Male Nurse Disgusted by Female Nurses

This male nurse is appalled at his female colleagues' behavior. Is he right? Nurses General Nursing Article

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Hi Beth:

I believe you submitted a recent article about Safe Patient/Nurse Ratios in this country. I have been a nurse for about one year and a half and I am appalled by what I have observed with the untenable and unsafe patient/nurse ratios healthcare employers are demanding nurses work with, BUT, I am even more FRUSTRATED and DISGUSTED with the TOTAL LACK OF UNITY among nurses when it comes to speaking in one voice to employers about this.

They would rather run to the bathroom and cry or ***** and moan in private never having the guts to unite and square off with the managements responsible for creating unsafe conditions for the sake of profit. I am a male nurse....you ladies always tout this spirit of "Teamwork" on the floors yet I have never in my life witnessed the amount of undermining and backstabbing that exists among nurses.

Before we can begin to force change on healthcare employers we have to take ownership of our failure to unite.Ladies. please stop all the petty politics among yourselves! Let's all come together as one body and push our legislators for change!! We are in the millions and we are in demand!! That is power!!

Dear Male Nurse Disgusted with Female Nurses,

The female experience is very different from the male experience, my friend. You are operating in the largely female world of nursing, and it probably feels very foreign to you. But as women, this is our world and we know it well.

You believe we are petty and fight among ourselves rather than uniting and speaking up to management. Uniting and speaking up to management as one is male behavior. Female behavior is more divisive and it has kept us down as a profession. You're right, the nursing profession is really not built on strength or unification.

But there's a reason for this behavior. As a male, you would not know this as a lived experience.

Female Conditioning

Females are conditioned to envy each other, not to trust each other, and to compete with each other. Females compare themselves to other females all their lives. Girls compare themselves to Barbie, to the pretty girls, to the girls boys like best, to the cheerleaders. To every other girl.

Women are taught to be helpless when they're not, act stupid when they're smart, not be hungry when they're starving, and to remain passive they're angry.

Females are called the "b" word for being assertive and considered to be more feminine when they are "sweet". It's a dichotomy of expectations.

The dichotomy is everywhere. Look at popular movies about mean girls.

Being direct and straightforward is not how women are brought up to communicate whatsoever. Saying what we need is less important than meeting other's needs.

Meanwhile, boys are taught to stick together, in the army, on the football team. You rarely hear doctors criticize other doctors. Even when a patient goes to see a doctor with a condition that was mishandled by another provider, the response is more along the lines of "Well, let's move forward from here".

By contrast, nurses are hard on each other. Nurses can be quick to blame other nurses. As females, we expect perfection from ourselves...and each other.

State boards of nursing, made up of nurses, are notoriously hard on nurses as compared to doctors' governing boards.

There's another reason for your observations about female behavior.

Men Rule

It's still largely a male-dominated world. Men have the power. Look at the recent "Time's Up" issue. Even in liberal Hollywood, men have the power. Hospital boards are largely male. Hospital CEOs are largely male while CNOs are largely female.

It's a tough but true reality.

Even in nursing, a traditionally female occupation, when men become nurses they are often viewed as more qualified. It's no secret that men in nursing make more than women.

Self-Value

But we women have very special qualities. Intuition, compassion. Empathy. We are nurturers. When we focus on those unique gifts and collaborate together, instead of competing with each other, we are our most powerful selves.

No Excuses

This is not to say these explanations are excuses. Excuses are for people who don't take responsibility.

We are a force to be reckoned with once we take responsibility and come together. There are over 3 million nurses in the United States. We act as if we only have a rake when we actually have a bulldozer in the garage. We have enormous ability to bring about change.

How do we rally the masses? I don't know. Nurses do unite in outrage, as in Show Me Your Stethoscope. But there is an apathy around bringing about political change. The nursing profession itself is not unified by the American Nurse's Association (ANA). Some would say the ANA is beholden to the American Hospital Association (AHA). The AHA is a powerful lobby.

For whatever reason, it is time to stand up, stand together, and speak up. There is a grassroots movement that is dedicated to legislating nurse-patient ratios. It's the Nurses Take DC organization.

If every nurse reading this would make a call to their legislator, or write an email- it will make a difference!

Easily find out who your legislators are and make a call.

Write a letter to support H.R. 2392 and S. 1063 Nurse Staffing Standards for Hospital Patient Safety and Quality Care Act of 2017 legislative bills. Legislators respond to topics based on the number of phone calls and mail from their constituents.

Please read Mandated Nurse-Patient Ratios and share it and this article on social media. Use hashtags #NursesTakeDC and #allnursesSTRONG

Thanks Feelix, this man-hating "equality" business is absolutely ridiculous. People keep THEMSELVES down and nursing is hardly a patriarchy. Neo-feminism has become another way for the militant left to sink their claws into society.

I wish I had time to tell my personal story. As a woman, listening to all of this political riff raff, I could put many voices to shame for what I have accomplished in my life based on my personal statistics. I am what I made myself: I blame no one and I take all the credit for every success.

No one is talking about Hate.

Equality does not mean that.

I've been frustrated by this more than once... or twice.... or fifty times. I've learned the whole "Power to the People" "If we all take a stance they have to listen" thing just doesn't work. Too many nurses are ambitious and will use this to label you as a trouble maker to climb over you to the top.

I learned early on Washington has it all wrong. The problem with healthcare can't be solved with legislation. There are just too many women in too small of a space... they could probably solve a lot of healthcare problems by giving us cubicles so we didn't have to work on top of each other.

That being said the best way to cut down (not eliminate lets have realistic expectations) cattiness is through retention activities. Get everyone together outside the unit, try to plan things that different people will appreciate when various groups can attend. Give incentives for attending and try to make child care arrangements (maybe someone's teenagers watch the other coworkers' little ones), if people are hosting things at their homes be careful to rotate so everyone feels welcome to avoid cliques.

Here's the hard part... garner a relationship and report between night and day shift. Often night shift feels left out of all of this stuff. its always in the middle of the day when they are sleeping, unit parties are held by leadership and they leave out the food " for night shift to enjoy too" they don't want your 12 hour old leftovers, they just end up throwing it all away and ******** about having to clean up after day shift, bring fresh treats for the night crew to show both groups they are appreciated, plan events around 5-8 so it can be convenient for everyone, schedule meetings before night shift or after day shift, no one wants to come in on their day off at 7 am... they will only be at that meeting if they are just getting off work, they are much likely to come in and participate on a day off if it is in the evening when they were up already.

As far as the ratios go, this will depend a lot on the type of hospital you work in and the state you are in. Magnet hospitals have shared governance so join the committee. Don't just complain, suggest solutions. Create a paper trail to get administration's attention. Hit them where it counts... their wallets.

I once got sick of pre shift huddle because after huddle everyone sat around until after 7 then wandered out to get report. I never left work until after 8... drove me crazy! I did the math to show them a conservative estimate of how much the huddle was costing the unit a year in unnecessary overtime. We could have onboarded 2 nurses or paid the salary for an additional support staff member. They started paging out the huddle information.

Another nurse got sick of our lipid bags leaking, he wrote a safety report for every nurse on the unit when any lipid bag leaked and had to be replaced (about 3-5 a night) wrapped each bag in a biohazard bag with a patient label and sent it to pharmacy administration. After a month the issue had the attention of the CNO, and after 2 months we had new tubing that didn't leak.

I would gather some data on clabsi, cauti, fall, hapu, employee turnover, and overtime due to call ins at your hospital compared to other area hospitals with better ratios. Compare those costs (and they are all REALLY high) to that of onboarding (around half the nurses yearly salary) and pay for the additional nurses needed to have proper ratios. Also look into what your company spends on contract staff. Lower ratios would lead to higher retention rates and mitigate the need for travelers and contract employees.

There is only so much you can do and change never happens over night, make sure to join the ANA and your state Nurses association, your member dues go toward lobbying for these very issues and more. All else fails, thats the beauty of nursing... go work somewhere else... I hear California is nice.

Cali is not very pro vaccine.

"They" "you ladies". Not really liking the tone of this pompous male nurse.

1 Votes
Specializes in LTC, Medical, Rehab, Psych.

Farawyn, I didn't mention "hate" did I? But the notion of "equality" in this context is highly flawed. What are you unequal to? What rights and choices do you not have? I'm sorry but I find the notion of equality between the sexes to be a worthless nothing. I have had more opportunity in my life time as an individual than any other time in all of western civilization. I think you and the other complainers need a history lesson.

I have been a nurse for about one year and a half and I am appalled by what I have observed with the untenable and unsafe patient/nurse ratios healthcare employers are demanding nurses work with, BUT, I am even more FRUSTRATED and DISGUSTED with the TOTAL LACK OF UNITY among nurses when it comes to speaking in one voice to employers about this.

Let's all come together as one body and push our legislators for change!! We are in the millions and we are in demand!! That is power!!

I actually agree with this newly minted nurse. I don't think he chose a particularly diplomatic or strategically smart way to verbalize his thoughts as I think they risk coming off as condescending and perhaps slightly arrogant. Not to mention seeming completely oblivious of the effect of social conditioning. But there is definitely some truth in his statements.

Nursing is a second career for me. I come from a law enforcement background and I spent a big chunk of that career working as a lone female in an all-male group. That has shaped me and I have on many occasions been mistaken for being a man in written communication when I've signed with only first initial. lastname instead of my full name. People were surprised that I'm a woman when we finally met face-to-face. I've been told that I am assertive, precise and that I seem to have an expectation that I will be listened to and somehow that conjures up the image of a male in their minds :sarcastic:

When I first started in nursing the culture shock was enormous. It frustrated me then and if I'm honest, it still does. I come from a background were we knew that we had strength in numbers. And we made our employer realize it. We knew that we possessed skills that were valuable to our employer and we knew that if we could just stick together, there was no room for them to treat us poorly. As a result, we weren't treated poorly.

Most of the women I work with are smart, skilled professionals but I cannot wrap my head around why nurses as a profession are willing to take so much crap and make so few demands (and mean it). If one or three nurses leave a job because because they find the work conditions unacceptable, it will not matter one iota. The employer will hire replacements. If the employer is faced with a REAL risk that EVERYONE will leave then trust me, they'll change their tune.

One of the things that I've discussed in previous threads on AN is that so many posters express that nurses have to expect to be threatened and even assaulted at work and that employers will not protect them, even going as far as firing a nurse who dares file a report with the police if they've been assaulted. When I've asked these posters if they've actually experienced this in real life (ie a nurse being assaulted, reporting it to the police and subsequently being fired), not a single one of them could say that had happened. Yet, they live in fear of this happening and feel that they have to accept that the risk of being assaulted and having no legal recourse is just something a nurse has to deal with. I have defended myself against violent patients and the occasional unruly family member. I've never gotten in trouble for it. The law of whatever country you live and work in applies to nurses too, and employers don't have the right to rob an employee of their legal protection. I've had coworkers say that they would never dare do what I did, and I just don't get it. No employer will ever deprive me of my legal rights.

Another major difference in my anecdotal experience is staff meetings. Previous career, if we had an issue with how our employer handled something and one of us brought it up in a meeting, others would voice their support loud and clear. Nursing meetings drive me nuts. If I bring something up that people have been complaining about for the longest time and suggest a solution, everyone sits silently. Not a peep. And AFTER the darn meeting, they will approach me in private and thank me for saying what I said. I try to explain that I alone will not effect any real change. If they are serious about their complaints they need to stand up and say; I agree with loudmouth-pain-in the-butt macawake :)

I genuinely wish that all parents could raise their daughters to realize that it is okay for them to make demands and to expect that their voices are heard and respected. See, the funny thing is that that expectation has a way of becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. You do teach people how to treat you.

One conclusion that I've arrived at is that employer's often use some of the most defining traits of the nursing profession as a weapon against nurses. It's almost akin to being held (an emotional) hostage. Nurses care about their patients and a nurse will often go to great lengths to keep a patient safe and well cared for. Unreasonable nurse-patient ratio, the nurse will just run faster, often to the detriment of thir own health. That has to stop. We actually do have strength in numbers. Things can improve, but it will never happen by itself. WE need to make it happen.

Great post Nurse Beth! I think you did a good job of identifying some of the obstacles we have to overcome and conquer.

1 Votes

Not surprised at all at how we are bashing the OP on the basis of gender, instead of trying to understand what he is trying to say. It is all this emotional stuff that keeps us behind. Yes, it is true that the healthcare workplace has the worst human network. Yet, physicians, who have male majority back each other up, while nurses who have femal majority pull each other's leg. Nobody wants to hear why? We want to be mollycoddled, told things we want to hear, rather than the truth and if anyone wants to speak the truth, we start whining about them being insensitive. This kind of attitude will let us hide our heads in the sand for another century while other disciplines will go forward in leaps and bounds.

I will agree that the way this is put comes off as an attack but I think the ladies here are taking these words a little too much to heart. Everything he said is true for the most part, and can you deny that women do tend to be catty? Can you deny that they will ****** and moan in private rather than go to management? I have seen this myself time and again having worked in many places where females outnumbered males.

Women often ask why guys don't express their feelings, well this is how we do it. This is the only acceptable way we have been taught we are allowed to. He is showing his frustration and disappointment through anger. Where as a woman may cry and look for comfort we can't do that we can only get mad and blow off steam.

Why doesn't he take it upon himself to go to management and get things changed? Why does he need everyone else? Well let me tell you this is a lesson I have learned the hard way. When you do this, whether in the right or not, you get singled out and in most cases end up getting setup to be fired. Safety in numbers anyone?

I know these forums have to be, by the demographic of the professional field, overwhelmingly female but for gods sake please, please, PLEASE do not use the word patriarchy while talking to male coworkers. Whether true or not that is just one of those words and will put the person you are talking to on the defensive. Simply saying "a mostly male dominated" while the same thing is better sounding.

As for guys getting more money as nurses I can't really say. Could it be that society still for some reason thinks a guy is more capable compared to a woman? Maybe. I know my grandmother always says she would rather have a guy taking care of her over a girl. It could be because of how society was, but it is changing. Granted it is not changing as fast as we would like, but it is changing. It isn't the fault of nurses but the fault of the people and their lack of knowledge of the nurses vast base of knowledge. I can certainly tell you I would rather something explained to me by a female RN with 35 years experience over a male doctor fresh out of med school. Or could it be that management sees that the guys are often asked to do more physical work by coworkers (lifting patients, restraining aggressive patients etc) and they want to compensate them for doing so? Maybe. I have worked with patients that had developmental disabilities and their way of expressing themselves was by becoming aggressive and had to be restrained physically. My coworkers were almost always all females and I felt the need to be there to protect them. Yes, I know i said it I'm not going to mince words that's how I felt. As to why that was, for one i'm a big guy (no, not a "Me big. Me man. Me strong." big guy I mean a 235 lb guy, I'm fat lol) and most of the girls were small, I'm talking 90 lbs soaking wet small. The residents ranged from 150-265 lbs. So if I got punched I knew it was going to hurt, but it was going to hurt my coworkers more. Two, they always yelled for me when something happened, so there's that. Three, some of my coworkers liked it. As one of the older women stated " I like having the guys around when this stuff goes on. it makes me feel safer having them around."

Now this isn't to say the girls weren't able to do this stuff on their own, they got the same training as I did in SCIP and as a matter of fact we got yelled at by my boss one day for all this. She said "None of you should be acting like a white knight and always taking it upon yourself to intervene and no one should always be calling them to intervene." Funny thing about that is two of the girls I didn't really get along with said how they never did that and they could handle things themselves, not 30 minutes later were screaming for me when one of the guys was having a behavioral issue.

Anyhow I'm getting off on a tangent (sorry ADHD i do that sometimes lol)

More to the point i am reminded of a joke:

Men socialize by making fun of each other, but they don't really mean it. Women socialize by complimenting each other, but they don't really mean it.

Edit: These are my thoughts based upon my experiences and do not necessarily represent the thoughts or experiences of others, and some of my thoughts may or may not need further explanation to make better sense to anyone other than myself. So take it as you will and if you wish ask for further clarification.

Farawyn, I didn't mention "hate" did I? But the notion of "equality" in this context is highly flawed. What are you unequal to? What rights and choices do you not have? I'm sorry but I find the notion of equality between the sexes to be a worthless nothing. I have had more opportunity in my life time as an individual than any other time in all of western civilization. I think you and the other complainers need a history lesson.

For once, I am speechless.

Congratulations.

Specializes in School Nursing.

I recently went for a job interview in another part of my state (CA). When I first started out as an LVN, I made 23.00/hr. That was almost 5 years ago. Now this new city was over 3 hours away from my current location, and located in a upscale beach/shopping community. I was expecting to make at least $25 if not more. NO, I was offered 22/hr to start! EXCUSE ME!!!! :woot:

I tried to calmly explain that I started out making more, and that was 5 years ago. She basically looked at me, and said "well, that's the starting pay"! No type of negotiation or ANYTHING.

I know in my heart she didn't care because SOMEONE, would be willing to take 22/hr and my value was not even on the negotation table.

It was a sad day for me as a Nurse.

Specializes in allergy and asthma, urgent care.
Farawyn, I didn't mention "hate" did I? But the notion of "equality" in this context is highly flawed. What are you unequal to? What rights and choices do you not have? I'm sorry but I find the notion of equality between the sexes to be a worthless nothing. I have had more opportunity in my life time as an individual than any other time in all of western civilization. I think you and the other complainers need a history lesson.

Seriously, what world have you been living in? With this one post you completely invalidate the struggles of many women over the last however many years. I think you're the one who needs a history lesson and a reality check.

I will agree that the way this is put comes off as an attack but I think the ladies here are taking these words a little too much to heart. Everything he said is true for the most part, and can you deny that women do tend to be catty? Can you deny that they will ****** and moan in private rather than go to management? I have seen this myself time and again having worked in many places where females outnumbered males.

The point was/is that our society conditions men and women to act the way they do. Women have been conditioned (by parents, peers, media, combination of those factors) to be quietly but ruthlessly competitive with each other.

Society is conditioned to believe that being "feminine" and "sweet" means staying quiet while being treated unfairly. Look to any sitcom or movie featuring a bumbling, inept husband/father while his disproportionately attractive wife sighs and laughs off his irresponsibility while taking over his share of work.

Women who are assertive (i.e. asking for fair treatment) are labeled as complainers while men who do the same are hailed as go-getters and problem solvers.

It's not a specific workplace or work field problem. It's a societal problem.