New nurses wanted. - page 9

I have just read a post in a Nursing Specialties forum on Staff Development that makes reference to the need to recognize and nurture new nurses because the nursing-eat-their-young attitude is so... Read More

  1. Visit  LadyFree28 profile page
    0
    Quote from PatMac10,SN
    BrandonLPN,

    Your quote:
    "I'm not sure I understand. My whole point is that what the "nurses eat their young" crowd define as "mean" and what I define as "mean" are two different things."

    Is saying the same thing that Metal Monk was, it's all a matter of perspective. Different people will see and interpret things differently according to their position, experiences, and such.
    ^When speaking of perspective, one should know what place it's coming from...That's what a lot of nurses are posting, including myself.

    For example, I work in critical care. I'm a new grad on orientation. I was not able to be cleared to be a two nurse person check. I let the nurse I was precepting with (my preceptor was not here that day) know about it; her response was "let me find someone else," and rushed away. I went in and helped the nurse who reported off to us on one pt and helped out, and was getting a great experience. The charge nurse was available and she took me under her wing, while the precepting nurse had to catch up, which she did, an hour later. She apologized to me; she felt that her curt tone could've been offensive to me. I told her it wasn't; she needed to give the med in a timely manner, so my perception was never her being disrespectful or "mean." Our day was hectic; that particular pt we had declined in her status. Her timely manner helped when this particular pt went down. Her time management and my willingness to step aside at that moment helped make sure another pt's needs were net while we were able to focus on a unstable pt, and she was able to precept adequately to my needs.

    Another new grad or new hire nurse would've thought that her focus on getting her work done was rude or hurtful. Sometimes when you are at the beginning of orienting as a new nurse or in a new role or specialty, learn to step aside, be prepared to reveal if you are unsure; take the reins of vulnerability in a accountable way; most people will take you under their wing as soon as you make that spiel.
    II can only speak with my experience. I've been "new" numerous times in my 30+ years in my life-there will be plenty of "new" experiences. I've learned a style that has gotten net positive results, by advocating for myself from a place of security, even if I'm secure that I know NOTHING, I'm assertive enough to gain the experience I need, and have an open mind. You are NEVER going to know everything; nursing and healthcare is not designed for that.

    I have been a preceptor. My first focus is on learning styles; the most focus is on how well one can advocate for yourself. How comfortable is one to admit that they need to look things up? Need to reread things over and over?? Write things down? Need confidence in speaking to pts doctors and peers?? I appreciate the ones who are unsure and can admit it; because then the orientee can move on from there, and put it to rest and flourish as a competent nurse. I've seen it; I have also seen ones who choose not to, and will attempt to throw people under the bus, refuse to take responsibility, lie, and commit fraud to not do things the right way because of their egocentricism.


    Once one is active and committed to collaborating that knowledge with your "crusty" peers, the better the torch of their expertise will be passed to the next generation. That's how I interpreted GrnTea's post.

    Sometimes you have to put your vulnerability on your sleeve or set it aside to understand a different perspective, even if its not comfortable. We are dealing with people at a vulnerable place when we appear at the bedside...it's best for one to get in touch with it, grow from it, and leave it somewhere. Because when you are at that bedside, that clinic, that home, on the other side of the telephone, or in the classroom, the role is ADVOCATE, and it that role is empowering; it's best to be empowered than to feel useless or self-defeated, it will not do patients and their families as well as the NURSE ANY good.
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  3. Visit  metal_m0nk profile page
    1
    Quote from Esme12
    However there are those that are from the "Everybody wins" generation that don't realize that criticism alone isn't negative and no one is going to praise every thing you do.
    Let's not try to cast too many generational stones...

    I'm old enough and learned enough to know that the Boomers were termed the "Me Generation," characterized by self-involvement and a "me first" attitude.

    Also, the notion that "everybody wins" was taught to the generation you describe by generations before. The notion was not independently imagined by the children of that era, but orchestrated by teachers, administrators, psychologists, and scholars of human development from previous eras. Why then is it such a big freakin' surprise now that those teachings were adopted and integrated into their world views as adults???

    That's like indoctrinating a child in the Catholic religion and then criticizing them for not espousing the tenets of atheism as adults...We reap what we sow...In terms of abdicating all responsibility for something for which the responsibility is obviously shared, I can think of no better example than the rallying cry against the "Everybody Wins" generation that you have so succinctly presented here.
    Last edit by metal_m0nk on Feb 26, '13
    PatMac10,RN likes this.
  4. Visit  joanna73 profile page
    3
    To present an example: During my final semesters as a student, I had OR training and training on an 80 bed med surg unit. The nurses for the most part were great, but I'm also a self starter. From the beginning, the expectations were clear: take the initiative or you're not staying. They were willing to help, but no one was overly friendly, or willing to hold my hand. Why? They had a job to do, and I had to prove myself. Certainly, respect goes both ways, but the responsibility ultimately lies with you, the newbie to demonstrate the willingness and the initiative to learn and fit in with the culture of that unit, not the other way around. Some people are mean and impatient, but for the most part, this isn't the case. It's a matter of perception.
    nursel56, Rose_Queen, and GrnTea like this.
  5. Visit  Swellz profile page
    0
    Quote from joanna73
    To present an example: During my final semesters as a student, I had OR training and training on an 80 bed med surg unit. The nurses for the most part were great, but I'm also a self starter. From the beginning, the expectations were clear: take the initiative or you're not staying. They were willing to help, but no one was overly friendly, or willing to hold my hand. Why? They had a job to do, and I had to prove myself. Certainly, respect goes both ways, but the responsibility ultimately lies with you, the newbie to demonstrate the willingness and the initiative to learn and fit in with the culture of that unit, not the other way around. Some people are mean and impatient, but for the most part, this isn't the case. It's a matter of perception.
    I'm with you. I have some fellow students who, as seniors, are less concerned with learning and more concerned with how early they can get out of clinical. Why would anyone be invested in teaching me if I am not invested in learning? I think there are bad reputations on both sides of the "new nurse-old nurse" line, but it is up to the individual, like you said
  6. Visit  metal_m0nk profile page
    0
    Quote from joanna73
    To present an example: During my final semesters as a student, I had OR training and training on an 80 bed med surg unit. The nurses for the most part were great, but I'm also a self starter. From the beginning, the expectations were clear: take the initiative or you're not staying. They were willing to help, but no one was overly friendly, or willing to hold my hand. Why? They had a job to do, and I had to prove myself. Certainly, respect goes both ways, but the responsibility ultimately lies with you, the newbie to demonstrate the willingness and the initiative to learn and fit in with the culture of that unit, not the other way around. Some people are mean and impatient, but for the most part, this isn't the case. It's a matter of perception.
    I don't remember ever saying that anyone had to be overly friendly or hand-holding. I do remember saying that I can see how having to contend with that expectation could be frustrating.

    When more than one person is involved in the success or failure of a particular undertaking, then it is flippant to state that the responsibility for success or failure lies squarely on the shoulders of one. If that were true, why bother tasking experienced nurses with precepting new nurses at all? How useless that would be if their input was (as you say) ultimately ineffectual. In reality, they share the responsibility. Why? Because those experienced nurses were given a job to do, and part of that job includes mentorship.

    I agree that the newbie has ultimate control over his/her actions. Absolutely. Point blank. He or she must demonstrate willingness and initiative to learn and to fit into the culture of the unit. Without question. But it doesn't end there. Some people think of themselves as victims even in the face of as much support as can be reasonably expected, but for the most part, that isn't the case. It is indeed a matter of perception.
  7. Visit  joanna73 profile page
    2
    I'm not being flippant at all. While experienced nurses are expected to mentor, ultimately, the success lies with the student. He/ she needs to be willing to learn and demonstrate initiative, otherwise the teaching won't be very successful. I gave that example for a reason, because in a nutshell, had I not been willing to learn, those nurses would have cut me loose. Their first priority was their patients, especially in settings such as acute, OR, ER. There is no time to worry if you're offending a newbie/ student in these settings. There are other priorities. Sink or swim.
    Rose_Queen and GrnTea like this.
  8. Visit  PatMac10,RN profile page
    3
    Quote from joanna73
    I'm not being flippant at all. While experienced nurses are expected to mentor, ultimately, the success lies with the student. He/ she needs to be willing to learn and demonstrate initiative, otherwise the teaching won't be very successful. I gave that example for a reason, because in a nutshell, had I not been willing to learn, those nurses would have cut me loose. Their first priority was their patients, especially in settings such as acute, OR, ER. There is no time to worry if you're offending a newbie/ student in these settings. There are other priorities. Sink or swim.
    People not wanting to learn is a whole other thing in general. I know people are busy, I don't expect them to stop in the middle of a code to explain things to me etc...... I don't expect them to do much talking to me period during a critical time..... I get it. You've got to take care of business first. The argument is that you don't have to be nasty to emphasize that you will have to explain things a little later. When i was precepting on the CVICU, my preceptor, who was known for saying what she feels, was great at just looking at me and saying, I'm not going to be able to explain very much right now until we get this pt. stable and when we get time later we can talk about everything. She said what she had to say in 5 secs and we carried in worth no problems at all. She was shift supervisor and awesome.

    Another point is that individuals can't be overly sensitive in a field such as nursing I general. You'll get you emotions torn to pieces in nursing if you "wear them on your sleeve". I don't go to work thinking that I'm just going to have a jolly good time every moment and that ill get along with everyone, bc people are different. I do expect for mutual respect to be in play when I work.
  9. Visit  workinmomRN2012 profile page
    3
    Quote from PatMac10,SN
    I don't expect them to do much talking to me period during a critical time..... I get it. You've got to take care of business first. The argument is that you don't have to be nasty to emphasize that you will have to explain things a little later. I'm not going to be able to explain very much right now until we get this pt. stable and when we get time later we can talk about everything. She said what she had to say in 5 secs and we carried in worth no problems at all.

    I do expect for mutual respect to be in play when I work.
    In a nutshell, this is exactly what us new nurses deserve. Everyone deserves this respect.
    nisteber, GrnTea, and metal_m0nk like this.
  10. Visit  metal_m0nk profile page
    0
    Quote from joanna73
    I'm not being flippant at all. While experienced nurses are expected to mentor, ultimately, the success lies with the student. He/ she needs to be willing to learn and demonstrate initiative, otherwise the teaching won't be very successful. I gave that example for a reason, because in a nutshell, had I not been willing to learn, those nurses would have cut me loose. Their first priority was their patients, especially in settings such as acute, OR, ER. There is no time to worry if you're offending a newbie/ student in these settings. There are other priorities. Sink or swim.
    Hmmm....

    Perhaps it truly is a very rare nurse indeed (or person in general) who is skilled at not only prioritizing their patient's needs, but also managing the rigors of mentorship with grace and respect.

    This discussion has made me appreciate my preceptor even more (if that is even possible).
  11. Visit  PatMac10,RN profile page
    0
    Quote from metal_m0nk

    Hmmm....

    Perhaps it truly is a very rare nurse indeed (or person in general) who is skilled at not only prioritizing their patient's needs, but also managing the rigors of mentorship with grace and respect.

    This discussion has made me appreciate my preceptor even more (if that is even possible).
    I am wondering the same thing metal monk. I feel the same way about my preceptor.
  12. Visit  Esme12 profile page
    4
    Quote from metal_m0nk
    That may be true. But that's no excuse for bad behavior. The only thing a person can control is their own reaction. If someone chooses to react poorly when other options exist, they can and should be held responsible for that.



    Experienced nurses may or may not have much control over administrative decisions and process, but that's not what some of us are talking about here. We're talking about individual behavior, which the experienced nurses have ultimate control over (if they honestly don't have ultimate control over their own behavior, then they probably should not be entrusted with the lives of others - so I will assume that they do).

    Much as he/she might like to try, not even the experienced nurse can legitimately blame administration for his/her behavior, so why should I?
    I agree it doesn't excuse bad behavior. I don't tolerate bad behavior......but I also believe that there is a generation of everybody wins that cannot take any criticism and believe that if they don't get a standing ovation for just arriving at work need to realize that in the real world this just ins't possible any more.

    I see this in my children generation that children are very seldom taught how to just buck up and move forward.

    This is just my opinion....as humble as it is.....
    ShyeoftheTiger, poppycat, joanna73, and 1 other like this.
  13. Visit  metal_m0nk profile page
    0
    Quote from Esme12
    I agree it doesn't excuse bad behavior. I don't tolerate bad behavior......but I also believe that there is a generation of everybody wins that cannot take any criticism and believe that if they don't get a standing ovation for just arriving at work need to realize that in the real world this just ins't possible any more.
    Yes, there was a pervasive "everybody wins" indoctrination of children at one time. Some of this still exists in varying degrees.

    However, so seldom do the people who rally cry against the "Everbody Wins" generation ever acknowledge which generation(s) were actually handing out the trophies.

    That's the problem I see here.
  14. Visit  PatMac10,RN profile page
    0
    Quote from Esme12
    I agree it doesn't excuse bad behavior. I don't tolerate bad behavior......but I also believe that there is a generation of everybody wins that cannot take any criticism and believe that if they don't get a standing ovation for just arriving at work need to realize that in the real world this just ins't possible any more.

    I see this in my children generation that children are very seldom taught how to just buck up and move forward.

    This is just my opinion....as humble as it is.....
    Esme

    I can agree with your statement. More people in general, now days, seem to have an exaggerated sense of entitlement. This is not the sole cause of "Nurses eating their young"/workplace bullying though. There are most definitely multiple factors from both sides of the "fence" that contribute to this issue. Good point though!


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