Managers can I change your opinion of them?

  1. 10

    I read threads about managers and how ineffective they are I would like to see if I can change readers minds about how their manager is performing and what barriers there may be.

    it is a very lonely world out there for managers. i became a manager of a dialysis facility in august 2010.

    i was promoted from within, not the best way to start out in your new role! why-because everybody has certain expectations of you which you cannot live up to. you start out with the best possible rationale which quickly turns into realization that in the big bad world of management that 'behind the scenes' is not as it seems when trying to look in.

    everything and i mean everything works very slowly, to get even the simplest task takes for ever to implement. to get a huge project under way takes forever and ever amen

    an example of this is when you know an employee is not performing at their job description you cannot just fire them! (this is not what i want to do just for the record this is just an example-and not a very good one!)

    no matter what we read on here 'normally' and if you work for a company who is actually cares about their employees there are huge hoops to jump through to fire somebody.

    in my company you have to have a paper trail it starts with

    1. a first negative anecdotal
    2. a second negative anecdotal
    3. a step one corrective action
    4. a step two corrective action
    5. a step three corrective action
    6. suspension pending investigation
    7. termination
    if you don't have all your ducks in a row then you cannot i repeat cannot fire/discipline an employee.

    you can however depending on the severity of the issue progress the employee through the steps faster and if a danger to a pt then jump to suspension pending investigation.

    this whole process can take 6 months which is a long time when there are severe concerns about an employee. everything has to go through human resources and approved once you get into the step actions. hr will advise how to proceed and will consult with lawyers.

    why you ask-this is to protect the company from litigation and also as i learn't recently help to reduce the unemployment payouts!

    meanwhile the bad behavior continues and the other staff think that an unproductive, mean, non-compliant work colleague is getting away with behaving badly or has poor performance! they think if he/she can do it then so can i.

    they start to lose faith in you as a manager because 'there is no point in going to see her she does nothing'. when in reality you are working your butt off to try and improve bad situations.

    it takes 100's of hours sometimes to get one piece of work completed because of the red tape and the hoops.

    you cannot tell the rest of the staff what you are doing as this would not be fair, so you have to smile and hope they will one day have the results needed.

    when i first became a manager i would stress every night that i had not completed my work. as an rn i hardly ever left work for somebody to complete i went home in the evening satisfied i had done what was expected! now i left piles of work half completed and something to look forward to when i got back in the next day. now 8 months on i no longer have nightmares about uncompleted work, it is all part of the job description.

    my day is never boring and never predictable, i do however miss the patients because i really never have any time to work on the floor i know my skills are going rusty i know i could not perform as a nurse in the same level i did before because i am now a paper pusher, a therapist, a sounding board, i am a boss, but am bossed from a higher level, a financial expert, a scheduler, a kindergarten teacher, a referee, a swing door, a borrower, a lender, a sponge, an executioner and a friend when somebody needs a shoulder.

    i read threads on managers and i have to ask am i like that? do i do that? and what is the bigger picture

    it is such a huge topic and i would like to deal with each role individually.

    nothing and i mean nothing is as you see it! a poor performance which has a impact on a team may not be just that the staff member is trying to be troublesome or nasty or not able to complete a task!

    we all have the problem that we tell an 'ugly story" about somebody else to justify why they are behaving in such a way, and we already have that story in our heads, if we just asked or discussed we may find out the true picture and it will probably be different that what we had told ourselves.

    many times i have staff telling me a story about another staff member sometimes i just listen and other times i ask the other person to come see me in the'dungeon'-because if you pop in my office it is ok but if i ask you to come into the office and see me then i become the executioner immediately!

    when you ask what is going on and if everything is ok, then a quite different story emerges.

    a huge lesson i learn't early on as a manager was to hear all sides of the story and not act before you have considered both! another huge lesson i have learn't is, if an employee is having an issue with another employee i ask questions like

    'what do you think the solution is?"

    i am encouraging the staff to come to me with solutions not just problems, after all nobody woke up and made me god! i dont know everything and i dont have all the answers i am just a person like you!

    added 4/14/2011
    i would like to add when starting this blog article i was trying to reassure people that you cannot just get fired in good companies-but it does look like i am trigger happy when i re read! so i apologise that was not my intention.
    however i did need to correct some very bad behaviour which needed immediate action very soon into my job, and that how i know how hard it is to make sure things are dealt with fairly and correctly.
    Last edit by madwife2002 on Apr 13, '11 : Reason: addition
    4_Sq, CalStatePreNursing, ccrnlgc, and 7 others like this.

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  2. Visit  madwife2002} profile page

    About madwife2002, BSN, RN

    madwife2002 has '24' year(s) of experience and specializes in 'RN, RM, BSN'. From 'Ohio'; Joined Jan '05; Posts: 9,660; Likes: 5,339.

    Read more articles from madwife2002

    65 Comments so far...

  3. Visit  madwife2002} profile page
    5
    PS Part two will be next week if anybody is interested?
    nursel56, S.N. Visit, Dondie, and 2 others like this.
  4. Visit  MelEpiRN} profile page
    2
    I often read these rants on Managers and Administration people post on this website and wonder how many people really know what they do? It makes me sad that so many people have such negative opinions of them. I suspect that yes, there really are bad managers, but when people think their bosses are 'against them' or 'have nothing better to do than find out how to make more work for the floor nurses' it makes me think there is a severe misunderstanding. Management and Administration is often tied to legal issues and protocols just like everybody else. Are meetings with the managers really more of an education session that the nurse believes is a "disciplinary action"?
    Just a thought.
    msn10 and madwife2002 like this.
  5. Visit  hope3456} profile page
    6
    I'd be interested to know what state u live in to have to go thru so many 'loopholes' to get someone fired! I am currently residing in a 'right to work' state. There doesn't have to be a reason to fire someone. You could fire a employee for looking at you crosseyed! another tactic you might want to try is 'asking to resign.' Don't do it to their face - it is best done via telephone and then you can just deny that you talked to them. Make horrible vague comments to them about how they are putting a burden on the unit, jeopardizing their license, tell them their coworkers don't like them, ect. If u are in anyway concerned about having to still pay unemployment bennys, just ask them to 'seek other employment, then give resignation.'

    Nurses in my locale get no warning there is a problem w/job performance - just get fired at the whim of administration or are subjected to the above described situation.
    AmericanRN, VivaRN, MissPiggy, and 3 others like this.
  6. Visit  kcmylorn} profile page
    13
    I believe that managers of today do not really see entire issues. I do believe that the managers of today have a hightened sence of entitlement. I feel alot of them put their faith and trust in a certain chosen few who have adgendas of their own that the manager fail to see. I do not feel managers stick by or support their RN's. I fell that the recession and the glut of new grads begging for jobs have only brought out the selfish evil "me" in the contemporary manager.
    I personally feel the opening blog is a" feel sorry for me" I'm the poor burdened manager. After being around nursing for 30 years- this crop of management that we staff nurses are forced to put up with is pretty poor. And it is this crop of management that makes me want to leave nursing and not with a good opinnion of the profession. Unfortunately, I'm not alone. Ive seen too many decisions to get rid of nurses for the most demeaning and outragous concocted reasons that we all know are not the truth. The getting rid of staff nurse with over 20 years experience to cut a budget- that hospital now has such a poor reputation that the providers I now work with will not send their patients there( and I never opened my mouth) I was quickly seen and widely stated- they don't have enough experience to the point where they are dangerous. I know of old nursing buddies of mine who a manager tried for 18 months to get rid of because of her age and cost of insurance benefits. This old colleage of mine had worked that hospital for over 30 years- yes, she is entitled to her pension and retirement benefits. Just like you managers would expect if the shoe was on your foot! Your younger nurses are not going to stick around that long - read these posts from younger nurses!! Your going to be forking more money out in orientation and recruiting than ever before- these younger nurses have no sence of loyality to you or any other employer. I say good, you asked for it, you got it. You have alienated us older experienced nurses with demeaning and disrespect to the point where just let us find a way out- we are gone and are not looking back. I know I'm not and I know plenty other who aren't either. We don't want to help teach this younger generation or you either for that matter- you made your dirty deceiptful beds, lay in it!! You are the ones who are loosing- we had our older nurses around to help guide us, your not going to be able to make claim. We did not disrespect our older nurses, we may not have liked them but we knew where to go when we needed help and we were not so full of ourselves that we didn't ask. We never 'devalued' them like old shoes. Our managers in those days viewed them as their resourses- that's what make this new breed of management atrousities and disgracing the title nurse. This is where nursing has changed and not for the better. I feel no piety for you. So stop snibbling to the masses.
    losbozos, 4_Sq, AmericanRN, and 10 others like this.
  7. Visit  kcmylorn} profile page
    0
    no!!!!
  8. Visit  madwife2002} profile page
    4
    Quote from kcmylorn
    I believe that managers of today do not really see entire issues. I do believe that the managers of today have a hightened sence of entitlement. I feel alot of them put their faith and trust in a certain chosen few who have adgendas of their own that the manager fail to see. I do not feel managers stick by or support their RN's. I fell that the recession and the glut of new grads begging for jobs have only brought out the selfish evil "me" in the contemporary manager.
    I personally feel the opening blog is a" feel sorry for me" I'm the poor burdened manager. After being around nursing for 30 years- this crop of management that we staff nurses are forced to put up with is pretty poor. And it is this crop of management that makes me want to leave nursing and not with a good opinnion of the profession. Unfortunately, I'm not alone. Ive seen too many decisions to get rid of nurses for the most demeaning and outragous concocted reasons that we all know are not the truth. The getting rid of staff nurse with over 20 years experience to cut a budget- that hospital now has such a poor reputation that the providers I now work with will not send their patients there( and I never opened my mouth) I was quickly seen and widely stated- they don't have enough experience to the point where they are dangerous. I know of old nursing buddies of mine who a manager tried for 18 months to get rid of because of her age and cost of insurance benefits. This old colleage of mine had worked that hospital for over 30 years- yes, she is entitled to her pension and retirement benefits. Just like you managers would expect if the shoe was on your foot! Your younger nurses are not going to stick around that long - read these posts from younger nurses!! Your going to be forking more money out in orientation and recruiting than ever before- these younger nurses have no sence of loyality to you or any other employer. I say good, you asked for it, you got it. You have alienated us older experienced nurses with demeaning and disrespect to the point where just let us find a way out- we are gone and are not looking back. I know I'm not and I know plenty other who aren't either. We don't want to help teach this younger generation or you either for that matter- you made your dirty deceiptful beds, lay in it!! You are the ones who are loosing- we had our older nurses around to help guide us, your not going to be able to make claim. We did not disrespect our older nurses, we may not have liked them but we knew where to go when we needed help and we were not so full of ourselves that we didn't ask. We never 'devalued' them like old shoes. Our managers in those days viewed them as their resourses- that's what make this new breed of management atrousities and disgracing the title nurse. This is where nursing has changed and not for the better. I feel no piety for you. So stop snibbling to the masses.
    Thank you for taking the time to repsond to my blog.
    I would like to say after 22 years in Nursing and 21 of those years as a floor RN I pretty much paid my dues with all sorts of managers most of them bad but there are always a few managers along the way that I repected.

    I am not asking for anybody to feel sorry for me, I apologise if it appears that way-My blog is my own personnal experience. I really value my staff, I enjoy them we have fun but there is always room for improvement as a team.

    Financially we have been hit hard in health care and I think it is disgraceful that jobs are being cut! I know I fight on a daily basis to keep expences down, especially drugs as they are so expensive. Everyday I worry that if I dont keep my budget tight somebody could potentially be layed off!
    When my budget is made my wishes are not taken into consideration-so if I do well on one area for example
    I manage within an allowance then next year it is cut!
    We have a staff appreciation budget which was cut in half because the manager before me never used it I can tell you we use it all each month now-we have cakes, gas card drawings, pizza etc

    I love my job however stressed I get what I hoped to achieve by my blog is helping others to understand what goes on behind the scenes.

    I am sorry you feel so angry and believe me I understand-in my old job my last manager was horrible she fired half the work force, screamed at us and made impossible requests! I hope I learned from her what not to do
  9. Visit  madwife2002} profile page
    2
    Quote from hope3456
    I'd be interested to know what state u live in to have to go thru so many 'loopholes' to get someone fired! I am currently residing in a 'right to work' state. There doesn't have to be a reason to fire someone. You could fire a employee for looking at you crosseyed! another tactic you might want to try is 'asking to resign.' Don't do it to their face - it is best done via telephone and then you can just deny that you talked to them. Make horrible vague comments to them about how they are putting a burden on the unit, jeopardizing their license, tell them their coworkers don't like them, ect. If u are in anyway concerned about having to still pay unemployment bennys, just ask them to 'seek other employment, then give resignation.'

    Nurses in my locale get no warning there is a problem w/job performance - just get fired at the whim of administration or are subjected to the above described situation.
    I live and work in a right to work state too, and I thought you could just fire somebody for anything but you can't where I work! Which is good for me too because I have managers and more managers and a boss above me!
    So hopefully I can't get fired either LOL
    greenfiremajick and cosmicsun like this.
  10. Visit  madwife2002} profile page
    2
    Quote from kcmylorn
    no!!!!

    Ok but I think I may still write it-it is theraputic to me LOL
    greenfiremajick and Nascar nurse like this.
  11. Visit  llg} profile page
    5
    Some nurses who have never been managers think they know all about management. Yet those same nurses think that managers who have many years of experience as a staff nurse know nothing about being a staff nurse.

    I see this frequently in nursing -- and it never ceases to disappoint me.
    mystory, LockportRN, Nascar nurse, and 2 others like this.
  12. Visit  kcmylorn} profile page
    2
    I feel as a manager you are supposed to bring the upper administration around to 'value' nursing- do you? Not just try, but "make" through intense education, the upper management(fiscial MBA bean counters) the dangers of cutting nursing- experienced and inexperienced nursing. I think this is your resopnsiblity. There is no excuse for any nurse to be out of work or under employed now adays given the complexity of these patients. There is no excuse for any nurse to be out of work or under employed now a days given the amount of salary that these CEO's make. There is no excuse for this destruction of nursing reputations like I am reading and hearing live in person. What has nursing management stooped to? I am not saying that there aren't some infractions that it is warranted- ie. drug abuse and drug diversion.But we now have recovery programs that put these nurses back into practice and they are given another chance. But what about documentation problems. If documentation is an issue on a unit isn't it the nursing manager's responsibility to see to it an inservice is provided. What if med errors are occuring- why not again demonstrate leadership ability and "educate" find out why these errors are occuring- is iot lack of experience, knowledge or a systems error? Why not look into what the issue is, see oif others are having a similar issue and try to solve a problem. What ever happened to leadership and education. Why are we placing a non removable blackmark such as a termination on to another professional's reputation. Do you realy understand the magnitude of what you are doing? These young nurses are not educated in the best form now a days. It is a well studied fact(Either through Robert Wood Johnson Foundation or J&J by Dr Patricia Benner the foremost authority on nursing education) that stated this. Why are you not preaching the value of your experienced nurses to these upper managment bean counters. I don't understand why nurse managers are not looking at each other in these upper management meeting and say Holy Crap, what is happening to the healthcare in this country, are we and our patients in trouble, run for you lives!! The pharmacy budget is the pharmacy's problem- let them negotiate and dicker prices with the drug vendors. Isn't yours safe staffing? It seem s like alot of money is being wasted in healthcare on the management level!- The not investing (educating and retaining) the nurses you have left and trying to get more to relieve the burn out and disillusionment. Nursing is not rewarding anymore- it is now "just a job" same crap different 4 walls. What are you doing about this younger generation of nurses who are not going to stick around like us old nurses did- the ones your peers shoved out the door, because it was deemed we cost too much. Really? how much do you think it's going to cost to recruit and orient a new staff nurse(s) every 2-3 years? What are your management buddies doing to improve- Work Ethic! It is your job and responsibility to "make", for lack of a better word, the upper bean counter MBA's( who are probably young and inexperienced also) see things in the big picture? Stop living for the moment.
    trixie333 and MissPiggy like this.
  13. Visit  elkpark} profile page
    5
    I don't think I need to have my opinion of managers "changed" -- I've been in healthcare a long time now, in a few different states, in a bunch of different jobs in different settings, and I've had good (some really good ), bad, and mediocre managers. I start a new without any preconceptions (as much as humanly possible) about the manager, and wait to see what kind of a manager s/he is going to turn out to be over time.

    Although I've never had any interest in moving into management/administration myself, and have valiantly resisted efforts over the years to push me in that direction , it's not because I don't respect or appreciate all that is involved in those roles and positions, and I have a great deal of respect for the people who are good at doing them.
    trixie333, MissPiggy, barbyann, and 2 others like this.
  14. Visit  elkpark} profile page
    0
    Quote from hope3456
    I'd be interested to know what state u live in to have to go thru so many 'loopholes' to get someone fired! I am currently residing in a 'right to work' state. There doesn't have to be a reason to fire someone. You could fire a employee for looking at you crosseyed! another tactic you might want to try is 'asking to resign.' Don't do it to their face - it is best done via telephone and then you can just deny that you talked to them. Make horrible vague comments to them about how they are putting a burden on the unit, jeopardizing their license, tell them their coworkers don't like them, ect. If u are in anyway concerned about having to still pay unemployment bennys, just ask them to 'seek other employment, then give resignation.'

    Nurses in my locale get no warning there is a problem w/job performance - just get fired at the whim of administration or are subjected to the above described situation.
    I believe what you describe is a problem with an organization (or more than one organizations), not a geographical region. I've spent nearly all of my career (>25 years) working in "right to work" states, and the only times I've seen any behavior by management even approaching what you describe was within specific organizations which were known to be bad employers. I've worked for plenty of organizations that would never consider treating an employee like that, and would get rid of any manager within the organization who mistreated her/his subordinates. Even though organizations may be free, under state law, to treat people like that, that doesn't mean that organizations and managers necessarily will treat people like that.


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