would think it would be less confusing to leave "dr." to MDs. obviously we know the difference but we're probably in the minority. any thoughts on this? i've quite often wondered about this.

hbgwan

scribblerpnp · May 17, 2008

I am a nurse practitioner and work in a private office. Whenever the staff makes an appointment with a pt for me they usually say, "Would you like to see our nurse practitioner, Xsss?" When I introduce myself to the pt for the first few times of them coming to me I always say, "I am Xsss, the nurse practitioner."

When some of (not all,) my pts see me out in public or talk to me in the office they call me Dr. Xxxx (last name). When I first started working I corrected them, but I actually had a few pts get a little upset when I corrected them and they would say, "I'm being respectful. You are the person who fully takes care of my child. You are her doctor." So now, I mention it the first few visits, and after that let them call me what they want. My nametag says NP, the office staff ID me as an NP, everything in my office with my name on it has NP. I don't feel like I am trying to pull one over on the public.

Those that call me Dr. Xxxx, know I am an NP. It is frustration to me inwardly, but I'm not going to continually correct those that are doing it out of respect, not due to lack of knowledge of my role (something which I cover with every new pt encounter).

I've also had some pts trying to ID me to the staff over the phone when making appointments as the nurse who can write for drugs (which is just fine)!

What do I like to be called? By parents, I like them to call me by my first name, the kids to call me Miss Xssss, (my first name)

Oh, I am working on my doctorate right now. Once I am done, at my medical office, I will not go by Dr because I feel it can be misleading in that atmosphere, but at my college where I work, my students will definately call me Dr! And if they come to shadow me at work, they will call me that there as well when speaking to me, but will still ID me as Miss, Xxxx when speaking to a pt/ family.

justme1972 · May 17, 2008

There is an entire active thread on this already....however, your term in your thread title is incorrect.

MD is a MEDICAL DOCTOR and is a graduate of a medical school.

The term DOCTOR is for anyone who has achieved the doctorate level of education, which can be not only a medical doctor, but a dentist, a nurse practioner, or college professor.

It is a LEGAL term that is not exclusive to the healthcare industry.

justme1972 · May 17, 2008

After a really, long, crappy day, I was reprimanded by a pt. because I refered to the NP as Miss Smith and not Dr. Smith! The pt. actually told me I was being disrespectful by not saying "Dr. Smith" when speaking of her! And once again I explained to a pt., Miss Smith is not an MD.

Why does the fact that a patient made a MISTAKE bother you so much? Did you actually hear the NP tell the patient that she was a physician instead of a Nurse Practioner?

I would wager that you didn't. Be careful not to assume.

This is a common error that patients make b/c they don't work in the industry, and they are not familiar with the different types of degrees, etc....the only way to correct this is to educate the public.

The majority of healthcare professionals disclose their correct title upon entering the room and introducing themselves.

Trauma Columnist · May 17, 2008

I'm an advanced practice nurse in a large nephrology practice. I see dialysis patients 3-4 times per month and the MD sees them once per month. The patients know that I'm not a physician nor have I ever identified myself as such. However, many of my patients, especially my male veterans, do call me "doc." They KNOW I'm not a physician but it is a term of respect. When I'm out in public and run into patients, they frequently greet me by my first name or the title "doc."

There is nothing wrong with this. I am not misrepresenting myself as a physician. I guess I don't see the problem here.