Magnet, polarization, ageism, classism

nursingcares, RN · Mar 5, 2011

If I were hiring and I had to choose between an ADN and a BSN of course I'm going to choose the BSN. Especially in today's economy they are really wanting more educated nurses and are hiring less ADN and new grads in general. I've heard all through school how in so many years all places will require a BSN (although I don't think it will happen I do understand the basis for the statement). Right now it's hard for anyone to get a job..I'm starting out in LTC so I can have some experience to be considered for other opportunities (unless I decide to stay in LTC).

anon695 · Mar 5, 2011

1. Given that all you need is a pulse to be eligible for pell grants and tons of loan money, you can't attribute lack of a 4-year degree to classism. Rutgers and NJCU are both very affordable 4-year programs in NJ if you've got the smarts to be accepted to their nursing programs.

2. There is no grounds to sue any hospital over preferring to hire a BSN over an ADN. ALL jobs prefer candidates with higher education levels if possible. You need a BA to be a receptionist or sell mobile phones at a booth in a mall these days simply because the employer CAN ask for someone with that degree. It's not illegal or discriminatory.

3. You can't be sure that what's preventing you from getting a job is your lack of a BSN. It could be your age, your background, how you come off in interviews, what you look like, or maybe you're looking at too narrow a field of specialties, geographic area, or shift times. I have no idea but there are usually multiple factors.

4. If you don't have a BSN how do you know it's fluff? I'm getting my diploma/associate's this May and will be going straight on to a BSN. I don't know that it's "all fluff", but whatever the classes are I know that I need to be starting them in order to be competitive in the job market. I have a previous unrelated BA and I put that on my resume, if only to show that I have a history of finishing degrees and am determined to enroll in RN-BSN ASAP while working and intend to finish. Even if the classes do turn out to be fluff, $10K or so is a worthwhile investment just to get that piece of paper that says "BSN" So don't kvetch about it, just do it.

edgarandersonrn · Mar 5, 2011

and I respectfully disagree with this statement. The clinical hours I was required is no less than what is required of ADN and BSN students.
I know its stressful trying to find a job, but pointing the finger at BSNs and whomever else is not going to get you anywhere.

I should have quoted that to the original article. I am not trying to say that BSN educated nurses are any less than ADN's. They are certainly equal. I am just kind of annoyed of the preference they are getting.

It's not ageism? A large majority of nurses that entered the field in the past are ADN or Diploma nurses that are now being asked or told to go back to school to keep their jobs. I remember all of the nurses, in a unit I did clinical, dragging around complaining about a test they had just had and how they were annoyed with school (RN-BSN). They were not BSN's but had worked in the Trauma unit for more than ten years and knew plenty about what they were doing. If these nurses are to leave the hospital; they may have trouble finding jobs elsewhere if they do not finish their degrees.

melmarie23, MSN, RN · Mar 5, 2011

I think it depends on how long ago they received their diploma/degree. I would think that a substantial amount of time has passed then they should be grandfathered, and in my experience/limited knowledge this is the case. However, if it was as recent as a few years or so ago, then yes, I absolutely think its reasonable for employers to want their staff to continue their education-especially if said employer offers monies (i.e. tuition reimbursement) to do so. In that case, there is no excuse not to.

Honestly, working in health care where medicine, technology and current research is ever evolving, so does nursing in order to keep up. CEUs help, sure, but many just do the bare minimum to maintain their license. It needs to be more than that I think.

pedicurn, LPN, RN · Mar 5, 2011

I think it depends on how long ago they received their diploma/degree. I would think that a substantial amount of time has passed then they should be grandfathered, and in my experience/limited knowledge this is the case. However, if it was as recent as a few years or so ago, then yes, I absolutely think its reasonable for employers to want their staff to continue their education-especially if said employer offers monies (i.e. tuition reimbursement) to do so. In that case, there is no excuse not to.
Honestly, working in health care where medicine, technology and current research is ever evolving, so does nursing in order to keep up. CEUs help, sure, but many just do the bare minimum to maintain their license. It needs to be more than that I think.

Some of my first charge nurses and managers were RN's who did diploma programs in the 1950's and 1960's.

As there were far fewer employment options for women back then ...and also reflective of the fact many of these diploma programs only took top students .... many of these nurses were highly intelligent and professionally capable.

The otherwise-would-have-been female physicians /engineers/lawyers/business leaders, of the 1950's-1960's, were often RN's.

They were often great role models and I have the fondest memories of my first supervisors and managers.

These were smart cookies

neuroms · Mar 5, 2011

This is a pretty significant conspiracy theory you're brewing. There are forums to discuss the relative merits of credentials, but it doesn't sound like that's what you're talking about. Are you claiming that the AHA and ANCC got together and crafted a way to artificially select for young, rich nurses and discriminate against old, poor nurses by setting a higher credential preference in hospital hiring? It's entertaining, but just barely. There is no cabal out to hold back your success, it just feels that way.

CVmursenary · Mar 5, 2011

funny how you conceded that BSN nurses are equal to ADN nurses...no they are not, they have completed more school. I personally dont think that BSN's necessarily make better nurses always, but you certainly dont seem to have any respect for more education that BSN's have.

allnurses Guide · Mar 5, 2011

The arguments of the MSN nurse sound better than that of the Diploma nurse..coincidence?

Most likely, yes. But before you even ask a question like that, you need to learn the difference between objective statements and subjective statements. You presented a subjective statement under the false assumption that it was an objective statement. It's magical thinking to believe your opinion is either objective fact or shared by 100% of your readers.

Now I have a question for you. Imagine that you were the reader of your post instead of the author of your post. What might someone deduce about your level of education?

Edga - since I'm almost 55 :eek: from my standpoint 26 doesn't look a whole lot different than 33, so it is hard for me to accept that as ageism. Class and socioeconomic status are so intertwined in every aspect of our lives, I can't disagree totally with what you're saying, but I don't really think it's a deliberate plan. The longer I'm alive the more I see ways in which those with less resources are hampered and how they need to work much harder to get to the same place as those with more. Even as simple a subject as traffic laws show you that. In my city, a fix-it ticket (most likely given because poorer people have crap cars) can escalate to thousands of dollars in fees if you don't pay the 1st in time or can't get to court or can't figure out their crazy rules or hire a lawyer to come in for you. It's a societal problem, not just a nursing ed problem.

I do agree about the polarization. The people who want to force everyone to have a BSN say it's the rest of us who are responsible for it, though. Not agreeing with their plan is what splinters us, you see. Strangely, they find that a top-down autocracy is the way it should all work. Because the physical therapist students were obedient. They said "get thee back to school". It was good that everyone just accepted it without question.

ErinS, BSN, RN · Mar 5, 2011

In the current job market, you have to be competitive. Like it or not, more education equals more competitive. If you want to be competitive, get your BSN. If it is all fluff, than it should be easy (which it isn't and wasn't for me). As an employer, particularly in the area I work, where there is no difference in compensation for a BSN prepared nurse, I see a nurse with a BSN as someone who has taken a personal interest in their career beyond the minimum.

Nccity2002, MSN, RN · Mar 5, 2011

Edga Wrote:" After doing much reading, I have come to the conclusion that Magnet status is nothing more than ageism and classism."

Hi Edga,

I can feel your frustration, but as many others had previously stated...Sadly, this the reality of the nursing market today. I work in a Magnet facility and the main rationale for not hiring ADN prepared RNs is because in order to meet the requirement for Magnet certification, there need to be a certain percentage of BSN and above prepared nurses...I know...it is not fair. As a employer, I would be more inclined to hire the more educated candidate, this is just commom sense (and it is not ilegal). Maybe, you could consider this experience as an encouragement to go back to school and pursue a higher eudcation.

Good Luck.

caliotter3 · Mar 5, 2011

A person may graduate from a BSN program instead of an ASN program because they were accepted at that school or accepted there first. If this person does not divulge this fact to a prospective employer, the employer will only see that they have a BSN degree. They could be the recipient of a more favorable consideration for employment without the background "intent". Considered the same as any one else with a BSN, usually before a person with an ASN or diploma, in the grand scheme of things. The higher the education level, typically, the better chance of getting the job, all things considered.

Fribblet · Mar 5, 2011

Duplicate!