NA's not professionals - page 7

I was the recipient of a complaint yesterday from another employee. An NA told me she had been called off before her shift and told on the phone that instead of having her work, the floor would run... Read More

  1. by   smk1
    Quote from StanleyRW
    While you may be certainly correct, it is the training, not the degree, that gives the nurse that boost. And the environment. There ARE places in the world where aides/tech do just what a nurse does and a new grad with a shiny BSN is absolutely less trained than a CNA and less useful. An experienced nurse is just a CNA with more technical knowledge and responsibility.

    This stupid argument has been going on forever. BSN's assuming they were better than ADN's or Diploma nurses. CNA's think they are better than Home Health Aides. Doctor's think they are better than everyone. It's elitist crap.

    As far as saying I shouldn't get easily offended or I would be a bad nurse. LOL. My patience extends to patients and their family. Supposed mature and 'educated' adult coworkers get only the consideration they show. Just because I am in nursing school doesn't mean I'm going to be a docile sheep. Maybe that's why male aides and nurses don't have quite the same problem with respect from male doctors as many females I know do. Shrug.

    By the way, if anyone choose to be elitist to my face, I may not slap them as I am no criminal, but I would dress them down, put them in their place, shut them up and move on.

    Best DON I ever had was a Diploma nurse lol. Worst one had a MSN. *Shrug*
    How can a job that takes a portion of the workload from someone else be deemed just as "hard" as the job of the person who is still held responsible for the totality of the work that they do as well as the work of the former mentioned person? If nursing is a 10 slice pizza and a CNA takes 3 slices of the pizza away, the nurse still has to finish off the other 7 slices, while still retaining the responsibility for the 3 slices the CNA took. CNA's are valuable and I think there is no reason to deliberately offend other people just because you can, but you also cannot equate the job of a CNA with the job of a nurse.
  2. by   RN4Nascar
    Quote from StanleyRW
    Lol.

    First off I said an experienced CNA was better than a shiny new grad BSN. It's true. New grads are not up to par. Not their fault.

    I disagree very much. No disrespect to CNAs. Not up to par huh? Well I dont know where you work or go to Nursing school but all the new grads I met and have graduated with are very well up to par.
    So no its not true. And who are you to judge them as not up to par, you havent even finished Nursing school yet. You have NO idea whats coming.
  3. by   itsmyturn
    Once again, it is not about the title you hold, but how willing you are to become a team member that is willing to put everything to make the "whole" better. So what if the CNA does not know as much as the LPN and so what if the RN has had more schooling than the LPN and the DR. thinks he is God. Isn't that the way it is suppose to be because one person can't manage all the tasks known by each title?

    If my patient's blood pressure goes up because the care team is sitting outside his door preaching and numbering the pions they work with, I am going to find another place to work where everyone goes by the title "guys and girls", doesn't mind helping clean up a patient if someone else is busy, apologizes when feelings are hurt and when the day is done, can stand in a group and give high fives for the day we completed because we were the team we were trained to be.
  4. by   RN4Nascar
    Its funny I have never come across that at my job. Thankfully, I work with a great group of people, we dont really do the Im this and Shes that...our titles are respected, but we all do the same things within our protocols. Nurses help clean pts, titles go out the window when it comes to getting thru a shift.
    Most of the Drs are really cool, good to their patients and are funny to work with lol.
  5. by   cardiacRN2006
    Quote from StanleyRW


    Fourth. Disrespect? I joined the military so I could say whatever I wanted? As far as your husband in GW1, good I respect veterans, but insofar as violence goes, you are married to a violent man. Violence is violence justified or not. Terrorism or war. Crime or 'justice.' Being married to a man that served to protect freedom and then trying to cow me into your way of thinking could be called disrespectful.

    Ok, now I see that you are totally irrational and completely insane. I'm sorry I played into your ignorance. I'm sorry you call yourself a vet. What a shame to honorable men.


    Yes, probably against TOS, but completely justified and correct. You are a fool.
  6. by   Virgo_RN
    A CNA's job is a hard job. At the end of my shift, my entire body would ache from head to toe. It was exhausting. I remember getting a little more than annoyed when a nurse would track me down in another patient's room to tell me that a patient needed a sandwich or oral care or a bed change. I remember thinking "In the time it took for you to track me down, couldn't you have already done it, since you were there anyway?".

    I remember during my CNA orientation, one of the CNAs orienting me told me "Some of the nurses will try and get you to do their work for them, but we have our own work to do.". Sorry, but part of a CNA's work is to do tasks that have been delegated to them by the nurse.

    Now that I am a nurse, I am embarrassed by some of the things I thought about nurses. I've found that most CNAs have absolutely no clue how hard the nurses work. I recently had a lab tech who is a first year nursing student undermine me in front of a patient and their family. I could only chuckle and think to myself "I cannot WAIT until you are a nurse!".

    But there is one thing that I always appreciated when I was a CNA, and I keep it in mind as a nurse. That was being treated with respect and as a member of the same team.
    CNAs are not members of a profession. That is not to say that a good CNA is not more valuable than their weight in gold, but no, not a profession, IMO.
    Last edit by Virgo_RN on Nov 17, '07
  7. by   Athenas83
    I'm a student and having almost finished my first semester, I have realized that CNA training is a cake-walk in comparison to what I have ahead of me. No, it doesn't make RNs, LPNs better, which of course goes without saying.

    This dude HAS to be kidding. If not, he's an idiot (sorry, no way around it), and I really hope he never ever becomes a nurse because he has a ton of work ahead of him and I fear he's simply not smart enough.
  8. by   TiredMD
    For three years before medical school (and all through it as well), I was a CNA. I did the nursing home thing, med/surg, float pool, eventually settled into an ER at my last job. The work is brutal, emotionally and physically. It was made worse by nurses who treated you like an indentured laborer, or that you're "strong as an ox, and half as smart". Like any other CNA here, I've got all the same stories about disrespect and abuse and verbal putdowns from the nurses I worked for. And you know, for all the times as a medical student and now resident that I've been put-down by my attending surgeons, it still wasn't as bad as being a CNA.

    Can a nurse do the job of a CNA? Technically yes. Can they do it very well? Unlikely, if they're not doing it every day. It's one thing to say, "I can wake up a client, get them dressed, brush their teeth, and feed them breakfast." It's quite another to do that for 10 different clients in under an hour-and-a-half. I think it's a little foolish to assume that anyone could walk into that role and thrive, simply because they've been to a few years of college.

    What I find amusing is that, for the RNs here who are trying to "prove" that being a CNA isn't really a "profession" (whatever you want that to mean): My cohorts in the world of physicians make the same arguments about nursing. This is a ridiculous conversation there, and ridiculous here as well.
  9. by   pagandeva2000
    I think that being a CNA was a physically brutal job. I was bone tired at the end of the day, when I worked at a nursing home. I was fortunate, I did not work with disrespectful nurses very often. Most of them valued my input. But, it was still a brutal job. I was ever so grateful to start working in a clinic, where the back-breaking work was taken away from me. Somehow, though, I always paid close attention to the responsibilities of different disciplines, and when I decided to become an LPN, it was a careful deliberate decision.

    Now, being a nurse, I find that I am more mentally exhausted, and it affects me physically (too tired to have a real life for myself). I have to gather information and make decisions based on priority rather than emotion, being pulled at from everyone from the doctor, the manager, the CNAs as well as the patients. I wish I can do more for the patients, and that frustrates me to no end. I deal with a poor population with cultural differences, language and cognitive barriers, and somehow, I have only a few minutes to try and get the point across to them while teaching in my clinic.

    Now, I certainly see how a good aide is their weight in gold pounds based on working with some of them. Those that work well, we try and show them how we value them. They have a hard job. And, I need their help. Period. I think that we should use other words than what has been expressed in order to bring up their self esteem. Heck, even nurses are disregarded and disrespected. Imagine how they must feel. While I can comprehend the adjectives and such, it still does not always make the CNA feel better to hear constantly that they are less than professional, based on their understanding of the word. That supervisor should have just said that she needed three RNs and that was it.
  10. by   smk1
    Quote from TiredMD
    For three years before medical school (and all through it as well), I was a CNA. I did the nursing home thing, med/surg, float pool, eventually settled into an ER at my last job. The work is brutal, emotionally and physically. It was made worse by nurses who treated you like an indentured laborer, or that you're "strong as an ox, and half as smart". Like any other CNA here, I've got all the same stories about disrespect and abuse and verbal putdowns from the nurses I worked for. And you know, for all the times as a medical student and now resident that I've been put-down by my attending surgeons, it still wasn't as bad as being a CNA.

    Can a nurse do the job of a CNA? Technically yes. Can they do it very well? Unlikely, if they're not doing it every day. It's one thing to say, "I can wake up a client, get them dressed, brush their teeth, and feed them breakfast." It's quite another to do that for 10 different clients in under an hour-and-a-half. I think it's a little foolish to assume that anyone could walk into that role and thrive, simply because they've been to a few years of college.
    What I find amusing is that, for the RNs here who are trying to "prove" that being a CNA isn't really a "profession" (whatever you want that to mean): My cohorts in the world of physicians make the same arguments about nursing. This is a ridiculous conversation there, and ridiculous here as well.
    No one is saying that CNA work is not taxing physically and that you aren't busy as a CNA. But you know what, I feel pretty comfortable saying that the vast majority of nurses could do the job of a CNA for the day without too many problems simply because many are ALREADY doing it in addition to other duties, have done it in the past as a CNA or a nursing student. If the nurse didn't have to crush 12 meds and give them individually to one patient along with an assessment that needs to be charted, fight with the pyxis that doesn't recognize your finger prints half of the time, wonder why all sorts of meds are ordered when the chart says they are allergic to said medications so you have to go and clarify this issue with the patient, teach the patient down the hall how to use the bed and t controls for the umpteenth time, check on another patient whose IV refuses to stop becoming occluded and beeping, trouble shoot the SCD's that aren't working correctly. Figure out what happened to ordered medications that have yet to show up anywhere on the floor and are soon to be considered a "late" administration. Try and appease your other patient who is ticked off because she wants to eat something, but she is still NPO or on a clear diet. Then go recheck vitals because the CNA (hopefully) has let you know that there were some abnormals, oh yeah and get a decent assessment in and charted on all 4-8 patients that you have, bu then you can't get a free computer because they are all taken. THen you get called because half of your patient are all having 9/10 pain, when they said they were fine when you asked just 15 minutes ago, the med room is out of saline flushes and then you walk by your box and see a nice little pile of new orders just for you! So you think you might get to discharge 1 or 2 people but no one is available to pick them up until after 5 pm, and even though they are well enough for discharge they somehow need the magical meat cutting properties of the nurses and CNA's, and need someone to bring them hot tea every 30 minutes. Then you head down the hall because you finally see a free computer that you can chart at and you overhear a doctor in the room with one of your patients telling her "of course the nurses should be getting you food! I'll take care of that right away!" when this is the same patient that they doctor did not advance the diet for until maybe 5 minutes before the breakfast trays arrived on the unit. (GRRR!) so basically you look bad when it isn't your fault, but you think "screw it" and move on to log into the computer which, of course, decides to freeze up. At which point you see the wife of one of your patients making her way towards you with what can only be another printout from WEBMD about her husbands dx and you just want to run off screaming rather than have every decision you and the doctors have made second guessed for the next 20 minutes, but you grin and bear it and try to be "therapeutic" and remember that hospitalization is stressful for families and blah blah blah. You appease her for the time being and off you go to recheck pain levels for all of the patients you gave pain meds to awhile ago, only to see the transport tech showing up about 45 minutes early to take one of your patients down for a procedure, and so the list goes on and on and on and on and on.
  11. by   UM Review RN
    Quote from TiredMD

    What I find amusing is that, for the RNs here who are trying to "prove" that being a CNA isn't really a "profession" (whatever you want that to mean): My cohorts in the world of physicians make the same arguments about nursing. This is a ridiculous conversation there, and ridiculous here as well.
    You're joking, right?

    Again, IMO this is not a discussion about semantics, this is a discussion that has its roots in the "invisibility" of nursing. Even MDs have no clue as to what we do or why RNs are indeed professionals.

    It's shameful.
  12. by   TiredMD
    Quote from SMK1
    No one is saying that CNA work is not taxing physically and that you aren't busy as a CNA. But you know what, I feel pretty comfortable saying that the vast majority of nurses could do the job of a CNA for the day without too many problems simply because many are ALREADY doing it in addition to other duties, have done it in the past as a CNA or a nursing student.
    I know you think that, that's my point. Most docs think they could do the job of an RN without any particular difficulty. Whether it's factually true or not is irrelavent. This whole notion of "I can do your job and mine, no problem" is nothing more than a weapon used to denigrate your coworkers.

    I get it, your job is hard. Great, mine too, that's not the point I'm trying to make. All I'm saying is this: It's sad to see nurses, who have a long history of getting crapped on by physicians, then turn around and use the exact same specious arguments to put down CNAs. I guess it really does roll down hill, eh?
  13. by   flashpoint
    Last edit by flashpoint on Nov 17, '07 : Reason: going to ponder this a bit...I posted too soon!

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