missing narcs

Nurses General Nursing

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Ok, somebody I know might have recently found a missing container of narcs that was supposedly signed in a couple weeks ago by a couple other nurses. There are a certain number of sheets, but one less actual narcs. We don't count sheets like most nursing homes, but this nurse decided to count them one night and that's how they discovered it. This person was reluctant to tell the DON, but decided to as they didn't want this going on (if someone is taking them) and get the rest of us in trouble. A couple of us talked to the other nurses and of course they denied it. Now it sounds like they may do lie detector and/or drug tests on us. At first this sounded ok to the person discovering it (as they did'nt take the missing container).

Now this got me thinking...since I'm a nervous person by nature. What if I fail the lie detector test if they do one and the person who took it passes? I hear it does happen sometimes. Or what if one of the other "good" nurses fails it? Or what if (hypothetically) for example, they ask if you ever took anything from the facility... ie say maybe sometime in the past you tossed a pill in your pocket since the resident was either sleeping and would'nt wake up or refused at the time and you intended to come back later to give it to them, but it got busy and you forgot. Then when you got home, you found it and disposed of it because it would look suspicious taking it back the next time you worked (say it was something prn or not really that important if they missed the one dose of course). I don't know how reliable or legal for that matter a test like this is, but I don't want to lose my license over something somebody else did if it comes to that. Of course maybe there is a logical explanation like somebody leaving the narc box unlocked at some point and somebody else stole it or maybe the paperwork got messed up somehow. I would have no problem taking the drug test if they decide to do that, but just don't know if I like the idea of the lie detector test and what all they can ask you.

You shouldn't be all that worried if you didn't take it. They will do what they decide is best for their facility and all you can do is decide what you want to do (take the lie detector or not). If you refuse it then you probably will look guilty to others but that is just my opinion. And don't put things in your pocket for future reference, it isn't best practice. Just dispose of pills the patient will not be ingesting during the prescribed time period.

Best of luck! Hopefully things get figured out.

I have taken a lie detector test before and you should not worry. If you did not take anything you will be fine.

Specializes in ER.
Ok, somebody I know might have recently found a missing container of narcs that was supposedly signed in a couple weeks ago by a couple other nurses. There are a certain number of sheets, but one less actual narcs. We don't count sheets like most nursing homes, but this nurse decided to count them one night and that's how they discovered it. This person was reluctant to tell the DON, but decided to as they didn't want this going on (if someone is taking them) and get the rest of us in trouble. A couple of us talked to the other nurses and of course they denied it. Now it sounds like they may do lie detector and/or drug tests on us. At first this sounded ok to the person discovering it (as they did'nt take the missing container).

Now this got me thinking...since I'm a nervous person by nature. What if I fail the lie detector test if they do one and the person who took it passes? I hear it does happen sometimes. Or what if one of the other "good" nurses fails it? Or what if (hypothetically) for example, they ask if you ever took anything from the facility... ie say maybe sometime in the past you tossed a pill in your pocket since the resident was either sleeping and would'nt wake up or refused at the time and you intended to come back later to give it to them, but it got busy and you forgot. Then when you got home, you found it and disposed of it because it would look suspicious taking it back the next time you worked (say it was something prn or not really that important if they missed the one dose of course). I don't know how reliable or legal for that matter a test like this is, but I don't want to lose my license over something somebody else did if it comes to that. Of course maybe there is a logical explanation like somebody leaving the narc box unlocked at some point and somebody else stole it or maybe the paperwork got messed up somehow. I would have no problem taking the drug test if they decide to do that, but just don't know if I like the idea of the lie detector test and what all they can ask you.

so you're basically being accused of taking the narcs????

Specializes in ER, Trauma.

There are dozens of sites which tell you how to beat a lie detector test and claim lie detectors are voodoo science. The information is so readily available on the web that I doubt giving everyone lie detector tests will accomplish anything, unless it's all a scare tactic. Urine drug tests would be more useful IMHO. There are inumerable ways to divert narcotics. Over and over I've seen people get caught because they get away with it for so long they get careless and make dumb mistakes. Hope this helps.

Specializes in pulm/cardiology pcu, surgical onc.

If it wasn't you and you didn't divert anything I would quit stressing on it you're getting caught up too much in facility BS. Maybe it's time for the nurses in your facility to start counting narcs the right way.

so you're basically being accused of taking the narcs????

Not me personally, but all of the nurses working there may be tested. I don't know, maybe not as I did'nt hear anything today. If they decide to do the drug test and wait until the first of the week and the person that took them knows about it, it might clear their system by then. But yeah, since I did'nt take it, I should stop stressing about it.

Specializes in pulm/cardiology pcu, surgical onc.

All narcs should be counted at every change of shift to prevent this from happening. Be proactive.

As to the lie-detector test, I'm assuming they're using a polygraph? (Or whatever it's called). If so, those aren't admissible in court, so if it ever went that far, they wouldn't be able to mention it. So it's essentially useless.

Specializes in Hospice / Psych / RNAC.

Lie detectors are not accurate and cannot be admissible in court. It doesn't matter if you fail it or not. BTW; it's probably a scare tactic because it could get quite spendy to hire all that equipment and then there are only 6 certified specialist in the U.S. who can read them with any degree of accuracy....and they will only read them if the right equipment was used etc.... Remember Ted Bundy passed a lie detector 3 times and there are numerous other examples that will show you how pseudoscience they are. The test is dependent of your impulses reacting to questions so don't drink caffeine prior to testing; perhaps a tranquil tea or something that calms one.

One place I worked had a camera in the med room. It didn't bother me but it was always being reset because people would knock it and throw stuff over it (people didn't like the camera). They were constantly threatening us that they would find out who was tampering with the camera.....it turned out to be a real joke; I wonder if it's still there.

Go to work, be happy, and get past all this negative stuff; it will only bother you if you let it.

Whenever there is a discrepancy with a narcotic count an incident report has to be filed, as well as other reports. This also includes a list of the names of the licensed nurses who had keys to the cart at the time. The policy is that all narcotics are counted at the beginning and end of each shift using a narcotic counter sheet. That is the time that someone should have noticed that either a counter sheet was missing that went to a narcotic or a narcotic was missing that went to a counter sheet. If someone found a bottle of narcotics floating around, then the pharmacy would be called to find out who signed it in. That person was responsible for filling out a narcotic counter sheet and locking up the narcotic. The pills should be counted to see if they are all there and the res. MAR should be checked to see if any were signed out. If the investigation is done correctly they might be able to come up with the one person who was accountable for the mistake. I do not believe that it is legal to accuse anyone of stealing or self admin. narcotics unless they have evidence. As in they saw the person do it, their narcotic count came up wrong, the person appears to be under the influence and the missing drug is found in their system, etc. As a condition of employment a person can be asked to submit to a drug screen if they refuse they can be fired. Since this is a possibly malpractice lawsuit if you have private call them up and ask to talk to an attorney about it, they will be more than happy to advise you for free to avoid any further legal problems. If someone told me to take a lie detector test I would refuse and then consult my attorney.

Thanks for the posts. Whats weird is we have never counted the sheets since I've been there and I even found a narc over a year old without a sheet! We keep track of the current meds, but not the "extras". I'm surprised there has never been an issue with state, but maybe rules are more lax with assisted living facilities.

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