Ethical Debate: Organ Transplants

baseline · Feb 22, 2003

Not offended! This is a tough question, and a good debate. I have mixed feelings. I work with CV surgeons and anesthesiologists who go to China and perform surgery. I worked with Native Americans who could use their expertise as much if not more. How do you decide? Is donation to a non-citizen more ethical or less ethical? Who decides who dies and who liives? Tough questions. No good answers that I can see.

The storms have arrived in Fla and I am signing off ! Before I get blown off!!!

roxannekkb · Feb 22, 2003

To Mish1-- "As far as the "mistake" that was made, yes, it was tragic, but she may well have rejected her organs even if they were matched" is ridiculous. THEY WERE THE WRONG TYPE!! I would say that adds a little problem in addition to the risks already present, wouldn't you?!!"

Excuse me, but people do reject organs that are closely matched. If you don't agree, then you better go and educate yourself on transplants. And yes, having the wrong blood type certainly compounded the problem, but the fact remains, hundreds of people do reject perfectly good organs. Sorry if that fact doesn't fall into your realm, and you consider it "ridiculous".

"Healthcare SHOULD NOT be based on whether someone is a citizen of this country, and it is true that many die while waiting for a transplant, but does that mean that a non-US citizen has no right if they come up on the list?? I guess I don't understand that mentality. "

I have no idea where that came from. I didn't even mention anything about it. I stated that improving healthcare in other nations is the best way of going about it--nothing about denying anyone care. You seem to read deeply between the lines.

"Are you saying this because she is from Mexico? "

I can't even think of anything to comment on that remark. It is too absurd for me to even acknowledge. What it seems, Misha1, is that you distort everything that is written. You have taken my comments, which made no mention at all of anyone being denied care, and twisted them into some sort of strange and racist remarks--anti-Mexican remarks, I should say. I merely commented that I couldn't understand why you didn't think it would greatly help people if healthcare in their own countries was improved. That is certainly a better option than having to travel abroad, don't you think? Don't you think Jesica's family would have preferred to stay in their own home, rather than paying a smuggler to get them across the border?

Improving healthcare in developing nations will go a long way in improving health and well being of the populations. But perhaps you think it is best if the whole world has to get on a boat, plane or whatever, and come to the U.S.? Give up their jobs, leave their families, lose their homes--just to get healthcare?

I'm not really sure what message you're trying to send out. But whatever it is, attacking people on this forum for things that were never said is certainly not the way to speak your piece.

SharonH, RN · Feb 22, 2003

Susy, to be perfectly honest it doesn't bother me one bit. Non-Americans are limited to receiving only 5% of transplant operations anyway, and as far as I am concerned the lives that are being saved are human lives, not foreigners. It's too bad that so many cannot see that. Now the greater question that disturbs me is why aren't there more organ donations? I think that is a dilemna that deserves far greater attention. My uncle was fortunate enough to receive a kidney transplant back in the 80's which he ultimately rejected after a couple of years, but for those couple of years he was like a new man and I for one am grateful that he had that chance.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Feb 22, 2003

Originally posted by wv_nurse 2003
In my opinion (my opinion only) people come to the US for transplants because we are felt to have the most experience, the best qualified physicians, and perhaps better success (no I can't back this up with statistics--just speaking on thought). I also think that because we are the "land of opportunity" and have an open door boarder--they stand a better chance here than in their native countries because we base transplant priority on NEED, not money (although I am not convinced this is entirely true--but its what we say)--just my thoughts

That is probably a true statement. But should they be allowed on the list the same as the rest of us?

Tweety, BSN, RN · Feb 22, 2003

Sally, I wasn't questioning the facts and what IS their policy.

I was asking should it be their policy not to acknowledge origin and move people up without regard to citizenship?

Our hospital does organ donations, and I worked beside the unit that took care of the patients prior to surgery, and gave support. It can be quite a challenging experience.

ktwlpn, LPN · Feb 22, 2003

I don't believe an alien(legal or illegal) should be permitted to buy themselves an organ transplant-getting an organ while tax paying citizen of this country dies.....Furthermore-all those folks on death row could really give something back to society by becoming donors-forget the electic chair or the lethal injection-strap them to the gurney and wheel them to the OR.....And while we are at it let's do away with "life sentences" and make them all donors...Crisis solved.... :idea:

sunnygirl272 · Feb 22, 2003

Originally posted by ktwlpn
I don't believe an alien(legal or illegal) should be permitted to buy themselves an organ transplant-getting an organ while tax paying citizen of this country dies.....Furthermore-all those folks on death row could really give something back to society by becoming donors-forget the electic chair or the lethal injection-strap them to the gurney and wheel them to the OR.....And while we are at it let's do away with "life sentences" and make them all donors...Crisis solved....

WOOT....dunno if you were being snarky or serious...but i think it's a rocking idea....it'll never hapen...but it rocks....

shay · Feb 22, 2003

Well, my dh refuses to be an organ donor because he doesn't want his organs going to criminals and illegal aliens instead of law-abiding citizens. Just a little food for thought.

I myself, while I understand a parent's drive to do anything and everything for their kid, do not agree with giving illegal aliens organ transplants unless they pay for them out of pocket.

ITA with whomever said we help out other countries way too much. No doubt.

BadBird, BSN, RN · Feb 23, 2003

I have less problems with foreigners obtaining transplants than alcoholics getting new livers, I don't think they deserve. We are told that the organs are given to the sickest but I have a few friends who work on transplant units and they say money talks and it is usually foreigners that pay the big bucks for them, remember how hospitals run, for profit first. I hope and pray that I never have to face a transplant issue with anyone in my family.

baseline · Feb 23, 2003

Or people getting open-heart who won't quite smoking.........talk about raising the cost of health care....but thats another thread!!!

fergus51 · Feb 23, 2003

Are you all putting illegal aliens in the same boat with legal immigrants? Personally, I see no difference in legal immigrants and Canadian born (or American born) citizens. If they came here legally and work legally and pay taxes, they are contributing as much, and sometimes more, than any other citizen born here. I do have a problem with illegal immigrants getting transplants here.

That said: Americans and Canadians DO go to other countries to get organs, specifically the live donor organs like kidneys. They go to Asia and buy them. Not any better than illegal aliens taking ours IMHO. It is immoral and taints the whole organ transplant issue.

fergus51 · Feb 23, 2003

Oh and in case Susy brings it up I am not at all biased being a foreign born American citizen or anything;) LOL!:roll